Movie: Character with deep powers of persuasion

[Sunday21]

Movie: Character with deep powers of persuasion

Dear Forum: I was discussing job opportunities with one of my students. People who lead Health and Safety Operations at Plants are paid large amounts of money here. I was discussing the type of personality required with the student. In this job, you need to impress on factory employees the need to wear Personal Protective Equipment and to obey safety regulations without swearing or raising your voice. Does anyone know of a Movie or TV character with this level of conviction? I am somewhat hampered because I do not watch Xrated movies. Does anyone know of such a character? I have met H&S managers with this level of conviction but I can't produce them for this student. I thought of Snape in Harry Potter but I am not sure that this conveys what I am looking for.

Any ideas? Thank you!

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Movie: Character with deep powers of persuasion

Dear Forum: I was discussing job opportunities with one of my students. People who lead Health and Safety Operations at Plants are paid large amounts of money here. I was discussing the type of personality required with the student. In this job, you need to impress on factory employees the need to wear Personal Protective Equipment and to obey safety regulations without swearing or raising your voice. Does anyone know of a Movie or TV character with this level of conviction? I am somewhat hampered because I do not watch Xrated movies. Does anyone know of such a character? I have met H&S managers with this level of conviction but I can't produce them for this student. I thought of Snape in Harry Potter but I am not sure that this conveys what I am looking for.

Any ideas? Thank you!

"Level of conviction"  I'm not sure what you're referring to.  Conviction to not raise their voice?  Huh?

[Guest]

If I understand you right, you can look at the beginnings of speeches.  But they tend to raise their voices at the ends to give a rallying cry.

Kenneth Branaugh - St. Crispin's day speech (Henry V).

Bill Pullman - President's Speech (Independence Day).

Ed Harris - We've never lost an American in Space (Apollo 13).  On top of that you can look at Nixon's speech about the return of the astronauts.

Orson wells & Richard Burton (two different versions)- Gettysburg Address.

Sylvester Stallone - Rocky Balboa (Rocky VI).  Speech to his son about getting hit and keep going.

Kurt Russell -- Go out there and take it (Miracle)

Will Smith -- Authentic Swing (Legend of Bagger Vance)

Robert Duvall - What every boy needs to know about being a man (Secondhand Lions)

Denzel Washington - Take the field (Remember the Titans)

Denzel Washington - Remember Gettysburg (Remember the Titans)

[Sunday21]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

"Level of conviction"  I'm not sure what you're referring to.  Conviction to not raise their voice?  Huh?

Dear @Carborendum I am so sorry! I see how much work that you put into your answer and I can see that I was very unclear!

I am trying to explain to a student how a Health and Safety manager can, by the sheer force of their personality, backed up by the company, impress on the errant employee, that said employee must change their behavior. My students are looking for jobs and Health and Safety is an option...but if the students do not feel comfortable firmly reprimanding factory workers then H&S is not an option. Managers in my legal jurisdiction are not allowed to yell or swear at employees but as the same time, they have to control employees' behavior. Tough GiG.

I know what you mean about:

Kenneth Branaugh - St. Crispin's day speech (Henry V).

Bill Pullman - President's Speech (Independence Day).

These people are inspiring but what about situations where managers need to convey an undertone of menace?. 

There is a scene in Sweeney Todd in which Alan Richman tells off a cannibalistic barber but I can't find a clip. Hmm. I may need to demonstrate!

 

[anatess2]

2 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

I do not watch Xrated movies.

Errrmmm... neither do I?

 

2 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

Movie: Character with deep powers of persuasion

Any ideas? Thank you!

Neil Armstrong in the movie First Man.

Professor X in the movie X-Men and also X-Men United.

 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2018 by anatess2

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Dear @Carborendum I am so sorry! I see how much work that you put into your answer and I can see that I was very unclear!

I am trying to explain to a student how a Health and Safety manager can, by the sheer force of their personality, backed up by the company, impress on the errant employee, that said employee must change their behavior. My students are looking for jobs and Health and Safety is an option...but if the students do not feel comfortable firmly reprimanding factory workers then H&S is not an option. Managers in my legal jurisdiction are not allowed to yell or swear at employees but as the same time, they have to control employees' behavior. Tough GiG.

I know what you mean about:

Kenneth Branaugh - St. Crispin's day speech (Henry V).

Bill Pullman - President's Speech (Independence Day).

These people are inspiring but what about situations where managers need to convey an undertone of menace?. 

There is a scene in Sweeney Todd in which Alan Richman tells off a cannibalistic barber but I can't find a clip. Hmm. I may need to demonstrate!

I'll go two ways with this.

1) If they could try to "inspire" compliance rather than threaten into compliance, that might be a better road to go down.  Robert Duvall's speech in Secondhand Lions is perfect.  So are Denzel Washington's speeches in Remember the Titans.

2) If you want menace in quiet and subtle tones try some Chow Yun Fat movies.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, anatess2 said:

Errrmmm... neither do I?

Yeah, I'm not sure where she was going with that.

[anatess2]

1 minute ago, Carborendum said:

2) If you want menace in quiet and subtle tones try some Chow Yun Fat movies.

DEFINITELY!  Perfect movie character for the OP is Li Mu Bai in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon.

 

In the Harry Potter World... Dumbledore in Sorcerer's Stone and Chamber of Secrets.

[anatess2]

More from the Chinese Martial Arts movie genre:

Ip Man in Grandmaster Ip Man (although this one is rated R because of World War II scenes and Ip Man breaking skulls - you might think this would disqualify him from the OP's criteria but I don't think so.  Ip Man broke skulls in the middle of the war.  But, his true character is that of a pacifist left with no other option.).

Edited November 7, 2018 by anatess2

[Sunday21]

@anatess2 and @Carborendum

Thanks so much! I will look into  Li Mu Bai in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon and Chow Yun Fat. They may be just the thing! I was mentioning that I do not watch R movies because I miss quite a few popular movies due to this rule!

Thanks again!

[anatess2]

10 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

@anatess2 and @Carborendum

Thanks so much! I will look into  Li Mu Bai in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon and Chow Yun Fat. They may be just the thing! I was mentioning that I do not watch R movies because I miss quite a few popular movies due to this rule!

Thanks again!

I probably should put this here:

SPOILER ALERT!

 

 

 

Ok, there are 2 characters in Crouching Tiger that worked towards persuading the recalcitrant child, Jen Yu:  Li Mu Bai and Yu Shu Lien.  Li Mu Bai did not succeed in this endeavor because he got killed by Jade Fox (Jen's bad influence).  Shu Lien, working with Li Mu Bai did not really have the same approach to Jen as Mu Bai did and she shows her frustration at the end of her patience in one of her unsuccessful attempts.  But, after Mu Bai's death, Shu Lien adopted Mu Bai's approach which eventually brought Jen around.

Edited November 7, 2018 by anatess2

[zil]

So, as you may know, I work in a microbiology lab.  The lab contains bacteria, viruses, toxins, dangerous chemicals of a wide variety (solid, liquid, and gas), some radioactive stuff, human tissues being tested, and sometimes animal blood (perhaps other animal tissues, not sure).  Also, some testing involves heat that will badly burn you, and very sharp implements in the form of blades, scissors, and needles.

Clearly, PPE (Personal Protective Equipment) is important when one is in the lab.

I don't recall anyone yelling or anything akin to it.  Compliance is maintained as follows:

* Training: this includes documents and presentations which present the facts (it might help that part of new employee training is to either go get vaccinated for Hepatitis or sign a waiver acknowledging that you understand the risks of not getting it).  It also includes amusing videos made by lab employees showing the dangers and why one wants to avoid the dangers.

* Training is repeated annually or biannually, depending on the training, which includes a quiz and potentially hands on training and sign-off by a more senior person.

* PPE is easily available and employees do not have to pay for damaged, new, or extra PPE.

* There are eyewash stations and showers at intervals through the lab - in the hallway, no stall, just a shower head and handle and next to it an eyewash basin.  Really, every time you walk by them and remember the training, such as removing contaminated clothing - right there in the hallway for the world to see - it's sort of a nice subtle reminder that you want that clothing to be PPE, not your shirt or pants.

* There is a safety committee who may remind you if they see you without PPE, your peers will do the same (pretty hard to find yourself alone in the lab), and auditors (internal, regulatory, and customer) may be wandering the lab at any time, and if you are caught by one of them, it's not a friendly reminder, it's a warning, you have to redo all the safety training, and after n warnings, you get fired.

* The culture is still a "family" culture - people know that management want them to wear PPE not because management don't want to get in trouble, but because management don't want you to have to suffer the consequences of inhaling powderized cow brain or bone, or getting a human tissue sample smack in the eye, or stabbing yourself with a needle that just dispensed some bacteria-infected media, or whatever.

That last one is, I think, the most important - if people believe you care about them, not "the rules", they are more willing to listen to you.  Also, if it's a group effort, people will go along with the group.  So your students need to be able to sincerely care about others' safety and communicate that in a personal way.  Writing people up is easy, convincing them you care about them is hard.

Edited November 7, 2018 by zil

[Sunday21]

@zil Excellent! Very good lessons! Your lab sounds like a caring place. I bet the ‘amusing videos’ are good! 

Edited November 8, 2018 by Sunday21

[Guest]

@Sunday21,

I spent some time thinking about this.  I believe the concept you're looking for is "gravity".  You need someone who can convey a sense of gravity to the topic of safety and use of PPE.

You're looking in the wrong place, my dear.  The best example of gentle pursuasion by using a grave tone would be Elder Boyd K. Packer.  Unfortunately, not every speech he gave had gravity.  But when he did, it was profound.  I'll have to do some research to dig some stuff up.  But I don't know if you want to tell your protege' to listen to Elder Packer.

[anatess2]

16 hours ago, zil said:

That last one is, I think, the most important - if people believe you care about them, not "the rules", they are more willing to listen to you.  

 

13 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

@zil Excellent! Very good lessons! Your lab sounds like a caring place. I bet the ‘amusing videos’ are good! 

 

This is perfectly illustrated in Li Mu Bai's character.

[Sunday21]

On 11/8/2018 at 6:51 AM, Carborendum said:

@Sunday21,

I spent some time thinking about this.  I believe the concept you're looking for is "gravity".  You need someone who can convey a sense of gravity to the topic of safety and use of PPE.

You're looking in the wrong place, my dear.  The best example of gentle pursuasion by using a grave tone would be Elder Boyd K. Packer.  Unfortunately, not every speech he gave had gravity.  But when he did, it was profound.  I'll have to do some research to dig some stuff up.  But I don't know if you want to tell your protege' to listen to Elder Packer.

Yes. Spot on! Gravity is exactly the thing. I know what you mean about Boyd K Packer. He is the man! 

[zil]

On 11/7/2018 at 3:42 PM, zil said:

That last one is, I think, the most important - if people believe you care about them, not "the rules", they are more willing to listen to you.  Also, if it's a group effort, people will go along with the group.  So your students need to be able to sincerely care about others' safety and communicate that in a personal way.  Writing people up is easy, convincing them you care about them is hard.

I don't know if it will help, @Sunday21, but here's another story.  (Skip to the last paragraph if you can't stand another story.)

Background

Where I work, we test medical devices made by other companies to see if there's bacteria or toxins on them (basically).  This can be anything from a surgical glove to a pin they'll put in your broken bone, to sterile instruments (e.g. scalpel or forceps), to pacemakers, to the packaging on sterile supplies (e.g. does the packaging keep out icky stuff and last as long as it should).

One regulatory requirement is that everything be documented - and here's the unusual standard - to the point that someone else could take that documentation and repeat what you did and get the same results!  (If you think about that for a while, you'll realize that level of documentation implies whopping tons of things - like software and OS versions as well as code printouts, or, in the lab, that I used this kind of tool that was sterilized in this sterilization lot which had these parameters, etc.  The person should be able to go out and get all the same things you used, do all the things you did, and thereby get the same results you got.)

Our Story

In addition to all the safety stuff, there's lots of other formal training (it's supposed to be required only if it applies to your job, but much of what I'm required to take really doesn't relate to my job), and lots and lots of paperwork (required by regulation) for things the normal human would consider insane.  There are times when filling out the paperwork on a software change takes longer than making and testing the change!  When I first started working at this company, I hated both the training and the paperwork.  But they were paying me to do what I really wanted to do, and the owners were members of the Church and they understood the idea of work-life balance (i.e. I didn't have to work more than 40 hours / week), so I put up with it.

Then one day, I found my reason for the training and the paperwork.  This reason was never directly mentioned by any company or industry representative, though it does relate indirectly to the company mission statement.  What I decided was that I didn't care about what the government wanted (per se), nor about the company's profitability (never did care about that), nor about our customers' (who were all businesses) success, nor even about the people who would buy the products.  Those people were carrying out their business, and they would worry about it for themselves, not my concern.

Rather, I realized that one day, the products we test would get used on a human who was at the very least in a place he didn't want to be (at a doctor's, in an ambulance, in a hospital).  It could be that he's having the worst day of his life.  It could be that his life is ending.

It wasn't enough that I wanted to do my job well enough that nothing I was involved in could make his experience worse (that was always a given in my mind regardless of what work I was doing - integrity required me to do as well as I could and to insist that those around me at least live up to a minimum standard).  I had to document my training (and so did everyone else) and my work for that person.  Because I care deeply about not making that person's experience any worse.

Right now, you're thinking that person doesn't care, he's not even thinking about that sort of thing.  But what if something goes horribly wrong?  Does he not have the right to know why?  Does he not have good reason to want to know whose fault it is (if anyone's)?  We get audited.  That's normal.  Auditors review the paperwork I fill out.  In theory, that paperwork could be subpoenaed by this guy's lawyers.  They have a right to know exactly what I did so that they know that's not where things went wrong, and they can move on.  If my paperwork is vague or incomplete, now they have a source of doubt.  In my mind, they deserve certainty.

Once I had my reason, it was easy for me to take command of both the procedure and the paperwork, and change them for the better, and use them to accomplish useful things, not just for the patient, but for me too.  The paperwork wasn't a nuisance; it became a tool to accomplish my purposes.

TL;DR: / Conclusion

The short version is that your students need to find their own good reason for the rules, to believe in them not because they're the rules, but because the rules accomplish something desirable - something they care deeply about.  Then they will own the rules, improve them for everyone, and teach and enforce them with passion.

Edited November 9, 2018 by zil

[Sunday21]

@zil What fascinating and valuable work you do! Good for you! 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

Yes. Spot on! Gravity is exactly the thing. I know what you mean about Boyd K Packer. He is the man! 

Here's a story to tell about safety.  When I heard it in a safety meeting at work, it was told as a true story.  I don't know if it is.  But it's believable. (Forgive me if I've already told this story).

Quote

An aircraft carrier was about to receive some aircraft.  It is absolutely imperative that the deck be completely free of debris.  Otherwise, the aircraft wheels could cause it to become a deadly projectile.

As the crew was doing a check of all their materials, a crewman realized he was missing his wrench.  He immediately reported it to the deck chief.  The chief organized a dragnet crew to look for the missing wrench.  In the meantime, the fighters were told that they had to stay up in the air and circle until they had cleared the deck.

The captain took notice and called down to the deck to ask what the problem was.  The chief informed him that a crewman had misplaced his wrench and they had to find it.  The captain said,"He did, did he?  Well, when you're done have him come up to see me on the bridge."

The dragnet eventually found the wrench.  The fighters were cleared for landing.  The chief told the crewman that the captain wanted to see him about the wrench fiasco.  The crewman braced himself as he went to receive his sentence.

He reported to the bridge and the captain with as much courage and composure as he could muster.  The captain asked in a tone loud enough for the whole bridge to hear,"So, are you the crewman who kept my multi-million dollar aircraft in the air because you misplaced your wrench?"

"Yes, sir." (beginning to lose composure).

The captain reached out his hand and said,"Thank you, son." (again just loud enough for the entire bridge to hear) "Nothing is more important than the safety of my ship and her crew.  Misplacing your wrench was just a mistake.  Anyone could have made it.  But reporting it showed integrity, and concern for the safety of the rest of the crew.  I want every person under my command to act just as you did when there is a question of safety."

 

[Sunday21]

@Carborendum Thank you Carb! That is a deeply moving story! It helps to demonstrate the importance of safety!