Party loyalty

[JohnBirchSociety]

Property. It comes down to property. The ONLY reason for the existence of the law is to ensure the right and and the safety of property for ALL citizens. Everything else is an apendage of that principle.

Without such fundamental protection we are at the mercy of those that will not think twice before plundering from one to give it another or to enrich themselves.

Real Money is real property. Unfortunately we haven't had real money in nearly 100 years. Ironically, we're "paying" the price dearly for our phony money.

[sgallan]

Imagine earning real money that doesn't depreciate in value over time.

Imagine no income tax.

Imagine no undeclared "wars".

Imagine no foreign aid.

Imagine no Social Security.

Imagine no Medicaid / Medical.

Imagine no welfare-state.

Imagine no EPA.

Imagine no gun-control.

Imagine no legal abortions.

Imagine no Judicial legislation.

Imagine a Congress that follows its' constitutional duties.

Imagine a President who doesn't ignore the constitution.

Actually in your libertarian political world things like welfare, evironmental protection, and abortions would still be there, they just wouldn't be under the purview of the federal government.

[a-train]

For the most important issue we made is from 1776 until 1913, and partially 'til 1973.

What many do not know is one of the major tenets of the Constitution is real money. We had that until 1913 (except for a period during the Civil War).

Take away real money, and the people cease to be truly free.

Don't forget the dreadful 1965 when all the Silver Dollars, Quarters, and Dimes were first made of copper/nickel clad. Those 90% Silver planchets up through 1964 are 18 times their face value today.

-a-train

[a-train]

Actually in your libertarian political world things like welfare, evironmental protection, and abortions would still be there, they just wouldn't be under the purview of the federal government.

And that is the beauty of it!

-a-train

[Traveler]

Perhaps I'm old school, despite my youthful age, but I am mostly a party loyalist. This year I've already made my decision to support the presumptive nominee. S/he was not my first, or even my 2nd choice. Nevertheless, I can agree with the nominee-2-B much more than not, and I do see a passion and an independence that the country hungers for. Additionally, while my 2 favorites didn't make it, this individual that will lead my party does, by far, represent my values and those of my party better than whichever opponent on the other side ends the contender.

But wait! You tell me the selection process is not complete...idealism can still be in play. Not for me. I am a party man. I'd rather get behind the one who is clearly going to win--knowing that s/he needs support to win in November.

Sometimes, for the sake of the party, and the overarching values, your willing to take the candidate that you'd score a B, over the one you would give the A+.

Color me old school and a compromiser. But for me, being a party loyalist, baring an absolute abdication of the party platform--is a form of idealism. Yeah...I'm a party loyalist.

Is it ironic that you, and Evangelical, express this political ideology when it is the “Evangelical” candidate that continues to run against the unity of his party? Please to not see this as an endorsement or un-endorsement of any candidate on my behalf.

BTW – it is my personal belief that this country will not move forward with good candidates until the current political process controlled by the two party system breaks down to the point it cannot be repaired, which is beginning to appear to not be as far in the future as I previously thought.

The Traveler

[Traveler]

Real Money is real property. Unfortunately we haven't had real money in nearly 100 years. Ironically, we're "paying" the price dearly for our phony money.

The problem with the theory of “real money” is that there are not enough precious medals to support and back the wealth and population of modern society. Also with the advent of electricity (about the same time as the demise of “real money”) the most dominate precious medals (gold and silver) became more valuable in precise electronic circuits than as money.

The Traveler

[a-train]

BTW – it is my personal belief that this country will not move forward with good candidates until the current political process controlled by the two party system breaks down to the point it cannot be repaired, which is beginning to appear to not be as far in the future as I previously thought.

Right thar witcha on that one bud.

-a-train

[skalenfehl]

I'm not right or left, but I am conservative. I'm not terribly politically savvy, but it seems to me that neither are what they used to be or should be. I guess that makes me an Independent. Even our founding fathers were neither, but rather patriots.

[Elphaba]

Even our founding fathers were neither, but rather patriots.

I probably lean to the left more than anyone else I know on this board. However, I consider myself as patriotic as the next person. My country's success and survival is critical to me.

I know you did not purposely imply some of us were not patriotic. I just wanted to provide the perspective that while we all participate in the political process in different ways, I suspect every US citizen is a patriot, but I am hesitant to say "every."

I am comfortable, however, with saying "every," when I speak of the people on this board that I have interacted with in political discussions. We rarely agree, but we are all true patriots who care deeply about our country.

Elphaba

[skalenfehl]

Indeed I didn't imply that, thanks for understanding. My point is that our founding fathers were not politicians. They were your basic average, middle-aged, God fearing men willing to give their lives for God and country and not seek positions of power as politicians do today, forming parties and party lines, etc. I wonder what they would think of today's congress...

[prisonchaplain]

We're considering moving from a place where the local property tax is about $2500 per year, to one where it is $6800. Why? Better PUBLIC schools. Maybe I'm a national conservative and a local moderate?

[skalenfehl]

There's gotta be a give and take, though. Lower/no sales tax? And hey, nothing wrong with paying taxes for a better education. At least you know (or hope) that is where the money is going.

[a-train]

I'm not right or left, but I am conservative. I'm not terribly politically savvy, but it seems to me that neither are what they used to be or should be. I guess that makes me an Independent. Even our founding fathers were neither, but rather patriots.

It's called libertarian. Welcome home.

-a-train

[skalenfehl]

It's called libertarian. Welcome home.

-a-train

How 'bout that? I'll have to check that out.

[miztrniceguy]

It's called libertarian. Welcome home.

-a-train

sad thing tho...name the last Liberterian to be elected president?

i don't like either of the top 2 candidates from either dems or repubs...but i don't think a 3rd party candidate has a chance.

i guess i hope that the worst dem candidate is elected, and messes things up so royally in 4 yrs, that someone who dropped out or a new repub will show up to fix things in 2012.

[a-train]

sad thing tho...name the last Liberterian to be elected president?

I think Reagan was as libertarian as he could get away with.

I personally am not a member of any party. I don't know of one, not even

Official Website of the Libertarian National Committee that I agree with on every last point of the platform. Still, I'd say it is probably the closest.

I think much of Christian America could swing that way if abortion and gay rights were treated differently. It hurts me to see so much of Christianity, including the LDS people, sucked into the neconservative movement because of mainly those two issues.

This is especially ironic for the LDS people. As a group that was bitterly rejected and persecuted both socially and legally because of marriage customs, I would think we would not be supportive of any further restrictions on love relations. I want to see the government get out of marriage regulation altogether. I see no benefit in it. The so-called idea that government regulation of marriage will preserve it is hilarious. Did the federal ban against polygamy lower the divorce rate or expand the health of the relationship of couples?

The abortion issue comes down to the question of at what developmental stage of a human being's existance does the government and society become obligated to protect his or her right to life. Until we can answer this question, the abortion issue will rage.

I hope that conservative America can at least see how far off the neoconservative movement is and come back toward liberty.

-a-train