Ev Conversation

[changeWCU]

Hello,

My name is Justin and I am a traditional Christian. I hope to have a conversation with the LDS people. Is there anything you have wanted to ask an evangelical?

My first question is if Moroni devoutly practiced the Mormon Gospel, why is he an angel now rather than a God?

[drjme]

Hello,

My name is Justin and I am a traditional Christian. I hope to have a conversation with the LDS people. Is there anything you have wanted to ask an evangelical?

My first question is if Moroni devoutly practiced the Mormon Gospel, why is he an angel now rather than a God?

HI Justin,

first question for you: In what sense are you a traditional Christian?

just like to know where you are coming from. :)

[changeWCU]

HI Justin,

first question for you: In what sense are you a traditional Christian?

just like to know where you are coming from. :)

Sure. My background is a Protestant, Southern Baptist more specifically. I try to use the term traditional Christian to distinguish myself from the kind LDS people, but I don't find it necessary to be so dogmatic so rather than representing the SBC, I used the term traditional Christian.

[snipe123]

Hello,

My name is Justin and I am a traditional Christian. I hope to have a conversation with the LDS people. Is there anything you have wanted to ask an evangelical?

My first question is if Moroni devoutly practiced the Mormon Gospel, why is he an angel now rather than a God?

Moroni lived the Gospel...not "the Mormon Gospel". We make no distinction.

In becoming a joint heir with Christ, (a God) no timeline is given in Mormon doctrine...Moroni is a ressurected being, as we all will be someday...According to scripture, some angels are "ministering spirits" (that is to say they are not ressurected), and some are ressurected beings with perfect, immortal bodies...As it stands now, he is an Angel. What he will be an eternity from now, is up to God.

[HiJolly]

Sure. My background is a Protestant, Southern Baptist more specifically. I try to use the term traditional Christian to distinguish myself from the kind LDS people, but I don't find it necessary to be so dogmatic so rather than representing the SBC, I used the term traditional Christian.

We claim the right to worship almighty God, according to the dictates of our conscience. We allow all others the same right.

I hope you like the writings of C.S. Lewis. He said, among other wonderful things:

"It is not for us to say who, in the deepest sense, is or is not

close to the spirit of Christ. We do not see into men's hearts. We

cannot judge, and are indeed forbidden to judge. It would be wicked

arrogance for us to say that a man is, or is not, a Christian in this

refined sense." (Mere Christianity, Touchstone, 1996, pp. 10-11.)

-- C. S. Lewis

We are Christians, regardless of what other, perhaps not-so-well informed, people may say.

HiJolly

[HiJolly]

Hello,

My name is Justin and I am a traditional Christian. I hope to have a conversation with the LDS people. Is there anything you have wanted to ask an evangelical?

What's more important, loving your fellow man, or following the rules?

My first question is if Moroni devoutly practiced the Mormon Gospel, why is he an angel now rather than a God?

He can be both. No problem. I suggest a search of the Old Testament on 'angel'. Some are mortal. Some are spirits without bodies. Some are immortals with bodies. What is an 'angel'? We believe it is any person (regardless of their state of being) that does a special work commissioned of God.

HiJolly

[MorningStar]

Hi Justin!

Welcome to the board. I appreciate your kind tone. I just wanted to point out that "angel" means "messenger". How do you define the word "angel"?

:)

MorningStar

[changeWCU]

What's more important, loving your fellow man, or following the rules?

HiJolly

I would answer your question like this. The most important is to love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength and second would be to love our neighbor as ourself. Hope that helps.

[HiJolly]

I would answer your question like this. The most important is to love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength and second would be to love our neighbor as ourself. Hope that helps.

Sounds biblical to me. :) That works!

HiJolly

[changeWCU]

Sounds biblical to me. :) That works!

HiJolly

That's good. How about this one: Two kids are having fun playing with toys in a construction site. They are at the bottom of an elevator shaft. They are testing the elevator and it is coming down, but the children don't notice. Is it more loving to let the kids continue to play or to spoil their fun and save them?

[MorningStar]

That's good. How about this one: Two kids are having fun playing with toys in a construction site. They are at the bottom of an elevator shaft. They are testing the elevator and it is coming down, but the children don't notice. Is it more loving to let the kids continue to play or to spoil their fun and save them?

I would spoil their fun and if they had been warned about it before, they would have a consequence. :)

[HiJolly]

How about this one: Two kids are having fun playing with toys in a construction site. They are at the bottom of an elevator shaft. They are testing the elevator and it is coming down, but the children don't notice. Is it more loving to let the kids continue to play or to spoil their fun and save them?

More loving of whom? Seriously.

HiJolly

[changeWCU]

I would spoil their fun and if they had been warned about it before, they would have a consequence. :)

True. Now if the LDS people believe they are correct and are happy and I believe they are in danger, I must - if I am truely loving - warn them.

[Daniel]

True. Now if the LDS people believe they are correct and are happy and I believe they are in danger, I must - if I am truely loving - warn them.

You are teetering on breaking these rules.

Open and frank discussions will occur but participants are expected to exercise common courtesy and 'netiquette' when posting. This is a critic free zone and we expect all our guests to respect that.

- Do not use the LDS FORUMS to advertise goods, services, organizations or web sites. (Few exceptions may be made for long time contributors whos materials may be of interest to LDS FORUMS members- and only with moderator permission.)

- Do not use the boards to proselytize (pro- or anti-) or bash others beliefs.

This site is intended for LDS and Investigators. Not for critics or others of other religious faiths to use as a proselyting tool.

We ask that you respect that.

QP.

[MorningStar]

True. Now if the LDS people believe they are correct and are happy and I believe they are in danger, I must - if I am truely loving - warn them.

But then you're treating us like children and that's not helpful. :) We're educated adults who have thoughtfully and prayerfully considered our beliefs.

[changeWCU]

But then you're treating us like children and that's not helpful. :) We're educated adults who have thoughtfully and prayerfully considered our beliefs.

It was just an analogy. Using children just works better. The point is that you would have compassion. In reguards to being evangelistic, is the LDS church really so weak that a simple person like me could convert someone who had an experience from God to show it is true? Surely not. You have nothing then to worry from me, unless the LDS church is based on faulty faith. I am trying to be careful with the rules and removed my signiture voluntarily even though it was not spam. However, it is difficult when the rules are suffocating. I understand why you must do it though if it is a weak faith. If it is strong, then I admit I do not understand.

JRG- it isn't voluntary if a mod orders you to do it.

Drop the snarky attitude or find a new playground. You may discuss and explore issues regarding your faith as well as the Gospel as understood by the Mormons. You may not proselyte, preach, or spam. Those are the rules. If you don't like them, you may go away.

It isn't a question of a weak faith versus a strong one- it's a matter of courtesy, ground rules and honesty.

This is a critic-free zone for those who wish to explore LDS belief and find Mormon answers to their questions. If you want to discuss, fine. If you want to nit-pick, try CARM.

Final warning.

Honos

[Pegtagatha]

I use to be an Independent Baptist and I converted to Mormon. I believe that the other is a Faulty Faith from my expearince as a Baptist, from what I've seen in that Faith. The leaders of the Faith almost all of them are faulty, they do really bad sins a lot, out and out and they really never repent of them. If they really did repent they would be doing less of these really bad sins.

[HiJolly]

It was just an analogy. Using children just works better. The point is that you would have compassion. In reguards to being evangelistic, is the LDS church really so weak that a simple person like me could convert someone who had an experience from God to show it is true? Surely not. You have nothing then to worry from me, unless the LDS church is based on faulty faith. I am trying to be careful with the rules and removed my signiture voluntarily even though it was not spam. However, it is difficult when the rules are suffocating. I understand why you must do it though if it is a weak faith. If it is strong, then I admit I do not understand.

Do you understand God's compassion, when he commanded the armies of Israel to kill all men, women, children and animals in the newly promised land? If you don't , then you'd better review your belief in the Bible. If you do, then I don't understand why the deaths of a couple of innocent children would bother you. You ignored my previous response to your question, which I admit you may have forgotten.

Please address my response (above in this thread). I'm asking for clarification of your original question.

HiJolly

[snipe123]

It was just an analogy. Using children just works better. The point is that you would have compassion. In reguards to being evangelistic, is the LDS church really so weak that a simple person like me could convert someone who had an experience from God to show it is true? Surely not. You have nothing then to worry from me, unless the LDS church is based on faulty faith. I am trying to be careful with the rules and removed my signiture voluntarily even though it was not spam. However, it is difficult when the rules are suffocating. I understand why you must do it though if it is a weak faith. If it is strong, then I admit I do not understand.

JRG- it isn't voluntary if a mod orders you to do it.

Drop the snarky attitude or find a new playground. You may discuss and explore issues regarding your faith as well as the Gospel as understood by the Mormons. You may not proselyte, preach, or spam. Those are the rules. If you don't like them, you may go away.

It isn't a question of a weak faith versus a strong one- it's a matter of courtesy, ground rules and honesty.

This is a critic-free zone for those who wish to explore LDS belief and find Mormon answers to their questions. If you want to discuss, fine. If you want to nit-pick, try CARM.

Final warning.

Honos

WCU--There are plenty of sites in which all your pet issues can be discussed with Mormons...This site happens to be a place for non-critical discussion though there is still a little of that...Should every site meet your individual needs? Do all "Christian" sites allow anti-Christian people to come on and spout every accusation they want, or are there some sites that prefer to keep the peace? Mormons are hardly afraid of, or strangers to criticism or persecution, but everyone needs a refuge once in awhile...geez...If you want to convert Mormons, set up your own discussion forum and advertize that any Mormons who would like to discuss their faith are welcome...or you can go to another site which allows for the same tired tirades against Mormons we are familiar with...but don't complain just because you can't do it here...

[MorningStar]

It was just an analogy. Using children just works better. The point is that you would have compassion. In reguards to being evangelistic, is the LDS church really so weak that a simple person like me could convert someone who had an experience from God to show it is true? Surely not. You have nothing then to worry from me, unless the LDS church is based on faulty faith. I am trying to be careful with the rules and removed my signiture voluntarily even though it was not spam. However, it is difficult when the rules are suffocating. I understand why you must do it though if it is a weak faith. If it is strong, then I admit I do not understand.

I'm trying to help you understand the way we perceive your analogy. If you ever wish to have a productive discussion with Mormons, don't compare us to naive little children who don't know any better than to play in an elevator shaft. Your analogy implies you are the wise adult and we are the helpless children. It also implies that our beliefs put us in danger. It doesn't work. It doesn't shake my faith - I just find it insulting. You're not here because you want to learn about our beliefs. You're here to sway us from our beliefs and that's not allowed on this board.

[Guest Seraphim]

WCU:

Compare this entire board to the fellowship forum on mormonapologetics.org. This is a critic free zone and a place for church members and those interested in learning more to discuss our beliefs. Based on your posts, you fall under the "critic" category.

Seraphim

[mnn727]

My first question is if Moroni devoutly practiced the Mormon Gospel, why is he an angel now rather than a God?

So far Moroni has only had about 1600 years to learn everything he needs to to become a joint heir with Christ...how long do you think it would take? Far longer than that in my opinion.

Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Galations 4: 7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

[Dale]

Justin-It is common for person's to devoutly practice the LDS religion without becoming a god. Though having an eternal marriage would make exaltation possible. But person's that don't become god's in LDS can still become angel's in the presence of God.

The thing about witnessing question's is the basic one's have proposed solution's. SHIELDS reachable through FAIR's links i do believe has an answer up about this question. http://www.fairlds.org SHIELDS have a list of 42 question's out of the late Dr. Walter Martin's The Maze of Mormonism book they have proposed some solution's to.

I am Community of Christ/RLDS. I have a book entitled on Behalf of Christ's Restored Gospel. It has two long essay's in it picking a part such trivia from a book entitled Reorganized Latter Day Saint Church: Is it Christian? by Carol Hanson. The Angelmessage bookstore is online if you want to do a search. The Committee For Apologetic Research and Education (CARE) that produced the book felt a need to rebut her 40 witnessing question's. The book was selling for $5.50, but was still out of print the last time i looked. They have an apologetic's section at Angelmessage with some mostly good articles. The material in the book was far better.

I took witnessing to Mormon's study. I read Carol Hanson's book prior to my baptism. I studied her question's. I read through since my baptism the Southern Baptist Convention's interfaith material's on Mormonism. Since my church is only 250,000+ members we only got a small handout on us. The Mormonism stuff can still be applied to us as our two churches are closely related. I have watched the Mormon Puzzle film by the SBC a bunch of time's.

I was LDS, but became RLDS in 2005. My first contact with an Anti-Mormon book was Mormon Claims Answered by Marvin Cowan. My step-mother was Nazarene, and marked it up before she got baptized LDS. I have since read many such book's. Anti-Mormon literature kept me out of Evangelicalism. It has made me very friendly to the LDS Church. The more i read that stuff the more i kept on running into answers that caused me to doubt the logic and reasoning abilities of Mormon critic's.

[Kate]

We claim the right to worship almighty God, according to the dictates of our conscience. We allow all others the same right.

I hope you like the writings of C.S. Lewis. He said, among other wonderful things:

We are Christians, regardless of what other, perhaps not-so-well informed, people may say.

HiJolly

HiJolly,

That is my favorite C.S. Lewis quote, glad you posted it!

~Kate

[bjw]

I was a protestant for 26 years prior to becoming LDS. Anyway, back to the OP, I was always under the impression that it is not possible to become a god until after the judgment, and that spirits that are good go to paradise to await judgment, where they will receive a kingdom of glory as described by Paul in I Cor. 15. So, Moroni is still awaiting judgment, and functioned as a resurrected being delivering a message to Joseph Smith.