rcthompson88 Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 As Nephi is pondering the words of his father, desiring to know the things his father had seen in his dream. Being caught away to a high mountain, Nephi begins his vision with an exchange with the Spirit of the Lord, who seems to be interested in having Nephi articulate just what it is he desires. After Nephi tells the Spirit of the Lord that he desires to know the interpretation of his father's dream, the Spirit tells him to look. At this point the Spirit of the Lord seems to disappear (1st Nephi 11:12). In v. 14, when the heavens open an angel comes down, and this personage is the one that accompanies Nephi through the remainder of his vision. Do you suppose there were different purposes being fulfilled by the Spirit of the Lord vs the Angel that could not have been accomplished by just one of them being the sole visitor in Nephi's vison? Is it the nature of Nephi's desire for an interpretation that causes the Spirit to depart? I obviously need to do some pondering myself, and hope to come back with some thoughts, but this is a detail of Nephi's vision that I seem to have just glossed right over in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikbone Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 rcthompson88 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CV75 Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 (edited) 1 hour ago, rcthompson88 said: As Nephi is pondering the words of his father, desiring to know the things his father had seen in his dream. Being caught away to a high mountain, Nephi begins his vision with an exchange with the Spirit of the Lord, who seems to be interested in having Nephi articulate just what it is he desires. After Nephi tells the Spirit of the Lord that he desires to know the interpretation of his father's dream, the Spirit tells him to look. At this point the Spirit of the Lord seems to disappear (1st Nephi 11:12). In v. 14, when the heavens open an angel comes down, and this personage is the one that accompanies Nephi through the remainder of his vision. Do you suppose there were different purposes being fulfilled by the Spirit of the Lord vs the Angel that could not have been accomplished by just one of them being the sole visitor in Nephi's vison? Is it the nature of Nephi's desire for an interpretation that causes the Spirit to depart? I obviously need to do some pondering myself, and hope to come back with some thoughts, but this is a detail of Nephi's vision that I seem to have just glossed right over in the past. The Spirit of the Lord would be the Holy Ghost, witnessing of Jesus Christ who would have directed the subordinate angel to "run the projector." This subordinate could have been the translated Elijah, the connection being that the dream/vision set forth the application of the plan of redemption in terms of family relationships (Lehi preserving his immediate family). A further connection is that the dream came after the brass plates were retrieved and preserved, leading to the retrieval and preservation of Lehi's family, and according to the genealogy provided in the plates, the retrieval and preservation of his ancestors and descendants (as confirmed by Nephi's revelation about that), and an explanation as to why it was essential for the brass plates to be preserved. Edited January 20 by CV75 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laronius Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 The Holy Ghost was not fully operative during the mortal ministry of Jesus Christ. My guess is this is related to that. I don't have the answer but if you can figure out one you may figure out the other. zil2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil2 Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 Chapter 10 should be included in the pondering of this question: Quote 1 Nephi 10:17 And it came to pass after I, Nephi, having heard all the words of my father, concerning the things which he saw in a vision, and also the things which he spake by the power of the Holy Ghost, which power he received by faith on the Son of God—and the Son of God was the Messiah who should come—I, Nephi, was desirous also that I might see, and hear, and know of these things, by the power of the Holy Ghost, which is the gift of God unto all those who diligently seek him, as well in times of old as in the time that he should manifest himself unto the children of men. Part of me thinks that in the first 11 verses (of chapter 11), the Spirit finishes his job (of testifying of Christ) and thereafter hands things off to an angel. 12 minutes ago, laronius said: The Holy Ghost was not fully operative during the mortal ministry of Jesus Christ. My guess is this is related to that. I don't have the answer but if you can figure out one you may figure out the other. I have wondered about this, too. The Spirit (whichever Spirit it was), leaves as soon as Nephi starts seeing the mortal life of Jesus Christ, so it does seem like it could be for related reasons, if not the same reason. The part of me that's willing to believe that anything is possible for God wonders if this was Christ (in spirit) and Nephi was time traveling, so someone else had to step in because Christ was elsewhere during the time Nephi traveled to. Or, same scenario, but it was the Holy Ghost and he had to go because, for reasons that we haven't been given, he doesn't seem to fully operate when Christ is physically present. (For the record, a bigger part of me says time travel is nonsense.) The slightly rebellious and silly side of me thinks the angel was late for work that day and the Spirit had to fill in until the angel arrived.... Whatever else is true, I don't believe Nephi said or did anything that offended the Spirit or drove him away, or that the angel's arrival constitutes a downgraded experience. If Nephi had done something wrong, I think the vision would have ended. laronius 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikbone Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 (edited) 6 hours ago, rcthompson88 said: Do you suppose there were different purposes being fulfilled by the Spirit of the Lord vs the Angel that could not have been accomplished by just one of them being the sole visitor in Nephi's vison? Is it the nature of Nephi's desire for an interpretation that causes the Spirit to depart? Dont know. Good pick up though. I definitely like the Holy Ghost for the Spirit of the Lord in 1 Ne 11: 1-12 The Angel is curious. Could be the Holy Ghost. Any other Archangel. Or Jehovah himself. The Angel sure does speak as if he is the Savior in a few verses though… I like the similarity between 1 Ne 14: 28, 3 Ne 26: 11 & 3 Ne 28: 25 Edited January 20 by mikbone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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