Another example of incompetent American education.

[prisonchaplain]

Perhaps this is an example of conservatism run amok. When left to their own devices, you can see that they would like to return the state of civilization back to a time of feudalism via educating only the wealthy. However the people will not embrace any Dukes of Birchism.

Moksha, abolishing public education is not conservatism, but an extreme libertarianism. Conservatives favor charter schools, tuition tax credits, school choice, etc.--but not the abolition of all publically funded education.

[Moksha]

Moksha, abolishing public education is not conservatism, but an extreme libertarianism. Conservatives favor charter schools, tuition tax credits, school choice, etc.--but not the abolition of all publically funded education.

You are probably right. My thoughts seem distracted with so much going on:

Almost like a new Holy Week:

Funeral Saturday

Superbowl Sunday

Back to Work Monday

Super Tuesday

Ash Wednesday

Thankless Thursday and,

Thank God its Friday

[pushka]

John Doe, thanks very much for enlightening USN and JBS as to my nationality, and therefore lack of an in-depth knowledge of American History of Education.

I'm glad that you pointed out the difficulty with a voucher system for schools. I'm sure that the difficulties in that situation would be mirrored here in the UK.

USN, our schools already compete for students, due to League Tables that each school appears on, where the performance of the teachers is noted, and schools congratulated or chastised on their results. Unfortunately, a symptom of the existence of these tables is that teachers, and staff in hospitals (as they are similarly Tabled) is that the increase in administrative paper work decreases the ability of the staff to fully care for their pupils and patients..too much 'red tape'.

JBS, I wonder what you would like the children who couldn't afford to be educated to spend their time doing instead of attending school? Are you hoping for a return to the days of the Agricultural Revolution where children not attending schools could just work the farms for their parents?

[JohnBirchSociety]

Moksha, abolishing public education is not conservatism, but an extreme libertarianism. Conservatives favor charter schools, tuition tax credits, school choice, etc.--but not the abolition of all publically funded education.

True Conservatives favor the proper role and function of government.

That role never includes the taking of one person's labor (money) and giving it to another, regardless of pretense (education, health-care, welfare, etc..). It is never correct to steal, even with government sanctioning.

Charter Schools are government regulated. Tuition tax credits imply that the money stolen by government should partially be returned to the victim. School Choice cannot actually happen when there is government oversight of all schooling (even home schooling, to an extent).

Publically funded education is a central tenet of Marxist Communism, and is contrary to any principle of liberty.

The free market, unrestricted, is the best place for education.

[JohnBirchSociety]

John Doe, thanks very much for enlightening USN and JBS as to my nationality, and therefore lack of an in-depth knowledge of American History of Education.

I'm glad that you pointed out the difficulty with a voucher system for schools. I'm sure that the difficulties in that situation would be mirrored here in the UK.

USN, our schools already compete for students, due to League Tables that each school appears on, where the performance of the teachers is noted, and schools congratulated or chastised on their results. Unfortunately, a symptom of the existence of these tables is that teachers, and staff in hospitals (as they are similarly Tabled) is that the increase in administrative paper work decreases the ability of the staff to fully care for their pupils and patients..too much 'red tape'.

JBS, I wonder what you would like the children who couldn't afford to be educated to spend their time doing instead of attending school? Are you hoping for a return to the days of the Agricultural Revolution where children not attending schools could just work the farms for their parents?

I favor a return to that which worked. Voluntary associations work.

In America, we became the most prosperous (and educated) people in the world through voluntary, locally run, privately funded and directed, primary education. If you check the history of the 19th century in regards to public "education" in the US, you will see that it came after the Marxist Communist revolution began in Europe with Marx and the "Communist Manifesto"...here is a quote from it:

"Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc."

From this paradigm sprang much of what is now known as the "National Education Association" in the United States.

Publicly funded "education" will never work. It is contrary to the proper role and function of free government.

[Moksha]

Publically funded education is a central tenet of Marxist Communism, and is contrary to any principle of liberty.

Publicly funded "education" will never work. It is contrary to the proper role and function of free government.

Most of the posters here are products of a public education system. This right-wing thinking that would abolish public education is really pretty far out. Does this topic get a lot of play at the Birch meetings?

[sgallan]

Publicly funded "education" will never work.

Publically funded education works very well at the Secondary level.

[pushka]

I favor a return to that which worked. Voluntary associations work.

In America, we became the most prosperous (and educated) people in the world through voluntary, locally run, privately funded and directed, primary education. If you check the history of the 19th century in regards to public "education" in the US, you will see that it came after the Marxist Communist revolution began in Europe with Marx and the "Communist Manifesto"...here is a quote from it:

"Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc."

From this paradigm sprang much of what is now known as the "National Education Association" in the United States.

Publicly funded "education" will never work. It is contrary to the proper role and function of free government.

Okay, I need to read more about the evolution of Education in the USA, however I still have this nagging feeling about those children who were not fortunate enough to be educated in the USA, what happened to those children? Do you think they benefitted from the school system you're suggesting, by not being able to be educated? Please tell me what happened to most of those children, how long they lived, how they occupied themselves at school age and beyond.

[prisonchaplain]

True Conservatives favor the proper role and function of government.

That role never includes the taking of one person's labor (money) and giving it to another, regardless of pretense (education, health-care, welfare, etc..). It is never correct to steal, even with government sanctioning.

You may believe it never SHOULD include taxation for public services, but it always had done so. Always--including in Old Testament Israel and Judah. One person's "true conservatism" is another's "classic liberalism," is today best explicated in libertarianism. IMHO, in a global economy, strong public education is a crucial element of national defense.

Charter Schools are government regulated.

Perhaps...but less so than traditional public schools.

Tuition tax credits imply that the money stolen by government should partially be returned to the victim.

Your notion of taxation as theft is not sustainable in our democratic republican society.

School Choice cannot actually happen when there is government oversight of all schooling (even home schooling, to an extent).

Well, it can and does...just with less license than you insist upon.

Publically funded education is a central tenet of Marxist Communism, and is contrary to any principle of liberty.

It's also a central tenet of most societies, and is not unique to communism. Additionally, the decentralized, district-based education of our country is particularly uncommunist.

The free market, unrestricted, is the best place for education.

You really want to return to a day when the poor found it almost impossible to gain any kind of significant education???

[Fiannan]

I'm glad that you pointed out the difficulty with a voucher system for schools. I'm sure that the difficulties in that situation would be mirrored here in the UK.

Vouchers work really well for Sweden.

[a-train]

It should be understood that most libertarian thinkers do not view community projects to educate people as a thing to be avoided, they only want the government out of the process.

There ARE private schools in my area, very good private schools, to which I could send my child for a similar fee to what I pay for public schools through taxes.

My wife taught at two private schools that were funded mainly by private funds but were FREE to students. One of which had a student base primarily of Sudanese inner-city students of the most humble means. She worked at those particular schools because they paid better than public schools.

Now, I realize that there are many who cannot afford to pay for school, but I am not convinced that my taxes are being used by Uncle Sam to educate them any better than would a local private school operating on funds locally and voluntarily donated.

-a-train

[reveontiveros]

Mom: Bullies drove boy to kill himself - CNN.com

While I am not sure about this specific case I have to say my general impression of American school administrators is very,very poor. Most seem to be washed up teachers /coaches who can't handle the classroom so they spend a couple of summers in school to get an administrator's license so they can be get out of teaching, but rule their little kingdoms.

Why do kids carry knives and guns to school? To protect themselves in most cases. And what do the kids do who are outsiders (who don't fit into the artificial and psychotic lifestyle of modern American education evolved from psychological theories better applied to correctional institutions than places of learning)? These kids suffer, commit suicide or go on rampages.

If only all parents with kids picked on in schools would carefully document the cases, document their appeals to the administrative morons, and then, if their kids continues to be picked on, bring lawsuits up against these schools you would see things change. The American education system has some excellent teachers, some pathetic administrators and is anything but well. The administrators across the USA will only take note when money is at stake -- and bad publicity since most admins are more concerned about good publicity (like having good write-ups in the sports page about their sports teams) than the welfare of the kids. It's time the US followed examples of countries like Britain and Sweden and take action against bullies -- and admins who ignore the problem as well.

well I can answer one of your questions about the whole knifes an gun thing. Its all image either a homie trying to front against a gang that he has trump card. Or a kid trying to get back at all the kids that picked on him and shows that he gets the last laugh. Pretty much it all come down to media. I think MTV, BET an Disney Channel should be taking off the air. yeah they have some good shows but it only takes one crummy show ... like it only takes one teaspoon of oil to make 1000 gallons of water undrinkable ... an it also has to do with music I love rap but the rap they have now days is crap. We are a need in social reform period.

[reveontiveros]

Oh yeah an lets not forget its are duty to preach the true word of god are mission dose not end after the two years aye. Me my self X drug dealer gangbanger since my dad put a gun in my hand at age 9 knows what the gospel is capable of it changed me. Never look down on the kids that does this stuff or there parents bring them up instead an lend a hand of assistance.

[pushka]

JBS, are you deliberately avoiding my questions regarding how children who's families were too poor to send them to school would spend their time?

How would these children benefit from the kind of school system you're suggesting would be better for the USA?

What happened to these kinds of children in the period you are suggesting the USA return to in its provision of education?

I think it's irrelevant, in today's society, whether or not free, public education (via taxes) was a Marxist concept...I still think it is a good concept, don't get too wound up about Marxist theories that it screws up your whole view of how the world should operate now..