Revelations 22:18

[kona0197]

So how do you explain this passage? I believe it pertains to the whole Bible.

[Guest tomk]

So how do you explain this passage? I believe it pertains to the whole Bible.

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

It means just what it says.

Deut. 4: 2 (2-3). 2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

3 Ne. 11: 40 (39-40). 40 And whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil, and is not built upon my rock; but he buildeth upon a sandy foundation, and the gates of hell stand open to receive such when the floods come and the winds beat upon them.

D&C 20: 35 (35-36). 35 And we know that these things are true and according to the revelations of John, neither adding to, nor diminishing from the prophecy of his book, the holy scriptures, or the revelations of God which shall come hereafter by the gift and power of the Holy Ghost, the voice of God, or the ministering of angels.

LISTEN TO THE WORDS OF YOUR REDEEMER, JESUS CHRIST:

2 Ne. 29: 8-9

8 Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also.

9 And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.

[skalenfehl]

tomk said it just right.

The book of Revelations was written by John, arguably before he even wrote the book of John. The bible texts were not all canonized progressively. There was no "old testament" when Christ was born and there was no "new testament" when the apostles were killed off. It was much later that all those texts were later canonized into one large book of scripture as you have now. Therefore, John was not referring to the whole Bible, for even he did not have the entire canon as you and I have now. It didn't exist.

[kona0197]

I still think the verse was meant as a warning to adding on the the Bible.

That's part of the reason I have never prayed about weather or not the BOM is true. That and there is no physical proof about any of the stuff in the BOM. Any 2nd Nephi 29 bothers me. How would people back in 33 AD know about the Bible?

[skalenfehl]

The Book of Revelations was written approx. AD 96 on the isle of Patmos

The Book of John was written approx 98 AD in or around Ephesus

1 John, 2nd John, and 3rd John were all written approx 98 AD in or around Ephesus

So you can see that even John added to the "Book of Revelations" if you want to go by your reasoning.

[skalenfehl]

How would people back in 33 AD know about the Bible?

Back in 33 AD there was no Bible. There were just the writings of the prophets. Christ had just been crucified and resurrected about this time and His disciples were still visiting neighboring lands and writing their epistles.

[Guest tomk]

I still think the verse was meant as a warning to adding on the the Bible.

That's part of the reason I have never prayed about weather or not the BOM is true. That and there is no physical proof about any of the stuff in the BOM. Any 2nd Nephi 29 bothers me. How would people back in 33 AD know about the Bible?

How could they know?

Uh, God could tell them?

[kona0197]

Sorry. To easy. Rather I think JS made it up and put it in there.

[prisonchaplain]

I still think the verse was meant as a warning to adding on the the Bible.

That's part of the reason I have never prayed about weather or not the BOM is true. That and there is no physical proof about any of the stuff in the BOM. Any 2nd Nephi 29 bothers me. How would people back in 33 AD know about the Bible?

Kona, John wrote the Revelation under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. At the time the New Testament had not been canonized yet. The compilation we use now was not even formally put together for at least a century after John's work. So, John's warning would pertain mainly to his own book, and then secondarily to the other books of Scripture. In other words, NO TAMPERING WITH THE BOOKS OF THE BIBLE!

Whether the canon of Scripture is closed or not is a separate issue. The arguments of non-LDS (like myself) for a closed canon come more from the fact that there were no more writings recognized by the churches, than from John's warning.

[Guest tomk]

So, if I am understanding you right, a more complex answer would satisfy you?

That's a bit messed up.

[skalenfehl]

kona, how can we take you seriously? We can't presume to share the gospel from the Book of Mormon or the Bible, for that matter, when truth be known, it is obvious that you really don't understand the Bible. Be reasonable. I wonder why you are really here?

[kona0197]

I have always belied in the Bible. It's the BOM and other Church teaching I have an issue with as I need real proof to prove they are true. Something more than a prayer.

Please do not ask why I am here - I take great offense to that comment. I'm here because I want to be here.

[havejoy]

Kona, Are you trying to NOT be offensive when you say things like " I think JS made it up and put it in there."?

[skalenfehl]

Please do not ask why I am here - I take great offense to that comment. I'm here because I want to be here.

And we welcome you here. Please return the courtesy. And next time you pm me, be nice.

[Guest tomk]

Kona:

Let's all take a breath.

What we are trying to say is that, here in this forum, using words alone, we cannot "PROVE" to you that the BOM is true.

Why? Because it is not "proveable" in that manner.

Per Moroni 10:3-5 --- God HIMSELF has reserved the right unto Himself to "prove" the truth of the book unto you.

Since we adhere to the teachings of the Book of Mormon -- including Moroni 10:3-5 -- it is not our place to prove the book's truthfulness unto you:

3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.

4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

Notice it says he will manifest the truth of it [The Book of Mormon] unto you, not TomK or anyone else in this forum.

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

[Guest Seraphim]

I have always belied in the Bible. It's the BOM and other Church teaching I have an issue with as I need real proof to prove they are true. Something more than a prayer.

Please do not ask why I am here - I take great offense to that comment. I'm here because I want to be here.

Whatever your reason is for being here, you are expected to be respectful.

Seraphim

[kona0197]

I was being respectful. I don't think you have seen me be disrespectful yet.

[Guest Seraphim]

Calling church members crazy and brainwashed is certainly disrespectful. So is telling another person that they are unattractive.

Seraphim

[BenRaines]

Can someone tell me where to find the book of Revelations? I know that there is one book of Revelation given to John as he describes it but can't find that book of Revelations.

Ben Raines

[skalenfehl]

Can someone tell me where to find the book of Revelations? I know that there is one book of Revelation given to John as he describes it but can't find that book of Revelations.

Ben Raines

Apologies, I was referring to "The Revelation of St. John the Divine" found after Jude in the New Testament (KJV).

[Guest tomk]

It is the last book in the King James version of the Bible (New Testament).

Try this link:

Revelation 1

[BenRaines]

tomk, you missed the humor in my statement. I know where the book of revelation is. Many often call it the book of revelations as in this threa. No book of revelations found in Bible.

Ben Raines

[Guest tomk]

tomk, you missed the humor in my statement. I know where the book of revelation is. Many often call it the book of revelations as in this threa. No book of revelations found in Bible.

Ben Raines

Yep...I totally missed it!

Sorry!

[Shade]

I have always belied in the Bible. It's the BOM and other Church teaching I have an issue with as I need real proof to prove they are true. Something more than a prayer.

wow, ok, that's interesting…

what i'm hearing you say is that you DO believe in the Bible - and by this i infer that you believe that our HF teaches truth through prayer and revelation by the power of the Holy Spirit - but that what you have learned in the Bible is not enough?

should i believe that your testimony of the Bible is based purely on physical evidence of its truthfulness? or am i misunderstanding your statement wrt the truthfulness of the Bible and its teachings?

here's a beautiful letter from Paul to the Ephesians in which he speaks of revelation and faith. nowhere does he AT ALL refer to any physical evidence being a requirement for the Holy Spirit of revelation to be able to perform His task…

THE EPISTLE OF PAUL THE APOSTLE TO THE

EPHESIANS

CHAPTER 3

1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.

14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

how do you interpret this letter of counsel from the apostle Paul?

[kona0197]

I no longer wish to discuss this topic. Sorry guys.