DIRTY JOBS

[Guest]

You're all familiar with Mike Rowe.  If you're not, you obviously have no flair for the working class man.

I recently had a talk with my electrician and my plumber.  They both saw a sad development in the future of the trades.

1) Fewer and fewer of the rising generation are going into the trades.
2) Of those that do go into the trades, few ever pass the license exam.
3) Many of those that do pass the exam are dishonest.

The electrician is a grandfather now.  His children and grandchildren have no interest in picking up his trade.  And he said that in the past 10 to 15 years he's tried to train his workers to be able to take over for him when he retired.  He created his own special test that covered what he considered the most common mistakes of electricians.  After all his training of his workers, he remembered that only one guy got a 100% on his test.  But even with his success, that guy thought that electrician work just wasn't for him.  Just imagine that no one wants a turn key business that's giving him a 6-figure income while only working part of each week.  If he has a full schedule, he can make over a quarter million -- possibly even half a million a year.  And all you have to do is put in the time until the old guy retires (which he's itching to do).

The plumber was the son of the owner of the plumbing company. So, he was happy to have learned from a master.  And he was happy to continue in the family business.  From what I can tell, he's going to be good.  And he's going to be honest.  But they haven't been able to find anyone who wants to do this long term.

People are crying out there that there is no work or no work for good wages.  Yet they simply don't do what needs to be done to get a good job.  While I'll admit that the electrician's license exam is pretty tough, it still isn't rocket science.  Someone with average intelligence and average education could pass it with proper study.  But so many don't.

The people who offer vocational training have told the electrician that it is rare that they even fill up all their classes.  Of 100 that start the class, only 10 complete it.  Of the 10 that complete the class, five will actually go through the motions of taking the exam.  Of those five, only one will study for it and pass.  Then of those that pass, about half will give up the profession in five years.

How sad.  Is this society so arrogant and snobbish that we're not willing to do work like this for a wage higher than that of a senior engineer?  Yes, I make more than any staff engineer I know of.  And he makes more than I do.  He had to tell me his hourly rate because he's billing me for it.

We're losing the trades.  And it is difficult to find one that is competent and trustworthy.

[Just_A_Guy]

This is one area where I’d agree with your father-in-law (how is he, by the way?) in blaming the public schools.  I remember very vividly various teachers and school staff who talked me out of taking woodshop (because only students of a “certain caliber” took those sorts of classes) and dissuaded me from applying to my state maritime academy preparatory to becoming a ship’s officer (because given my grades, that life didn’t suit my “potential”).

Educators, having chosen a white-collar career and generally appreciating academia for its own sake, will naturally have some antipathy to the tradesmen who don’t share their own interests; and in my experience they don’t do much to conceal that antipathy from their impressionable pupils.  Moreover, the simple fact is that many of the trades don’t require a lot of academic book learning; and if there’s less demand for academia, then academic educators lose some measure of job security.  

[zil]

46 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

This is one area where I’d agree with your father-in-law ...in blaming the public schools.

Amen, brother!

47 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Moreover, the simple fact is that many of the trades don’t require a lot of academic book learning;

Which is why those who want it should be able to get apprenticeship style training younger, while still in secondary school.  They still need basics, and they need strong skills in some of those basics, but they also need very different basics, and I think it's demonic not to offer that option.

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

This is one area where I’d agree with your father-in-law (how is he, by the way?)

Unfortunately, both he and his wife are beginning to feel the sting of their years.  Far from what we'd call "failing health".  But they have both been in the hospital for operations in the past couple of years.  They're ok.  But it seems they are on the downward slope.

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

This is one area where I’d agree with your father-in-law (how is he, by the way?) in blaming the public schools.  I remember very vividly various teachers and school staff who talked me out of taking woodshop (because only students of a “certain caliber” took those sorts of classes) and dissuaded me from applying to my state maritime academy preparatory to becoming a ship’s officer (because given my grades, that life didn’t suit my “potential”).

Educators, having chosen a white-collar career and generally appreciating academia for its own sake, will naturally have some antipathy to the tradesmen who don’t share their own interests; and in my experience they don’t do much to conceal that antipathy from their impressionable pupils.  Moreover, the simple fact is that many of the trades don’t require a lot of academic book learning; and if there’s less demand for academia, then academic educators lose some measure of job security.  

You know, this has a dash of "conspiracy theory" to it.  But it is one that makes a lot of sense.

1) It simply doesn't make sense that the vast majority of the population is supposed to have a classical education.
2) They take over academia and change the curriculum to a lower level full of more touchy feely ideologies than the classical intellectual philosophies.
3) They push for public funds to higher learning so liberals can have government funding of their ideology so they don't have to pay for the indoctrination of the next generation.
4) They tell all the students to NOT go into practical fields using practical means to get training.  Go to college and get a useless SJW degree while saddling yourself with debt that you will never get out of, so you become a slave to academia and the government.
5) Then to fill the need for the abandoned trades, we bring in more illegal immigrants to do a bad job and steal from the people who hire them and eventually continue the liberal impetus to perpetuate this system.

I didn't realize that the loss of trades was part of this overall agenda.  But it really does seem to be so.

[zil]

Whether it's a plan or just arrogant ignorance, the effect on the rest of us is the same.

[Colirio]

2 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

 

I didn't realize that the loss of trades was part of this overall agenda.  But it really does seem to be so.

 

I think you give those conspirators too much credit. I have found they rarely look to the long term consequences of their choices. 

 

 

As to the original post, Mike Rowe made some EXCELLENT points in this article.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Colirio said:

I think you give those conspirators too much credit. I have found they rarely look to the long term consequences of their choices.

Well, after reading Rules for Radicals, The Little Red Book, and The Communist Manifesto, I don't know how one would not see that long term pattern unfolding.

[Just_A_Guy]

29 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

You know, this has a dash of "conspiracy theory" to it.  But it is one that makes a lot of sense.

1) It simply doesn't make sense that the vast majority of the population is supposed to have a classical education.
2) They take over academia and change the curriculum to a lower level full of more touchy feely ideologies than the classical intellectual philosophies.
3) They push for public funds to higher learning so liberals can have government funding of their ideology so they don't have to pay for the indoctrination of the next generation.
4) They tell all the students to NOT go into practical fields using practical means to get training.  Go to college and get a useless SJW degree while saddling yourself with debt that you will never get out of, so you become a slave to academia and the government.
5) Then to fill the need for the abandoned trades, we bring in more illegal immigrants to do a bad job and steal from the people who hire them and eventually continue the liberal impetus to perpetuate this system.

I didn't realize that the loss of trades was part of this overall agenda.  But it really does seem to be so.

I don’t know that I’d call it a deliberate conspiracy (especially once you get to point #5) as much as a manifestation of “birds of a feather”.  But as @zil says, the effect is the same either way.  

[Iggy]

Back in the 90's [I was 38 to 46 yo] when I was working at a hardware store, my departments to order for, stock and assist the customers was plumbing, electrical and sporting goods. After two years, my forte became electrical followed by plumbing and I detested sporting goods.

In my third year working there, this guy who owned a vacation home in my town told me that he was the guy who was a teacher/professor in one of the colleges near us and he taught those who wished to become electricians. He told me that I had the flair for it and he would sponsor me. NOT loan me the money, but pay for all my education, training, etc.

I talked it over with my husband [then husband] and he totally vetoed it. I would have to quit my job, live near the college and come home on week-ends. I had the same opportunity to apprentice under (with?) one of our county's BEST plumbers. Would still have to quit my job, BUT I wouldn't have to move. BUT being a plumber really is a dirty job. I have claustrophobia and cannot be crawling under homes. Again, my then husband vetoed that.

In hindsight, I really wish I had pursued becoming an electrician. In 1999 I separated from then husband, quit my job at the hardware store, went to work for a grocery store. At the age of 48 I enrolled in a federally funded program that re-educated me. Took three days worth of tests and discovered that I had the smarts to pursue several different career paths. The one that peaked my interest was a type of secretary. I took Microsoft Office course online - aced it by the way. Then met second [and last hubby], married and moved 1,332 miles away. There I hired on with an independent insurance agent and excelled as an Agribusiness CSR.

Now, back to the fed. funded program. My tests showed that I would and should pursue the legal system. I didn't want to be a lawyer - but being a para legal, that felt like it could really work for me. Yet I went after the Microsoft Office - - Word, Excel, Power Point. Had I remained in Oregon - my advisor would have told me that BOTH work well together.

Anyway, second husband kept telling me that through his job at ASU I could take any course at ASU for free. Pursue anything my heart desired. Become a para legal. Or become a Private Investigator - I excel at finding things/people [both alive and dead]. I didn't do any of that.

 

[anatess2]

So... my Filipino family are big on college degrees.  It's a tradition.  So parents usually pay for their kids' college so kids finish at least a Bachelor's degree.  The nurses are not just RN's they're BSN's, the musicians touring with their band for a living has a degree in something, even the cousin who runs a cockfighting ring has a degree in something.

So I'm currently in a conundrum because my 2nd son doesn't want to go to "regular college".  He wants to go to Colorado Trade School and complete their gunsmithing program.  His dad and I tried to convince him to aim for the Firearms Engineering program instead under the Mechanical Engineering umbrella and he's saying it's a waste of time and money when he can get exactly what he wants to do in 60 weeks at the Trade School.  This kid is in the IB program in high school!  I asked him, I thought that's why you want to be in IB so you'll have an easier time in college!  And he said, no, he's in IB because he'll learn more.  Well, my family already thinks I'm going to hell anyway for turning Mormon, now raising my kid to not want to go to college... the horror.  But whatever.  He's only in Sophomore year.  Things could still change.  This is my kid who wanted to be a Civil Engineer before he got his pistol and rifle merit badges.

[Just_A_Guy]

20 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

This is my kid who wanted to be a Civil Engineer before he got his pistol and rifle merit badges.

See, THIS is why the Church had to drop the Scouting program.  

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

So... my Filipino family are big on college degrees.  It's a tradition.  So parents usually pay for their kids' college so kids finish at least a Bachelor's degree.  The nurses are not just RN's they're BSN's, the musicians touring with their band for a living has a degree in something, even the cousin who runs a cockfighting ring has a degree in something.

So I'm currently in a conundrum because my 2nd son doesn't want to go to "regular college".  He wants to go to Colorado Trade School and complete their gunsmithing program.  His dad and I tried to convince him to aim for the Firearms Engineering program instead under the Mechanical Engineering umbrella and he's saying it's a waste of time and money when he can get exactly what he wants to do in 60 weeks at the Trade School.  This kid is in the IB program in high school!  I asked him, I thought that's why you want to be in IB so you'll have an easier time in college!  And he said, no, he's in IB because he'll learn more.  Well, my family already thinks I'm going to hell anyway for turning Mormon, now raising my kid to not want to go to college... the horror.  But whatever.  He's only in Sophomore year.  Things could still change.  This is my kid who wanted to be a Civil Engineer before he got his pistol and rifle merit badges.

Sounds like a kid with his head screwed on straight.  He knows exactly what he wants to do and he knows the quickest path to get there.  Why the push for a college degree other than family tradition?

I would think that the better argument for him is that gunsmithing doesn't pay much and the outlook for that profession is bleak.  There appear to be a LOT of independents that glut the field.  So, he'll have to be a master gunsmith, a master businessman, a master salesman, and an expert advertiser to make a good business of it.  If he's up to it, then what's the problem?

BTW, I'm disappointed he doesn't want to become an engineer.

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

See, THIS is why the Church had to drop the Scouting program.  

Our troop went on a campout where they were going to be shooting pistol, rifles, and shotguns.  They indicated the fee and asked all families who had guns to bring them.  The scoutmaster brought one rifle.  My boys brought two rifles, a shotgun, a pellet rifle, and two pistols.

When they arrived at the meetup point, everyone just stared at my boys.

When they arrived at the shooting location, they were my boys' best friends.  So, it appears we were the gun supply of the ward.  The scoutmaster didn't even bring ammunition for his rifle.  They shot until they ran out of all the ammo I had sent.  Grrrrr.

Edited November 21, 2018 by Guest

[anatess2]

19 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Sounds like a kid with his head screwed on straight.  He knows exactly what he wants to do and he knows the quickest path to get there.  Why the push for a college degree other than family tradition?

I would think that the better argument for him is that gunsmithing doesn't pay much and the outlook for that profession is bleak.  There appear to be a LOT of independents that glut the field.  So, he'll have to be a master gunsmith, a master businessman, a master salesman, and an expert advertiser to make a good business of it.  If he's up to it, then what's the problem?

It's, at least, a brighter prospect than his first plan - live off of marksmanship competitions prize money...

Anyway, this is his thinking... there are... I don't remember the numbers... x millions of firearms and only x thousands of gunsmiths... something something.... comes up to 29,000 firearms per gunsmith if you're just going for repair/maintenance.  He wants to do customization... something about some youtube channel he wants to run about the craziest way he can get a projectile to eject from a barrel and still hit the target, in the same manner that his older brother composes the craziest time measures to still count as music instead of noise.

What can I say, he's only 15.  He has wild ideas.

 

19 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

BTW, I'm disappointed he doesn't want to become an engineer.

I'm disappointed too!  I worked super hard on getting him proficient in math because I thought he wanted to be an engineer! 

 

In any case, just a couple years ago, I would have been one to say... NO WAY, JOSE.  You're going to university and that's the end of it!  I'm amazed that I'm actually considering not raising a fuss about this Trade School idea.

Edited November 21, 2018 by anatess2