The Law Of Chastity

[MorningStar]

I'm curious, what is a family friendly aisle at a Fred Meyer? I've never heard of that before.

It's the check-out line with no magazines.

[Sheelah]

Oh interesting. I'll have to check out my store and see if there are any like that! :)

[Jeny]

Sorry guys, I shouldn't have said anything. In fact I was banned from an LDS chat room a few years back by discussing this very subject. Back then, the girl wasn't my girlfriend and the age different was akward. I met her when she was 16, she's turning 20 on Saturday.

Some LDS on that chat room went so far as to call me a pedophile.

JS...I am praying for you.

[MorningStar]

Oh interesting. I'll have to check out my store and see if there are any like that! :)

There are at least four other grocery stores in my town and I'm going to bug them after Fred Meyer. Except Safeway. I've never liked Safeway. I hope you have something like that at your store. :)

[why me]

I agree. It's very hard to undo the damage and difficult to forgive yourself.

Forgiving oneself should be easy. God is merciful and when approached with a contrite heart, he is all forgiving. And if god is forgiving, we should all forgive ourselves for past transgressions. I do believe that god is an understanding parent, as those of us who are parents are understanding and forgiving of our own children, when they may do wrong. I believe that Heavenly Father is no different.

[why me]

Here's a quote from the lesson. Very powerful! This part is speaking on pornography:

I've decided to hand out comment cards from a few grocery stores at the end and we can request for disgusting magazines to be removed from our children's sight. That's a start. What are some other things you think we can do to fight it?

I think that we will need to clarify just what a disgusting magazine is. Pornography has invaded many magazines that would not be considered pornographic. For example, Cosmo has some pretty blatant headlines on its cover. And so, what exactly is a disgusting magazine? I know that porn magazines are disgusting but what else?

[Guest Iggy]

I think that we will need to clarify just what a disgusting magazine is. Pornography has invaded many magazines that would not be considered pornographic. For example, Cosmo has some pretty blatant headlines on its cover. And so, what exactly is a disgusting magazine? I know that porn magazines are disgusting but what else?

Cosmopolitan for one, and any of the mags that show women in scanty and immodest clothing.

[HiJolly]

We had the lesson in High Priest's group - we watched the Spiritual Crocodiles video and discussed it. I think maybe two sentences were read out of the manual, and the rest was discussion. Pretty normal for our Group.

HiJolly

[Jigglysaint]

I busted my girlfriend yesterday for wearing a revealing outfit that exposed more than I cared to see.

Heheheh, I said "bust"!

[Still_Small_Voice]

How did your lesson go MorningStar?

[Sheelah]

We had our lesson on it today. We must be a conservative group. We struggled to use the words to describe some of the wrong acts. In fact, the teacher couldn't even say the "M" word. Someone else had mentioned it and the teacher when she came to it, said "What Sister Soso said".

After hearing a little of what they talked about in Priestood, it would of been interesting to have access to each other classes and see how differently men and women talk about this.

[MorningStar]

Forgiving oneself should be easy. God is merciful and when approached with a contrite heart, he is all forgiving. And if god is forgiving, we should all forgive ourselves for past transgressions. I do believe that god is an understanding parent, as those of us who are parents are understanding and forgiving of our own children, when they may do wrong. I believe that Heavenly Father is no different.

Yes, it should be easy, but unfortunately many people beat themselves up for years over past sins.

I think that we will need to clarify just what a disgusting magazine is. Pornography has invaded many magazines that would not be considered pornographic. For example, Cosmo has some pretty blatant headlines on its cover. And so, what exactly is a disgusting magazine? I know that porn magazines are disgusting but what else?

I call Cosmo a disgusting magazine. It always features multiples headlines about sex and a woman showing off her cleavage on the cover. My son is seven and a very good reader. I don't want him reading things like, "10 naughty sex tricks", but they're right there in front of his face. Every single cover I have seen of theirs has had something about pleasing your man. "10 things guys wish you knew about sex". I don't like some stupid gossip magazines either. They should just get rid of all that crap! I don't want my kids learning that other people's suffering is entertainment or that the most important thing in life is sex or that they have to be sexy in order to be liked or valued.

How did your lesson go MorningStar?

I think it went pretty well! Thank you. I was stressing because there was so much material to cover and so little time, and I really wanted to make sure that the most important things were addressed. The women cracked up when I told them how I asked at Fred Meyer if they had considered putting up another Family Friendly check-out and the guy said I should fill out a comment card. I told the women, "So I got a bunch of them!" They seemed delighted by that idea and about my plans to form a huge line in the Family Friendly check-out and tell them we will only use that line when they offer to help us in another one." I told them I declare war on this stuff.

[MorningStar]

We had our lesson on it today. We must be a conservative group. We struggled to use the words to describe some of the wrong acts. In fact, the teacher couldn't even say the "M" word. Someone else had mentioned it and the teacher when she came to it, said "What Sister Soso said".

After hearing a little of what they talked about in Priestood, it would of been interesting to have access to each other classes and see how differently men and women talk about this.

Our women were very talkative today. I wasn't sure if anyone would want to comment much, so I had them answer a couple questions anonymously, fold their papers, and hand them in. I only had time to read a few of them, but they were very good and I was asked to type them all out and e-mail them to the secretary.

I was not shy today about saying masturbation. Once that quote passed by, I said, "I didn't really want to talk about this, but I feel like I have to. People are telling our kids that masturbation is normal, and natural, and healthy." One sister asked, "Who is?" Another sister chimed in, "The schools are. That's what they do." I said, "Yeah, when I was in junior high and high school, they were already encouraging us to masturbate and now it is even taught that it might help kids to not have sex as early." Well, I'm glad this sister knows this now because she has a son who is a deacon and he will be getting messages like this. Lately I have heard the opinion that women should do it because then they will know how their bodies work. We also talked about how the world justifies immorality - you have to try each other out to see if you're "sexually compatible".

I was a little nervous today because we had an investigator and I think this was the first Relief Society lesson she's had. I hope it wasn't too much of a shocker for her. Our lessons are usually about much more pleasant subjects.

My husband said in Elder's Quorum the whole lesson turned to Pornography and they were pretty quiet until the teenage investigator in the room said, "Sometimes I have a problem with it." Then everyone got talking. I wish everyone could talk openly about this stuff without fear of judgement because secrecy makes it worse and the spouses feel isolated because they're keeping their spouses' secret for them, yet they are so upset and withdraw because it's hard to hide the fact that something is wrong. We had a pornography fireside recently put on by Family Services and the sister who spoke said that if we could be open and non-judgemental in our quorums, 12 step groups probably wouldn't be necessary anymore, but for right now they are really needed. At the fireside (it was a regional one), this sister raised her hand and asked, "How long should a person wait for their spouse to stop looking at pornography?" The teacher said that it is up to that person to decide if it is something they can put up with. When it was over, the sister left crying. I felt so bad for her.

My husband said in EQ today, the teacher said how when he was a bachelor, he could spot a beautiful woman from a mile away and when he was newlywed, they went to the movies and as this beautiful woman walked by, his head turned and he watched her. He said, "Brethren, I paid for that for a long time." He's very open about his marital spats, the most known one being the time he bought his wife an Xbox for Mother's Day. That didn't go over too well ...

[19nazzy]

We had the lesson in High Priest's group - we watched the Spiritual Crocodiles video and discussed it. I think maybe two sentences were read out of the manual, and the rest was discussion. Pretty normal for our Group.

HiJolly

Hmmm, ours was almost completely the opposite. The majority of the lesson was read basically straight from the lesson and for the first 30 minutes, no one else spoke (which is completely unusual).

Ours was weird, when the teacher got to the part on Pornography he basically said: 'I'm not going to read through this but basically we are to watch what our minds think of.' Then as he was going to go on to the next section. 'I'm skipping this part on pornography because I don't have a problem with it (pornography that is) and I would hope none of you do.'

I went , basically thinking of all the stuff I have read from leaders and how this is one of the biggest widespread problems throughout the church. How could this be skipped over? Actually from the whole lesson I got the impression of how big a 'taboo' this stuff is, and how ridiculous it is. Why can't it be talked about? Have people actually thought that maybe one of the reasons this (chastity issues) are such a problem is because it is very rarely discussed in the church and outside the church we hear about how good it is? Of course it is going to be a draw to us if this is the way we treat it.

I wanted to express myself but being a youngin' I refrained.

[MorningStar]

Hmmm, ours was almost completely the opposite. The majority of the lesson was read basically straight from the lesson and for the first 30 minutes, no one else spoke (which is completely unusual).

Ours was weird, when the teacher got to the part on Pornography he basically said: 'I'm not going to read through this but basically we are to watch what our minds think of.' Then as he was going to go on to the next section. 'I'm skipping this part on pornography because I don't have a problem with it (pornography that is) and I would hope none of you do.'

I went , basically thinking of all the stuff I have read from leaders and how this is one of the biggest widespread problems throughout the church. How could this be skipped over? Actually from the whole lesson I got the impression of how big a 'taboo' this stuff is, and how ridiculous it is. Why can't it be talked about? Have people actually thought that maybe one of the reasons this (chastity issues) are such a problem is because it is very rarely discussed in the church and outside the church we hear about how good it is? Of course it is going to be a draw to us if this is the way we treat it.

I wanted to express myself but being a youngin' I refrained.

That is weird! People really need to talk about it and need to hear that any of them can be trapped and what to do if they have an addiction to it. Many men first got exposed to it when they were 7 or 8 and learned everything about sex on the playground. That's a recipe for disaster. We recently had "the talk" with our son so we could explain to him how special sex is before his friends tell him crudely and so we could teach him what pornography is and how to avoid it. A friend told me how babies are made in Kindergarten and between that and her showing me her parents' porn, I was quite disturbed by it. It would've been much better to hear it from my mom. I also think it's funny how people don't like to say "sex" in church. It's not a bad word. Some people can't even say the proper terms for parts of the anatomy without blushing.

I think I would've asked your teacher, "Would President Hinckley 'skip the part on porngraphy'? That makes no sense to me. There are probably several men in there who currently have a problem and need to feel uncomfortable as they listen to counsel against it so they will consider confessing. The reason why people don't like to talk about it is because it is a problem for so many of them.

[Guest Iggy]

I think I would've asked your teacher, "Would President Hinckley 'skip the part on porngraphy'? That makes no sense to me. There are probably several men in there who currently have a problem and need to feel uncomfortable as they listen to counsel against it so they will consider confessing. The reason why people don't like to talk about it is because it is a problem for so many of them.

My first thought was - Oh, perhaps the teacher is guilty of watching porn and talking about it in class is so way out of his comfort zone.

[MorningStar]

My first thought was - Oh, perhaps the teacher is guilty of watching porn and talking about it in class is so way out of his comfort zone.

I have to admit, I thought that too. A man who looks at pornography doesn't want to preach against it and feel like a hypocrite, or for his sweating to give him away. Best to move on to something else to avoid that.

[Still_Small_Voice]

We haven't had our lesson on the Law of Chastity yet. We are going to have it next Sunday. I was just talking to my Elder's Quorum president and he said that the lesson seemed too negative. He told me he was going to use the lesson but implement other materials as well. I will tell you how it goes.

[MorningStar]

We haven't had our lesson on the Law of Chastity yet. We are going to have it next Sunday. I was just talking to my Elder's Quorum president and he said that the lesson seemed too negative. He told me he was going to use the lesson but implement other materials as well. I will tell you how it goes.

I was told I wasn't supposed to stray from the manual at all and I don't think the lesson seemed too negative. I think it is just a very serious subject and very difficult for anyone to hear who is struggling and isn't ready to change or confess. I think the majority of our lessons are very encouraging, but this one is a wake-up call which is sometimes needed. There is a time to gently nudge someone along and a time to shake them and get them to wake up. We and our children are in spiritual danger and we need to fight the evil around us.

I received some anonymous written comments from the women. Most of them knew of someone who had lost their marriage because of pornography and one sister said her friend found out about her husband's problem when they got the arrest warrant in the mail for solicitation. He hadn't bothered to tell her about the trouble he was in, so when she got that in the mail, she checked his car and computer and couldn't believe what she found. He said he got into pornography in high school and did it on his mission too. They were married in the temple. After a couple years of trying to help him, she left and got a restraining order to stay away from their daughter. There were many more stories about couples married in the temple where the husband had been looking at porn all along. Some of them stayed together and some didn't. In the last year, five women in my ward have told me their husband has a problem. I've mentioned this before. Our stake president says at least 50% of the men in our stake have a problem with it - this is based on the confessions he has received. Our Elder's Quorum pres. estimates 75% of the men in our ward have a problem. This is very serious and if the lesson makes people squirm, so be it.

[rickg]

I don't think it can be discussed enough. Sure wish it was discussed more when I was coming into puberty. I got looking at "stuff" way before I even knew it was such a serious sin. Made it very tough to get worthy to go on a mission. But then, that was 40 years ago. I hope our youth are talked to about it more today.

[MorningStar]

I don't think it can be discussed enough. Sure wish it was discussed more when I was coming into puberty. I got looking at "stuff" way before I even knew it was such a serious sin. Made it very tough to get worthy to go on a mission. But then, that was 40 years ago. I hope our youth are talked to about it more today.

I'm so sorry to hear that. You weren't prepared properly. I think it's as important as teaching our kids about drugs, smoking, and alcohol.

[checkerboy]

I have to say that I have found a site that helps those who are struggling. One of the best ways to overcome addiction is to write about it and this site lets you annoymously write about your struggles. It is at www.ldsar.org.

Another thing that would help all members whether dealing with addiction or trying to support someone who is, or even if you want to apply the atonement more fully in your life is to check out this site www.providentliving.org/content/list/0,11664,4177-1,00.html. Download or print a copy of the Guide to Addiction Recovery and Healing. You can also look up and see if there is a support group that meets locally. If anyone has any questions send me a message and I can help.

[MorningStar]

I have to say that I have found a site that helps those who are struggling. One of the best ways to overcome addiction is to write about it and this site lets you annoymously write about your struggles. It is at www.ldsar.org.

Another thing that would help all members whether dealing with addiction or trying to support someone who is, or even if you want to apply the atonement more fully in your life is to check out this site www.providentliving.org/content/list/0,11664,4177-1,00.html. Download or print a copy of the Guide to Addiction Recovery and Healing. You can also look up and see if there is a support group that meets locally. If anyone has any questions send me a message and I can help.

Thank you for sharing that! I think that will ge a great help for someone out there. :)

[Still_Small_Voice]

This is very serious and if the lesson makes people squirm, so be it.

Regarding my afore commentary about the lesson being very negative on unchastity, I didn't mean that the lesson made me uncomfortable when I read it with my wife. I just thought that there should have been more positive teachings on how physical intimacy in a marriage is good and approved of by the Lord. The lesson seemed to teach very little positive about the law of chastity and focused on the wickedness that is rampant in our telestial world.

[MorningStar]

Regarding my afore commentary about the lesson being very negative on unchastity, I didn't mean that the lesson made me uncomfortable when I read it with my wife. I just thought that there should have been more positive teachings on how physical intimacy in a marriage is good and approved of by the Lord. The lesson seemed to teach very little positive about the law of chastity and focused on the wickedness that is rampant in our telestial world.

I see what you mean. :) I have some great quotes by Spencer W. Kimball in The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball that speak very positively about sexual relations in marriage. Would you like me to dig them up? I think they would make a nice contrast to the no no's. I asked if I could use quotes from that book and they said, "Yes, as long as it's what President Kimball taught, that's great." They want us to focus on what he taught.