Repentence and Excommunication?

[Heckya]

I've got a few questions on this subject.

1. What is the process of repentence? When can you pray and repent on your own? And when do you need to go to your bishop? (this is a biggie for my husband. he doesn't understand why we have to repent through a bishop...frankly, neither do i. I'd saw it is one of his top three reasons why he isn't excited about the lds faith.)

2. Do bishops make annual appointments to meet with every member of the ward or is that just torture they put teens through? (I'm joking on the torture part....well sort of...some of the questions as a kid were agonizing and embarassing)

3. What does somebody do to be excommunicated? I know one person who was excommunicated for adultery, but he was married in the temple. What other things do the lds excommunicate for?

4. Are the standards for being excommunicated different/higher for someone that has been through the temple than for someone who has not?

5. Do I really have to repent for things I did 10 years ago? Isn't going back to church enough? I say this somewhat jokingly, but seriously, I've got some pretty major things in my past. Plus, I've done a lot of asking for forgiveness on my own. I don't really want to repeat my sins to someone else. It's humiliating?

Any answers/input is appreciated! Thanks

[cgrantreed]

I've got a few questions on this subject.

1. What is the process of repentence? When can you pray and repent on your own? And when do you need to go to your bishop? (this is a biggie for my husband. he doesn't understand why we have to repent through a bishop...frankly, neither do i. I'd saw it is one of his top three reasons why he isn't excited about the lds faith.)

The process of repentance is relatively simple though very important. To truly repent of something means that you are forsaking the sin and showing your commitment to God in this commitment. The list is not a cut and dried bullet point kind of thing but its relatively simple. Some sins are not as serious as others... example; "simpler" sins are speaking badly of others, language that peels wallpaper, word of wisdom issues like casual drugs and alcohol. The more serious ones are theft, adultery, addictions, abuse, abandonment... The simpler sins can and are suggested that you take them to God directly and ask for forgiveness and then if it affects others, ask them for forgiveness too. The more serious sins require repentance through proper authority figures like bishop. This is part of the plan of repentance and is necessary to gain full forgiveness in that sin. These serious sins usually impact many others in your lives and they take a lot of work to forsake and deny any further action in them. I know there is more to it but most of the times it takes the help of the Bishop, Stake President or counseling to get your life on track. To be honest I have gone to my Bishop for sin issues that were relatively small but he helped me to figure out how to change courses to prevent these from being bigger sins in the future.

2. Do bishops make annual appointments to meet with every member of the ward or is that just torture they put teens through? (I'm joking on the torture part....well sort of...some of the questions as a kid were agonizing and embarassing)

The Bishops make yearly interviews with the youth to see how they are doing in their lives and see if they can help with anything. Some of the interview questions are a little embarrassing..." Are you dating? Have you been doing anything with your date that is against the codes of conduct for the youth?". I agree. HOWEVER, I know of many youth that have been messing around with their dates and have crossed the lines and the Bishop asking those questions has helped them to admit it and get on with their lives instead of letting it eat at them. This is a problem that our youth face and i know when i was doing that stuff as a kid I'd be danged of I was going to tell my parents about it. However I trusted my Bishop.

3. What does somebody do to be excommunicated? I know one person who was excommunicated for adultery, but he was married in the temple. What other things do the lds excommunicate for?

Temple or otherwise, you can still be excommunicated for some things. Having a Temple recommend makes your sin more difficult since to have a recommend you must be upholding the standards of the church. For the best answers on excommunication, go to lds.org, click on the "gospel library" link and hit search. Type in "excommunication" and read some of the articles. They explain it far better than I could here. Note, Excommunication is not always what happens...even with some relatively serious issues. Its completely up to God and great pains go into making sure that this does not happen if it isn't absolutely necessary. No one wants to see anyone removed from the membership of their church but sometimes its what is necessary to provide the sinner with motivation to want to correct their past and go forward with a clean heart and mind. I have even heard from someone that has been excom'd that this was the biggest relief of their life because they could just start over with a completely clean slate.

4. Are the standards for being excommunicated different/higher for someone that has been through the temple than for someone who has not?

Absolutely... but again, its still up to God. You'd be amazed at the mercy that is shown in these situations.

5. Do I really have to repent for things I did 10 years ago? Isn't going back to church enough? I say this somewhat jokingly, but seriously, I've got some pretty major things in my past. Plus, I've done a lot of asking for forgiveness on my own. I don't really want to repeat my sins to someone else. It's humiliating?

Any answers/input is appreciated! Thanks

Simple answer... yes. I am speaking from complete knowledge of this. I had a very...lets say... colorful past a number of years ago. I returned to church knowing that it was my salvation. I waited for many years before I repented and moved on and these things that haunted me just never stopped haunting me. I finally put my tail between my legs and just went to my Bishop and laid it all on the line. He was VERY empathetic and I received no chastisement for my past. I just needed to ask for the forgiveness and it was given. The torture that I had put myself through for my sins was far worse than the church would have and I had to do some fasting and praying, had to refrain from the sacrament for a month of Sundays and I had to go back in to interview with the Bishop again just so that he could see if I needed any more help with my process. I won't say its painless but I know that the pain I felt was all from me. Now some sins will require a little more help, even if they were 10 years ago... adultry, abuse, etc... but the key in repentance is the desire to be forgiven and to finally and for all time, forsake them and never return to the patterns or sins that you were stuck in.

Repentance is really "having to admit the whole truth about yourself". This is my definition. Once you can admit those truths and are willing to forsake them for God... its a HUGE relief and repentance is out of nothing but love.

BTW... anyone that is excomm'd can come back. Its a process and its not easy but once you get the issues behind you and you focus on being the new repaired person that you needed to be, its a whole new world for you. The burdens are taken away and its literally like being a whole new person... and WHOLE is the operative word.

Hope that helps

Grant

[Guest slippers]

I have a friend who went to the bishop about a sin committed 12 years prior. He told her that in her case, she had been through enough guilt and repentance and was forgiven for her fall....she had shown humility and dedication for quite some time and all was forgiven, then gave her a temple recommend.

[cgrantreed]

Repentance Directory at LDS.org

Great story called Power to Change... It really is for your benefit...

Search for Excommunication at LDS.org

I found this article in the above listed search and its cut and paste from a Q&A article. Hope this helps a little too.

“What are the reasons for and the process of excommunication?”

Robert L. Simpson, “Q&A: Questions and Answers,” New Era, July 1975, 47–48

Answer/Elder Robert L. Simpson

Regaining the presence of God, the Eternal Father, is what membership in this Church is all about. Eternal life or exaltation should be the goal and objective of every Latter-day Saint. Recognizing the hazards and pitfalls of mortality and the power of the adversary to deceive and persuade in wrong directions, a kind and understanding Heavenly Father has provided a process by which we might receive the help we need to cleanse ourselves and to make the necessary corrections. This pathway is commonly referred to as repentance. All of Heavenly Father’s children have need of this principle in their lives from time to time. When the irregularity has been major, the Church court system plays an important role in helping the transgressor to find his way back. It is all for our benefit and blessing.

The bishops court and the high council court have properly been referred to as courts of love. The sole purpose of a Church court is to bring about in the Lord’s way a spiritual judgment for every Church member that will hopefully eliminate for all time an irregularity or transgression that could prevent him from the ultimate blessing of exaltation.

The Lord’s plan is totally positive. His work and his glory is to provide a way whereby as many of his children as possible may return to his holy presence as family units (Moses 1:39), there to share in all that the Father has (D&C 84:33–39). He has no process or plan designed to block the progress of any of his children. His goal is singular; his work and his glory is that all might be edified and exalted.

The process of Church court discipline might well be likened to fresh, clean water that is ever flushing out the constantly forming cesspools of sin and corruption common to mortality and continually thrust upon man by the power of Satan.

All Church members who have need to repent must first of all find the courage to seek out their priesthood leaders for help. Relatively few transgressors are excommunicated. Some are disfellowshiped for a season; many, many more are quietly placed on probation by the bishop or stake president. The great majority of those who talk to their priesthood leaders about their personal problems are worked with confidentially without even the need for a court hearing or a formal disciplinary action. The attitude of the individual is all important as he comes to his priesthood authority. If we seek help and correction with a contrite spirit and an unmistakable desire to do right, the priesthood leader can frequently bring about the miracle of forgiveness without the need for court action. This is particularly true of those who are in the beginning stages of transgression and particularly those young people who have fallen prey to the adversary on a one-time or so-called experimental basis.

When excommunication from the Church is necessary, however, we must not regard the penalty as an end to all blessings and eternal possibilities. Even excommunication, serious as it is, can have the effect of restoring the proper perspective of the offender. Once deprived of Church membership, it is interesting to note how vitally important rebaptism becomes. The truly repentant excommunicated person will strive diligently to regain the waters of baptism. In the Church there are scores of members who have earned their way back into the Church through true repentance and who now stand on more firm ground than ever before in their lives. They have learned their lesson well. They are not likely to make the same mistake again; and surely the blessings of eternity are once again a possibility, thanks to the sanctifying influence of true repentance coupled with the miracle of forgiveness.

A bishop has the authority to convene a bishops court. The court consists of the ward bishopric, and they may consider the matter of excommunication for any member of the Church living in the ward except for one who holds the Melchizedek Priesthood. The bishops court, however, may render a decision of disfellowshipment for any member of the ward, including Melchizedek Priesthood holders. This court may also place any ward member regardless of priesthood status on probation.

The high council court under the direction of the stake president consists of the stake presidency and members of the high council. This court has the authority to conduct hearings for any member of the Church residing in the stake, including both Aaronic and Melchizedek Priesthood holders, and also the authority to impose a decision of excommunication where appropriate. Church members to be tried are notified in advance of the date, the hour, and the place the court will convene. The court should convene in the attitude of fasting and prayer. Total justice in harmony with the revealed word of the Lord should be the prime objective of the court. Judgment that is too light or too harsh often defeats the purposes of the Lord. A fair hearing and a final decision of the court that is ratified by the gifts of the Spirit will always be in the best interest of the member being tried. It is usually those who are so far removed from the spirit of truth as to be imperceptive to the love of Christ and the need for proper priesthood reprimand who leave the Church court with belligerence and ill feeling toward their priesthood leaders. These people are seldom sorry for what they have done but only sorry they have been caught.

Excommunication need not be the end of all hope. Although the mistake has been grievous and a serious violation of God’s commandments, a person who really loves the Lord and has the desire and the fortitude to now do right can most often reestablish his life and in due process and time may possibly qualify himself for the lofty and ultimate blessings of exaltation.

There are very few reasons for excommunication in this Church. I can only think of three.

Church members can become candidates for excommunication as they involve themselves in gross iniquity.

Church members become candidates for excommunication as they become involved in or advocate plural marriage.

Church members become candidates for excommunication as they apostatize from the teachings of the Church.

Gross iniquity involves such transgressions as murder, adultery, sexual perversion, or serious civil court conviction such as a felony.

It should also be made clear that an apostate is not an indifferent or an inactive member of the Church but rather one who flatly denies the divine nature of the Church or one who is antagonistic against or unresponsive to his priesthood authority.

Where serious transgression requires a court hearing, may I promise you that the procedure is kind and gentle. The Church court system is just; and as has been stated on many occasions, these are courts of love with the singular objective of helping Church members to get back on a proper course.

[parsnips]

Can you be excommunicated from the church if you disagree vocally with some doctrines?

[cgrantreed]

Can you be excommunicated from the church if you disagree vocally with some doctrines?

As a general rule... No. However, If you are standing up for something despicable there may be some consequences. Lots of people don't completely agree with something in the church, the attitude of someone that is attending there or whatever. Its important to remember that excommunication is for HARSH offenses. A cup of coffee or verbally flogging the Bishop that you don't personally like is not an excomm'able offense.

These disputes of doctrine is what often causes someone to leave the church but I have never heard of someone actually being kicked out because they didn't understand or believe completely in a doctrinal question. I have heard it used as an EXCUSE but its not valid for the most part. Something else had to have happened that was far worse than that.

[cnnbotha]

You should read 'The Mirracle Of Forgiveness' by Spencer W. Kimball. It gives you a great explaination on all the questions you might have on repentence.

It takes real courage to talk to the bishop about serious transgressions, but it is the only way to truely repent, even if you keep making the same mistake, go back everytime. Your Bishop is there to help you and he deals with a lot of cases, the spirit will lead him in each case.

[Andrew777]

Delete

[Guest Malcolm]

You seek forgiveness from our Heavenly Father for past sins and plead within in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, to free you from sin and the remembrance of it. If you embrace the Gospel, have a testimony of the Restoration and the work to come about in these the last days, if you are ready to receive baptism by the hands of the priesthood and hold on to the end then you are ready.

Now, if those sins are grave enough to require answering for them and satisfying the requirements of the law (legal system) then you should talk to the Bishop and seek his counsel.

All that are converts were hurt and heavy laden by sin. And yes, thru the Atonement and baptism we were healed and made whole. Move forward and fear not but seek what you know by now to be the truth and the Lord will free your heart.

[cnnbotha]

Hi Andrew

The Lord knows what is in our hearts and only He can forgive us for our sins. However, He has given us certain steps in the scriptures to follow in order to repent properly of our sins. We do not have to confess our sins to the bishop at all times, only in really serious cases where our sins influences other people. Like fornication, adultry, breaking the law etc. Also sins that we struggle to overcome that we feel we need help with, we can confess to our bishop to get his guidence.

The first step of repentence is sorrow, we need to have sorrowed to repentance. (2 Corinthians 7:9-11)

The second step is to confess your sins(Numbers 5:7), to whomever you may have offended or to your bishop or to God or all of the above depending on the sin. If for instance you have spoken badly about someone behind that persons back and you are really sorry about it, you need to go to the person and confess to them, then you have to go to the people who you went to to gossip about this person and try to rectify what ever harm you have done. This is the next step in repentence

So the third step in repentence is restitution, you have to make right whatever you have done wrong. In cases like sexual sins, it is not really possible to make right that which has been done and therefore sins like that need to be confessed to the bishop in order to get guidence on repentance for those sins, to make it right as far as you can.

The fourth Step is forsaking the sin, meaning that you will never do that sin again.

These are the steps to true repentence which all members should know. We know how to truely repent, therefore it is a requirement that we follow those steps in order to receive real forgiveness.

I hope this was helpful

There are scripture references to all of these steps, I just did not have my scriptures with me, so if you want these references I could get them.

[Palerider]

Can you be excommunicated from the church if you disagree vocally with some doctrines?

please define what you mean by vocally.....or just how you would do this vocally????

[Andrew777]

Delete

[Snow]

Here's one view of excommunication:

Excommunication - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Maya]

Just thinking that IF all of us who what to join the LDS Church if we all had to tell ALL our past trespases...the bishops would be very much buzy listening to us for the next few years. The fact that we want to get babtised shows that we have repended and are asking for forgiveness for all our past sins and that we are ready to let them go. Joining is NOT of what we have done, but what we are willing to do with our lifes onwarth!

Like someone here said there are however things one HAS to face before babtisement that is if one has done something that the law says one has to go to jail for... then we have to go to jail for it before babtizing. The case of sheding innocent blood will be posponed to later excistence.

[Guest Malcolm]

No I don't need scripture I already know what it says and it is what you've listed and what I've done. I had just wondered as someone had told me I'd need to "re-confess" and I just thought that was an odd idea since I've already done what I think is needed. Thanks guys for your answers.

There is no need for such things as "re-confession" in our church. Unless you have committed a crime that requires answering before the law and the Bishop will ask you before baptism, ALL you are required to do is confess to the Lord your sins, seek sincere repentance and desire such thru baptism.

You will receive lessons thru the missionaries and several principles will be taught to you. If you declare in faith and it truth that you understand them and that you promise to abide by them and live from that point forward according to such principles you are good to go, my brother. The Lords looks forward to embracing you in His kingdom and so am I.

[TerriAnn]

If you are excommunicated, who knows about this? Will members of the ward find out?

[mnn727]

If you are excommunicated, who knows about this? Will members of the ward find out?

No, it is kept silent on the Churches part, although the excommunicated member will not have a calling, nor be able to partake of the Sacrament. They also do not pay tithing, nor will they be call upon to give public prayer at the opening or closing of meetings.

The Bishop and his counselors will know about it as will anyone involved in the excommunication (Stake Presidency, Stake High Council)

[Carl62]

No, it is kept silent on the Churches part, although the excommunicated member will not have a calling, nor be able to partake of the Sacrament. They also do not pay tithing, nor will they be call upon to give public prayer at the opening or closing of meetings.

The Bishop and his counselors will know about it as will anyone involved in the excommunication (Stake Presidency, Stake High Council)

Aren't teachers in Sunday School and Priesthood/Relief Society notified of the ex-communication on account of making sure that they don't ask the person to pray? This is what I was told.

[Carl62]

If you are excommunicated, who knows about this? Will members of the ward find out?

It would be nice and living in a perfect world if we could know for certain that nobody will find out but unfortunately, in more cases than not, all it takes is for just one gossipy person (and I don't care what anybody says because yes every ward usually has one) in the ward to find out and blow the lid off the whole thing. Heck, just from people talking in casual conversation and without my even inquiring, I've found out disciplinary things that have happened to people that I knew from other wards and even other stakes. Sad but true.

[Hemidakota]

I've got a few questions on this subject.

1. What is the process of repentence? When can you pray and repent on your own? And when do you need to go to your bishop? (this is a biggie for my husband. he doesn't understand why we have to repent through a bishop...frankly, neither do i. I'd saw it is one of his top three reasons why he isn't excited about the lds faith.)

2. Do bishops make annual appointments to meet with every member of the ward or is that just torture they put teens through? (I'm joking on the torture part....well sort of...some of the questions as a kid were agonizing and embarassing)

3. What does somebody do to be excommunicated? I know one person who was excommunicated for adultery, but he was married in the temple. What other things do the lds excommunicate for?

4. Are the standards for being excommunicated different/higher for someone that has been through the temple than for someone who has not?

5. Do I really have to repent for things I did 10 years ago? Isn't going back to church enough? I say this somewhat jokingly, but seriously, I've got some pretty major things in my past. Plus, I've done a lot of asking for forgiveness on my own. I don't really want to repeat my sins to someone else. It's humiliating?

Any answers/input is appreciated! Thanks

Purchase the book from a wonderful friend and brother, Spencer W. Kimball that is called, ‘Miracle of Forgiveness’. It may be helpful to your questions and cause.

What you need to remember, if a active member of the church who does not murder and commit the unpardonable sin can be forgiven by the Master, so can you.