Our Relationship with God

[Anddenex]

52 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

How did we not exist prior to God? In the Book of Abraham, God didn’t organize us as non-existent beings, he organized us as “intelligences.” We were already classed as intelligences prior to His involvement. 

And what is the difference between natural laws and the laws of nature? Seem to be the same thing to me.

Spiritual laws are natural laws, and spiritual laws exist without nature.  I believe you can answer your own question with that statement; however, in this sense it is most likely semantic we are arguing here. We have spiritual and temporal/physical laws, both of which are natural, but one only deals with nature.

I believe you are misrepresenting the Book of Abraham. He organized, brought us together, as intelligences, not that "he organized us "as" intelligences.

Here are the two phrases in the Book of Abraham, "I came down in the beginning in the midst of all the intelligences thou hast seen." This doesn't mean "he organized us as intelligences." It would be similar to a father saying, and I came down among my children.

Here is the other in the Book of Abraham, "Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones." Nothing here indicates what you are describing. There were many of the noble and great ones among the intelligences, God's spirit children, and he organized or gathered us together for a meeting. In this meeting we are informed, "And the Lord said: Whom shall I send?" We are given a different explanation to the assembly gathered where Christ was chosen, as God always knew he would be chosen, as our Savior. This isn't describing an event of God "organizing us as" intelligences into spirits.

If God is eternal, and intelligences are eternal, how then did we exist prior to God? How does something eternal exist prior to something that is also eternal? The question is a fallacy.

All things physical are patterned after the spiritual.

[Traveler]

@clbent04

I have determined our relationship with G-d is based in covenant but governed by the following principles:

. G-d does not do for us what we can do for ourselves.

. G-d does do for us what we cannot do for ourselves.

. G-d does not do anything to us that is for our eternal detriment.

. G-d does do for us that which is for our eternal benefit.

. G-d will not do anything for us without our covenant approval.

 

The covenant promises we make with G-d, although vague is quite simple:

. To love him as he loves us.

. To love others as we would ourselves.

 

The primary attribute of love is sacrifice.  In short, without sacrifice there is no love – love demands sacrifice.

Concerning knowledge of good and evil – The knowledge of evil can only come from the experience of death – death is the consequence or esence of evil.  There are two elements of death: 1. The separation of spirit from physical (we call physical death).  2. Separation of spirit (intelligence) from divine light and truth (we call this spiritual death) - spiritual death is when covenant relationship with G-d is broken.

The knowledge of good can only come from the experience of being saved from death (evil) through a divine atonement (act of ultimate sacrifice or love).

 

G-d is an eternal being - as are we - there has never been a moment that we were uninfluenced by G-d - and there never will be.  Likewise there has never been a time G-d has not been aware of us and never will be. 

 

The Traveler

Edited January 3, 2018 by Traveler