Birth Control...

[Beautiful_Serenity]

So what are your opinions about all this?  It is obvious that most LDS practice birth control to some extent.  Are we all going to hell for it, as some leaders in the past have suggested?  Or does doctrine change?  Are current leaders silent or wishywashy because we are too hardened as a people to handle the truth?

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I being the oldest of 7 children knowing that my parents used birth control. My mother always said, "I feel like were missing someone". Nine months or more later I had another brother or sister. My mom was 34 years old when she had her last child. She finally felt like we weren't missing anyone else and had the situation fix so there would be no surprises. I do think that if she was by chance to get pregnate again it would put her into a life threatning situation because of her health.

Yes I would have to say that many LDS practice some form of birth control. I don't think we are going to hell for it. Until my bishop asks and says that I can't go to the temple because I AGREE with birthcontrol, I have no worries about going to hell.

Being on birthcontrol is not one of the first principles of the gospel...and I personally and working on narrowing my gap between my temprole state here and perfection with out worring about birthcontrol.

So in closing I think that President Hinkley ia not wishy washy at all and if it is revealed to him that birthcontrol is an absoulte no then I guess I will change my thinking.

I saw nothing in "The Family Proclomation, to the world" about birth control.

I think as long as we raise our familys according to those standards we will all be fine. We can only do our best. Heavenly Father know what that is and so do we.

Bea-

[Jason]

Originally posted by dontagreeljefe@Nov 11 2005, 02:13 PM

  Unless physical or mental health is in danger let children come into your home.  That is what our heavenly parents do. 

Well our "heavenly parents" don't have school loans, a mortgage, car payments, and a job.

Very different situations.

[Beautiful_Serenity]

I think the lord is aware of our situation. He knows what we can handle.

I agree.

[Guest &lusername&gt]

-to add the thoughts of a 16 year old-

I know my wife and I are gunna be using seom form of birth control early in our marrage because i know we wouldn't be able to afford an exsessive amount of children, mostly because i plan on spending 12 years in collage (for those who dont know thats a P.HD.) Now my GF Melissa (also a strong member) and I both want 6 or 7 children eventully, but if i am gunna be in collage for 12 years I could not afford to have 7 kids all durign that time. Now i have nothig against begingi a family while in college. And i do belive that my wife and I should pray about when is the right time and the number of kids we should have. Heck, if we only have only and My waife and I both fell that we should stop there than i would fell no regrets. My mom often made mention that ofter my brother Micheal was born, my dad sugested seh have her tubes tied. but seh felt that there was still spirits waitign to become her son and daughter. But after seh have me seh felt ti was time to have her tubes tied. My parents had 6 children between 1977 ( i think) and 1989 (me). And i am tellign ya one thign when i am married i ain't gunna be going long periods of time without sex (unless health condishions prove other than suitible), i mean Hey im waitign till im married ain't that long enouph? . though seriously Liek it has been said erlier sexual intercourse is also reserved for a MARRIED couple to show their love for eachother. One of my preisthood leaders' wife is just now pregnat with their first child. Have they been commitng sin by not havign one erlier? they've been married 4 years now. What i am tryign to say is sometimes a couple needs to use something, even if its just a condum, to prvent pregnancy because children are exspenive from the moment they are born. my mom showed me the bill from when i was born, it had seom pretty big numbers on it.

on a lighter note, my former YM's presidant is also an ER and family practice doctor. He offerd to give me a free physical fro BSA camp one year (man wanna talk about awkward) but while my mom and I were waiting, he had a poster in his office about differant types of birth control. My mo looked at it, laughed, and said "well Josh, iam tell yo which ones dotn work and which oen of yoru siblings was born on it." that made me feel great.

well its late adn i have to be at work bright adn early tomorow

-Joshua

[Snow]

Originally posted by <username>@Dec 2 2005, 07:28 PM

-to add the thoughts of a 16 year old-

I know my wife and I are gunna be using seom form of birth control early in our marrage because i know we wouldn't be able to afford an exsessive amount of children, mostly because i plan on spending 12 years in collage (for those who dont know thats a P.HD.)

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Er, no. That's PhD and and unless you go to a whole bunch of them, it's not a collage.

[BenRaines]

Hey I think this thing has a spell checker. :)

[pushka]

Awww..Ben, it was late at night...let's not get into his grammar/spelling again!! LOL

and oooh!!! I notice he's got that nasty bottle of Chloroform in his sig. again...teehee, I think it's quite funny really, and has a love heart on it!!! Hahaha

[Guest bizabra]

Um, if you are "gunna" go to college to earn a PHD, best learn to use the spell check function (that is conveniently supplied) PRIOR to posting,'K? A FEW misspelled words are understandable, but an entire post of mis-spellings is pretty well ILLEGIBLE!

Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by <username>@Dec 2 2005, 08:28 PM

-to add the thoughts of a 16 year old-

I know my wife and I are gunna be using seom form of birth control early in our marrage because i know we wouldn't be able to afford an exsessive amount of children, mostly because i plan on spending 12 years in collage (for those who dont know thats a P.HD.) Now my GF Melissa (also a strong member) and I both want 6 or 7 children eventully, but if i am gunna be in collage for 12 years I could not afford to have 7 kids all durign that time. Now i have nothig against begingi a family while in college. And i do belive that my wife and I should pray about when is the right time and the number of kids we should have. Heck, if we only have only and My waife and I both fell that we should stop there than i would fell no regrets. My mom often made mention that ofter my brother Micheal was born, my dad sugested seh have her tubes tied. but seh felt that there was still spirits waitign to become her son and daughter. But after seh have me seh felt ti was time to have her tubes tied. My parents had 6 children between 1977 ( i think) and 1989 (me). And i am tellign ya one thign when i am married i ain't gunna be going long periods of time without sex (unless health condishions prove other than suitible), i mean  Hey im waitign till im married ain't that long enouph? . though seriously Liek it has been said erlier sexual intercourse is also reserved for a MARRIED couple to show their love for eachother. One of my preisthood leaders' wife is just now pregnat with their first child. Have they been commitng sin by not havign one erlier? they've been married 4 years now. What i am tryign to say is sometimes a couple needs to use something, even if its just a condum, to prvent pregnancy because children are exspenive from the moment they are born. my mom showed me the bill from when i was born, it had seom pretty big numbers on it.

on a lighter note, my former YM's presidant is also an ER and family practice doctor. He offerd to give me a free physical fro BSA camp one year (man wanna talk about awkward) but while my mom and I were waiting, he had a poster in his office about differant types of birth control. My mo looked at it, laughed, and said "well Josh, iam tell yo which ones dotn work and which oen of yoru siblings was born on it." that made me feel great.

well its late adn i have to be at work bright adn early tomorow

-Joshua

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[Guest &lusername&gt]

to everyeon who attacked my spelling

I CANT USE SPELL CHECK my computer blocks it cuz it thinks its pop-up and i cant add it to the accepted URL's

[Snow]

Originally posted by <username>@Dec 3 2005, 03:58 PM

to everyeon who attacked my spelling

I CANT USE SPELL CHECK  my computer blocks it cuz it thinks its  pop-up and i cant add it to the accepted URL's

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Well then you have three choices:

1. Proof your own work manually.

2, Use a word processor - spell check and then cut and paste.

3. Stop talking about graduate degrees until after you have one.

[jiggypoo]

I love the conflicts of interest that exist within the Church. It goes to show that things do change in the Church - and not because of God - but because of men and their biases. Prophets are biased. They have their own set of ideals - and those are founded upon the prejudices of their life, culture and so forth. How do we break through this? We turn it to God and ask His divine guidance. I sincerely believe this is most important. Blind obedience leads to slothful servants and faithless congregations.

Let us exercise the gift of the Holy Ghost and determine our proper course regarding this.

[Fiannan]

I am mostly in agreement with you jiggypoo -- even Brigham Young said that it was evil to depend solely on church leaders to guide you in life decisions (you have to go to God for inspiration). However, you make it sound as if church leaders have changed the rules because they want to -- I instead believe that (like in the case of divorce mentioned by Jesus) God's design for our lives may be one thing, but if society/church oinions stray away too much, then allowances are made (lower laws?). Church leaders have said what the truth is, it's the members (Sunday school teachers, priesthood leaders, home teachers, visiting teachers, bishops etc.) who are too scared to repeat what is said -- which gives the impression that doctrines have changed.

[Fiannan]

Snow criticizes a member of the boards about spelling by stating:

3. Stop talking about graduate degrees until after you have one.

While it wasn't me being questioned I probably make my share of spelling errors. Strange, though, I never once had a professor comment about spelling in any of the term papers/projects that were required for my Master's degree.

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by Fiannan@Dec 9 2005, 08:00 AM

Snow criticizes a member of the boards  about spelling by stating:

3. Stop talking about graduate degrees until after you have one.

While it wasn't me being questioned I probably make my share of spelling errors. Strange, though, I never once had a professor comment about spelling in any of the term papers/projects that were required for my Master's degree.

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BIZ: You had a bad teacher then. In real life, a grant proposal or a business plan, or a resume with bad spelling and grammar is thrown out. If a person can't be bothered to produce a correctly written document, then time would not be wasted reading it or considering it's other merits.

[Guest ToasterOfen]

Oh, brother...the spelling thing. Username doesn't have his PhD yet, he hasn't even graduated from highschool yet, so let's give him a break. Yeah, spelling is important in real life, but message boards are not "real life". Give him credit for being bold enough to post maturely here about some hefty adult issues...And, he is aspiring to be something great...should we knock him down because of a few (or a lot of) spelling mistakes?

Spelling has always come very easily to me...my sister was a horrible speller...oh well! My sis-in-law is very intelligent, honors and everything, graduated from the University with her bachelors in Math...she can't spell worth a darn. My husband always had to proof read her stuff--and he is nearly 5 years younger than she is.

[Maureen]

Originally posted by ToasterOfen@Dec 9 2005, 09:36 AM

Oh, brother...the spelling thing.  Username doesn't have his PhD yet, he hasn't even graduated from highschool yet, so let's give him a break.

I disagree. If <username> can take the time to type something out for everyone else to take the time to read it; he should automatically out of respect make sure it is at least readable. I think it's just a sign of laziness. If he's planning on spending 12 years in college, he better stop being lazy now, it will make it easier later on.

M.

[Guest ToasterOfen]

Originally posted by Maureen+Dec 9 2005, 10:33 AM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-ToasterOfen@Dec 9 2005, 09:36 AM

Oh, brother...the spelling thing.  Username doesn't have his PhD yet, he hasn't even graduated from highschool yet, so let's give him a break.

I disagree. If <username> can take the time to type something out for everyone else to take the time to read it; he should automatically out of respect make sure it is at least readable. I think it's just a sign of laziness. If he's planning on spending 12 years in college, he better stop being lazy now, it will make it easier later on.

M.

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His e-mail is readable in the youth boards where he usually posts.

Yeah, it's not pretty, but in message forums and pm's, that is how the youth talk. Undercover cops, posing as kids, in order to catch child predators have to "learn" to not be so correct in their language, use the spelling errors and abbreviated language, to be believed and let into that world.

All I'm saying is, he is a kid, and yes, he does need to learn to spell check and edit his work, because it does have an effect later in life, but I think it's ridiculous when we harp on him about it. That's just my opinion.

[jiggypoo]

"However, you make it sound as if church leaders have changed the rules because they want to "

Fiannan - I can see how I sound that way. Your point about lower laws is a nice justification for change but I'm not really comfortable with the "lower laws" approach. It would bother me that God's expectation of me changes according to my willingness to reach for Him. I'll have to ponder this more.

[Mothball]

You're all right in that birth control has not been mentioned directly as of late. However, that neither validates nor discredits the church's stand on the issue. The fact that it's being debated here in this fashion would probably bring some humbling words from President Hinkley himself were he to see it.

"Some even use as an alibi the fact that drugs are not mentioned in the Word of Wisdon. What a miserable excuse! Nor does it mention the dangers of jumping from an overpass onto a busy freeway, or diving into an empty swimming pool . . . common sense would dictate against such behavior . . ."

I love that quote from our current prophet; it reminds me that I don't have to wait for the church to tell me what to do in order to do it. The same goes for tit-for-tat doctrinal disputes. The bottom line is, your own conscience is your guide - you shouldn't worry about what other people are doing or what they think. If you firmly believe that birth control is 100% wrong no matter what, and that most of the church membership will pay a great penalty someday because in your perception they don't take this doctrine seriously enough, you might be right Then again, you might be wrong Are you really understanding the doctrine in it's completeness?

I put this in the category of the law of Moses. Perhaps we're at a point where there is a bigger law that needs to be understood and obeyed first. Could it be that we're at a point where gratuitous sex is so rampant that we need to focus on that before we start bridling sexual relationships within the proper sanctions of marriage? I don't know either, but it's a thought!

Maybe right now there are bigger fish to fry. At any rate, as long as you feel at peace with your decision between you, your spouse, and the Lord, this subject can be dropped. Don't waste time worrying about it or becoming a crusader against artificial birth control . . . YOU have bigger fish to fry in getting that family raised properly

[britbratchic]

This is a link to where the church stands on birth control:

Birth Control

Basically, it is a prayerful decision to be made between husband, wife, and the Lord. As it is with all major decisions in life. The church can't make an official stand on every single little controversial thing, because that would frustrate the need for personal revelation. However, this is on lds.org, so I think it's official enough :)

As for what past prophets have said... Well, look at polygamy. It was a commandment of the Lord to certain men in the 1800's, and then there was not a need for it anymore, so the "policies," if you will, changed. Polygamy is not only unnecessary, it is unlawful in today's world. Look at the Law of Moses. It was the law, the set of commandments, for a very long time. When Christ came, the law was fulfilled, and new laws were enacted. The church can change policies with the times, not only is this ok, but it is necessary! If we never changed modesty codes from the 1800's, we would still be having to cover wrists and ankles, and females would only be allowed to wear dresses. The church policies change, but the main doctrine, the scriptures and the current prophet's teachings, are still truth.

Pres. Ezra Taft Benson said this:

"The most important prophet, so far as we are concerned, is the one who is living in our day and age. This is the prophet who has today's instructions from God to us today. God's revelation to Adam did not instruct Noah how to build the ark. Every generation has need of the ancient scripture plus the current scripture from the living prophet. Therefore, the most crucial reading and pondering which you should do is of the latest inspired words from the Lord's mouthpiece."

Also said, in multiple different manuals of the church, are these statements, referring following modern prophets and parenthood:

"As far as we are concerned, which prophet is as important as Moses, Abraham, Nephi, or any other ancient prophet? (The current prophet, because he is directing us today.)"

"Why do you think many people have a tendency to respect ancient prophets, those in the Bible for instance, more than those living today? (People tend to be more critical of the human faults of those who are still living.)"

"President [spencer W.] Kimball said, 'It is an act of extreme selfishness for a married couple to refuse to have children when they are able to do so.' When married couples postpone childbearing until after they have satisfied their material goals, the mere passage of time assures that they seriously reduce their potential to participate in furthering our Heavenly Father's plan for all of his spirit children. Faithful Latter-day Saints cannot afford to look upon children as an interference with what the world calls 'self-fulfillment.' Our covenants with God and the ultimate purpose of life are tied up in those little ones who reach for our time, our love, and our sacrifices."

"How many children should a couple have? All that they can care for! Of course, to care for children means more than simply giving them life. Children must be loved, nurtured, taught, fed, clothed, housed, and well started in their capacities to be good parents themselves."

You take it for what it's worth :)

[slamjet]

Holy Digging Up Old Posts, Batman!

You take it for what it's worth

Ok, not much.

[britbratchic]

I was looking up the subject and this thread popped up in Google, I didn't realize how old it was until after I posted lol I didn't even think to look. My bad, sorry if I bring up a bunch of unwanted email notifications...

Yeah, I figured I was casting my pearls before swine, but looking up the stuff for this has helped me in my views, and I know it's helped a couple other people. That's good enough for me :)

[slamjet]

Yeah, I figured I was casting my pearls before swine...

Oh boy. Whatever.

Try having a discussion , and not preach. It might get you further and who knows, you might learn something. A little bit of compassion, charity and understanding goes a long way. Especially on these forums where there are numerous denominations, ideas and where all are welcome. If you want to preach, well, that's why there's church.

[pam]

So this is a very old thread (almost 5 years old) and it has been discussed numerous times in the past 5 years..I am going to close it.