Newbie questions

[Vanessa2]

Dirk, I've been taught that you pray until you feel like praying. You pay your full tithe until you feel like paying your full tithe. You go to church even when you don't want to go. Sometimes, by going through the actions for a short while will show the Lord you are willing to be obedient, but that you need the strength and faith to sustain it. I know he will accommodate you, if that is the desire of your heart.

Kamper, back to you wanting a church that is part of your every day life. Our previous prophet, who recently passed away, once said that the symbol of our faith (the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) is not he recognized Crucifix, but the lives of our people. I've thought about that a lot and it's true. The symbol of our church is how faithful members of the church live their lives every day: with faith, compassion, service, sacrifice, love, and more.

[ztodd]

thank you all for your thoughts testimony and advice

to ztodd: yes i have a budget, keep records of everything shy of going to the barber, and quite frankly 88% of my nett paycheck is spent every month before i ever see it. now i can live comfortably off the remaining 12 % but i cant pay 10% gross using 12% nett

That does sound really tough. Perhaps the Lord may not require you to pay 10% on your full gross, since you don't have control over most of it. If I were in that position, I'm not sure I would consider the full gross amount as my own personal increase to be tithed. Of course it's ultimately between you and the Lord. I really don't know what conclusion I would be able to come to in that situation to satisfy my conscience. Sorry I'm not a lot of help, but I pray for you, and I commend you for you trying to be obedient.

[Guest Kamperfoelie]

thank you all for your kind / insightful / useful advice.

like mentioned before in the thread, i ve been looking into getting in touch with a local community, but i had kind of mixed feelings about it.

Its a big step and though everything ive seen on this site has given me 'a good feeling' (sort of sense i should move forward) im a great fan of taking babysteps, going slowly.

As such id kind of decided for myself to get in touch only with someone from a different town (then if things bounce the wrong way, you wont wind up meeting eachother in the streets everyday, and getting all awkward)

That said, i just got off the phone to a community some 20 miles from my hometown, where i've asked for a meeting... and the first thing the man did was to say he d refer me to someone closer by , he agreed some people like to meet on 'neutral ground' at first, but that it was something for me to sort out with the local missionaries.

Also the word missionaries as its used on this site, and by the man i spoke with is kind of surprising to me: when i think of missionaries i think the dark dangerous jungles of afrika, or rafting up the amazon, looking for previously undiscovered tribes of indians. then i saw someone here saying they'd done their mission in the UK... which led me to think what undiscoverd tribes he might have found when he rafted up the Thames river

anyway, bit jittery now, cant help but look at phone like a sort of timebomb now, could go off at any moment with missionaries on other end... i no its a good thing, thats not what im worried about, but what if i pick up and have some kind of tourettes moment and start blurting all the wrong things out? feeling like going for job interview only bigger and more important.

anyway, thought id share this update, thanks again for words of wisdom

[WillowTheWhisp]

The missionaries will probably be just as nervous as you, but nervous excitement at the thought of someone who actually wants to know about the Church. Don't worry. Be relaxed about it.

[JLFuller]

You are no different than anyone else. Don't worry about having a bad experience and being unable to see someone on the street. We all have good and marginal experiences with people in and out of the church. You will not be thought less of if you don't find it is right for you at the current time or ever.

One of the things you will learn is that you are entitled to direct confirmation of this work by the Holy Ghost. This is not the posession of any one person or group of a few. It is your heritage. You knew it in your pre-mortal life and you will again live it in one form or another in the next life. You are God's son and He requires that we provide it to you. It is up to you to accept or reject it. If you accept it and gain a testimony of it's truthfulness then you too will be required to pass it on to others. Some will accept it and some will not. You will thrill when others do and feel hopeful if they don't. Our job is not convert - that is the Holy Ghost's job. Our job is to seek out and plant the seed and nourish it once it starts to grow.

If you are like many other adult converts, you will find something different in your life. You will begin a process of change that will last your entire life. Bit by bit the old thinking and ways of doing things will change. Your influence on others will change too. They may comment on something different about you but not be sure what it is. Inside you will know that it is the influence of the Holy Ghost.

Over time, your old self will be changed into a new person. The closer you follow the commandments the closer you will become to your Heavenly Father through the power and influence of the Holy Ghost. His presence will become so sweet that the thought of breaking a commandment will become awful to think of. You will hate the feeling of His withdrawl from you that sin brings. When you live the commandments, the spirit of contention will disappear. You will also get to know and understand the power that comes from repentance.

That is one thing we can do that angels can't. You will continue to sin. It is a part of the human condition. God understands that and has made repentance the mechanism by which we all can access Christ's atonement and forgiveness. In a way, the bitterness of sin and the peace repentance brings leads us to a better understanding of and joy for what our Savior did.

This is a marvelous journey you are about to engage upon if you choose to do so. It can change your life and just as importantly, change the lives of your family and children and their children for generations to come.

[avatar4321]

I wanted to answer the tithing question.

Tithing is paid by faith. You do what you can to make do while paying a tithe and if there are problems, then God has promised you He will prove Himself if you pay tithing. And the blessings are worth more than 10%.

[aisling]

when thinking about any change or growth that we try to create within ourselves, i think of the scripture d&c29,31,32,and 34. for by the power of my spirit created i them, yea,all things both spiritual and temporal-first spiritual,second temporal, which is the begining of my work;and again,first temporal,and secondly spiritual,which is the last of my work-...all things are unto me spiritual, and at no time have i given you a law which was temporal...at first, we learn and consider the comandment. tithing may not work on paper or in our pocket, but then we begin to alow hope and faith that mabe heavenly father will do as he has said he would do. this change is the change or beginings of growth in our spirit , it is created spiritualy. then we exersize that faith, and pay the tithing , the temporal action . then heavenly father creates a temporal change in his love for us and his joy that we have trusted in him, and ways we couldnt percieve open up to provide blessings ; and each full tithe payer can testify that the windows of heaven have opened for them in unexpected ways. congradulations for taking the steps to reach out to the gospel, you will find you are comming home to a new home and family . welcome

[Hemidakota]

thank you all for your kind / insightful / useful advice.

like mentioned before in the thread, i ve been looking into getting in touch with a local community, but i had kind of mixed feelings about it.

Its a big step and though everything ive seen on this site has given me 'a good feeling' (sort of sense i should move forward) im a great fan of taking babysteps, going slowly.

As such id kind of decided for myself to get in touch only with someone from a different town (then if things bounce the wrong way, you wont wind up meeting eachother in the streets everyday, and getting all awkward)

That said, i just got off the phone to a community some 20 miles from my hometown, where i've asked for a meeting... and the first thing the man did was to say he d refer me to someone closer by , he agreed some people like to meet on 'neutral ground' at first, but that it was something for me to sort out with the local missionaries.

Also the word missionaries as its used on this site, and by the man i spoke with is kind of surprising to me: when i think of missionaries i think the dark dangerous jungles of afrika, or rafting up the amazon, looking for previously undiscovered tribes of indians. then i saw someone here saying they'd done their mission in the UK... which led me to think what undiscoverd tribes he might have found when he rafted up the Thames river

anyway, bit jittery now, cant help but look at phone like a sort of timebomb now, could go off at any moment with missionaries on other end... i no its a good thing, thats not what im worried about, but what if i pick up and have some kind of tourettes moment and start blurting all the wrong things out? feeling like going for job interview only bigger and more important.

anyway, thought id share this update, thanks again for words of wisdom

Thanks for the update.

[Guest Kamperfoelie]

Last week i met with the missionaries, two very polite young men from Utah, and asked them many questions, all of which they answered to the best of their ability.

i was sooo struck with their... (whats the word?) verve? or conviction perhaps? also the fact that God is openly debatable (in a good sense) was amazing. I've been to church before, and hardly anyone there was the least bit interested in God. Okay they sang Him some songs, and a churchleader spoke a few words from the bible, but it felt very tame and noncommital.

As such I was very impressed with being able to ask about the details of the LDS faith. In my experience, many people, even so-called christians will raise their eyebrows when you talk about God, as if you´re being silly. As if faith in God is akin to believing in Santa. Instead, these young men took my questions to heart, and answered with a sincerity and a wisdom you (ok...: I ) would not expect to see in such youngsters.

Anyways, they gave me a BoM, and invited me to come to church. I did and was blown away. For one, there was teaching: people were actually trying to get to know and understand the words and ways of God. Come to think of it, its quite surprising more churches havent thought of that

Later there was testimony, grown men and women telling of their walk with God. Open and unabashed they spoke and shed tears of awe and gratitude.

Now i may not know much of this faith yet, or read as much of the BoM as i could have done, but I cant deny there has to be something here, something true and powerful. I figure: people so full of joy and zeal have to have something the rest just dont.

After the service they asked me if i d like to come back again!! i was so surprised they would even ask! Like: duh!

Anyway, i just needed to share this, so there you go.

Greetz,

[Hemidakota]

Congrats to your first missionary discussions.

Not only to know the scriptures but try to reform by actions.

In our home, our own children discussed different topics about GOD. I am glad to see that there is an interest with them in seeking the truth.

Thanks again for the warm update.

[Hurrah_for_Israel]

how does tithing work? i mean obviously... but what if you cant afford to tithe? if you re living hand to mouth, and there's less than 10% room between your monthly bills and your paycheck? let alone room to eat and tithe? is there a workaround or something?

Tithing isn't optional. It is 10%, no more, no less. Even a widow's mite is acceptable to the Lord. He doesn't need our money (which, if you think about it, is already His), He is asking for our will and our obedience. It is one of the requirements to obtain a temple recommend. It might seem to be a daunting task--believe me, I know how it is to only have enough money to either pay rent or pay tithing. Or to either eat this week or give my 10%. But "I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them" (1 Ne. 3:7). I don't know how it works out, but it always does -- it is godly math.

Here is the way I see it: imagine Heavenly Father standing in front of you, offering to give you everything in His hand for the dime in your hand. It's a risk--what if I give up "my" dime and there isn't anything in His hand? But what if I give up my ten cents and get a dollar? Our natural reaction might be to trust ourselves first because we can see the dime with our eyes. What we don't know until after releasing our tight grip on that dime, however, is that His hand holds a $10 bill. Remember that the blessings don't always come in monetary values, either. Malachi 3:8-12 says that above and beyond temporal stability, the windows of heaven will be opened unto us, and that the Lord will rebuke the devourer for us (which, to me, means protection from anything or anyone that could hurt me).

Paying our tithing takes faith, and faith, to be faith, must be tested. But as you exercise your faith, you will see blessings and miracles you could not comprehend. The witness will come to you.

[Brother Dorsey]

Kamperfoelie, I was once where you are now....so many questions and with each answer I wanted more. The fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is a "marvelous work and a wonder" (I love that quote). You have this yearning to learn more because the Spirit of the Lord is bearing testimony to your spirit of the truthfulness of what you are being taught. Believe it or not, these are truths that your spirit has longed for and actually recognizes. You will see how everything fits together so perfectly. You will learn line upon line and your spirit will rejoice. Others talk of having a personal relationship with the Lord, as LDS we really do as He is really the Father of our spirits. That is our divine connection. With modern revelation and the truth of the nature of God, He is so real to us...a real Father who loves us deeply, we can "talk" to him through prayer, we know He hears us and answers our prayers. We know that if He were to appear before us that we could touch Him and embrace Him as we would our Earthly fathers. Regarding a Temple recommend, patriarchal blessing, tithing etc., don't worry, you'll learn all about them in your journey. (BTW, you are not required to pay tithing until you become a member of the Lord's church) Also, it was a Prophet of God who recently said, "Pay your tithing, if you have not enough money left for food or other essential needs...go to your Bishop because he is responsible for your temporal and spiritual welfare." I testify to you right now that if you faithfully and obediently pay an honest tithe the Lord will bless you, you will have enough. Test the Lord....He will open the windows of Heaven. He's never failed me, ever.

Godspeed on your journey.....

[Vanhin]

Kamperfoelie,

I have really enjoyed reading about your experience so far. The missionaries, though they are young and often inexperienced, are called by God and set apart as teachers of the Gospel of Jesus Christ to those who are seeking truth. I would be delighted to hear more of your experience, so please continue to come by and keep us updated. :)

Sincerely,

Vanhin

[Heather]

Kamperfoelie, thanks so much for sharing your experiences!

[akandrus]

Kamperfoelie,

My wife and I were just reading your post and I couldn't help but think about an experience that I had when I was a young missionary in Venezuela. (Not quite the amazon with lost tribes but sometimes I thought that :) I remember a specific couple that was very poor. Their house was actually made of branches and grass and they lived as you expressed hand in mouth. I remember that in Venezuela it was very customary to have people invite the missionaries to eat with them, kind of an investment for blessings. A meal for this family generally was an egg and some rice as they couldn't afford anything else. I realized that when they would invite us to eat generally they just sat and watched us eat instead of eating with us. It took me a little while until I finally caught on that when we ate with them they didn't eat. They would give us their food because they didn't have enough to buy food for four. However, I also saw them faithfully paying their tithing. I knew them for about five months and watched as they consistently paid their tithing they were blessed. The husband found a better job and slowly things got better for them. I love the scripture Malachi left at the end of the Old Testament Malachi 3:8-11.

[Guest TheLutheran]

I've been to church before, and hardly anyone there was the least bit interested in God. Okay they sang Him some songs, and a churchleader spoke a few words from the bible, but it felt very tame and noncommital.

I'm sorry you had that experience at other churches but I'm thrilled that you have been touched by the Holy Spirit through the missionaries. The right denomination is the one that brings you closer to God.

[Hemidakota]

Which one would that one be?