LDS Church's New Managing Director for Church Communication

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1 minute ago, Carborendum said:

No, I was not saying you were.  I don't know how you got that out of my post.  What I was referring to is that 

• One exmormon says we're reacting so badly to this that we're "losing it."
• Another one (you) say we're not objecting enough.

That's what I meant by polar opposite.

I appreciate the apology.  And I mean that.  In many ways you remind me of an exmo friend of mine.  I'm pretty sure you're not him.  But you still remind me of him.

Not at all.  Virtually everyone on this board has said something along those lines at some point.  I think that you're getting a tainted sample from what used to be your stake.  I have extended family all over.  And none of them have seen the level you're describing from your former stake.

All of us are quite aware that it is happening.  And we don't like it.  But based on my data points which cover about 40 stakes and wards (I have a very large extended family and friend network) it is fairly low and kept in check over much of the Church.

When we see some things happening, we do express concern.  But it has to be pretty extreme to have it destroy our testimony.  I'm sure you'd understand why if you'd realize that our experience has not mirrored yours.  Perhaps the reality is somewhere in the middle.  And maybe you consider me naive to "the reality."  But what if I am?  Maybe it is worse than my many data points indicate.  But I'm worried mostly about me and my family.

And one fact is that I do believe that if it ever got as bad as you were describing in your ward, I would do everything I could to preach to them and tell them that they are violating the laws of God.  It may be as futile as Lehi preaching the the people of Jerusalem.  But I'd do it just as passionately as I'm certain he did.

And if I am cast out, I know that the Lord would find me a promised land to set down in.

That's a great response.  

I'd say globally that it is a problem because of Elder Oaks in a youth fireside read a letter from a young woman who mentioned the drastic difference being taught and practiced in her local area. But I fully understand that depending on one's age & stage in life as to whether it could be perceived as a bigger or smaller problem.

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2 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

You and I have a different definition of what "shunning" means too.

And probably "browbeat" as well.

Maybe . . .but when my buddy doesn't talk to me for months on end (and he is a good guy; I don't blame him in the least bit-he has his own struggles and I do forgive him-it's more the culture).

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3 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

The members are without question the kindest and most caring people out there. They usually feel guilty for the littlest things. These are people who, 90% of them, are more Christlike than anyone else alive. 

I would in general 100% agree with you. However, you can read my story elsewhere.  Definitely, not what I experienced. I would also say that I have experienced a tremendous amount of two-facedness. 

I have another old friend from college, she posted something about "Love is Love" or some other such nonsense.  I politely, disagreed on Facebook and said 2 men (or for that matter a man and a woman) engaging in sodomitic acts is ungodly-regardless of what it is called.

She was polite in public and said-let's talk about this privately. I said sure.  She PM'd me and oh my goodness.  She laid into me like white on rye.  I was stunned . . .literally stunned. Here is someone my wife and I had over to our house for dinner, we played games with them before kids. And now in a private PM she is telling me off and saying things like "I'm a sex therapist/counselor/whatever and I bet you can't even please your wife b/c you are so boring" or some other nastiness. I showed my wife the txt and she was stunned as well.

It was horrible.  I've had so many experiences with LDS folks that when they are behind the wall one-on-one they have ended up being extremely, extremely vicious and nasty.

Now . . maybe it's just people being people.  But I'm the opposite. Publicly I might go overboard from time to time but in private I'm always extremely polite individually.

 

[NeuroTypical]

@old, God bless ya.  I'm going to close the thread, I think after 8 pages, folks have pretty much had their say. 

And I'm not gonna ban you or ding you or put you in post approval or any other things a mod does, but please understand we take site rule #1 seriously.  

I've had umpteen experiences with umpteen folks heading out of the church for various reasons.  In my experience, they need love more than anything else.  I truly do wish you and your family the best.   Keep in touch.