I Was Wondering

[WillowTheWhisp]

Some of the quotes seem to have got out of synch on here so it's hard to tell who originally said what, which can be a little confusing. Would it be possible for a mod to tidy up the tags?

[HizWife625]

Smith minced no words in explaining his beliefs. "I will preach on the plurality of gods. I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see" ().

God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by his power, was to make himself visible

In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it.

The best men bring forth the best works.

All quotes from The King Follett Disclosure..............

Joseph Smith did preach polytheism.

Satan also told Eve she could be like God...........Ding Ding DIng Ding Ding ...........

[HizWife625]

Matt

Here is a good question...............Does the BoM have maps in it as the bible does? Where did the purported events of the Book of Mormon occurr?

If no, why not?

is there any archeological evidence of the BoM?

If no, why not?

IF yes, can any give me some ?

Dr. George Stuart, National Geographic, has answere this, as well as, the Smithsonian Institue.

Statement on the Book of Mormon"stats "American Indians had no wheat, barley, oats, millet, rice, cattle, pigs, chickens, horses, donkeys, camels before 1492." Also, "Iron, steel, glass, and silk were not used in the New World before 1492 (except for occasional use of unsmelted meteoric Iron)."

All of these items are mentioned in various places in the book of Mormon. So if the Book of Mormon is true, then when the supposed Lamanite and Nephite civilizations destroyed themselves, somehow all of these animals and plants must have also somehow become extinct and left no trace of ever existing. And all traces of the Lamanites’ and Nephites’ ability to make the items mentioned must have disappear and been unknown to others in the New World.

In comparison, the Inca and Mayan empires were destroyed long before Columbus came to America. But we know where their empires were located and the basics of their cultures. Civilizations as vast as these will inevitably leave behind some traces even after their downfalls. Also, many peoples and cities mentioned in the Bible were unknown of outside of the Bible until modern-day archeologists began to uncover their remains.

This might be good research for your paper. Food for thought.

[Vanhin]

Smith minced no words in explaining his beliefs. "I will preach on the plurality of gods. I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see" ().

God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by his power, was to make himself visible

In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it.

The best men bring forth the best works.

All quotes from The King Follett Disclosure..............

Joseph Smith did preach polytheism.

Yeah, that would have been a better quote to make matt's point, no doubt.

However, they are all quotes from second hand accounts of the King Follet Discourse. What is significant is that Joseph Smith had the authority to make all those things scripture, and add them to the Doctrine and Covenants; thus they would have become official doctrine of the Church, but he did not. Some parts he did.

Granted some of the things he said in that discourse, as written by those who were there, have been at least added to our lesson manuals. There's some truth there. But the part about God being not God at some point, is not in our scriptures, and is not our doctrine. What I quoted from the Book of Moses, as delivered through Joseph Smith, is our doctrine concerning God.

"I am the Lord God Almighty, and Endless is my name; for I am without beginning of days or end of years; and is not this endless?...but there is no God beside me, and all things are present with me, for I know them all."

What would it be like, if the enemies of the Church simply tried to argue the merits of our actual doctrine? The stuff that we teach in Sunday school, and has been canonized...

Here's another reminder:

Not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. A single statement made by a single leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, but is not meant to be officially binding for the whole Church. With divine inspiration, the First Presidency (the prophet and his two counselors) and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications. This doctrine resides in the four “standard works” of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith. Isolated statements are often taken out of context, leaving their original meaning distorted. (LDS Newsroom - Approaching Mormon Doctrine) <- Click and read the whole article so you know.

Regards,

Vanhin

[skalenfehl]

I think it's going to be important in the future for people to support their claims and references with direct sources. There are apologetic sites and there are pro sites and anti sites. If one cannot cite the direct source/quote, then there should be little point in continuing.

I've seen people quote second hand sources that take quotes from our texts and sources only to leave out, conveniently might I add, or take out of context the original intent and purpose of the passage. This is unacceptable, unfair and deceptive. This leaves me to conclude that the poster has either been deceived, intends to deceive or both. These are not the fruits of honest investigation. Who would go to an illegal drug dealer for advice on a doctor's prescription for an infection?

[HizWife625]

I did quote my citations.......

[skalenfehl]

I know, thank you. I was referring to mattkerns555.

Sidenote: I have also seen people quote King Follett or refer to it as many other quotes, but not include the entire context of the quote or passage. Therefore direct links to the reference would be needed to check validity and address them directly.

[Hemidakota]

I'm just reading the works of the founder of your religion, are you sure that that is "very poor quality?" Look it up, I'm sure you will find the exact information that I just posted

You should 'The Message of the Joseph Smith Papayri an Egyptian Endowment' ' by Hugh B. Nibley for further insight on this subject.

It was not just the Record of Abraham but another Record of Joseph was also included.

Before I forget, the Book of Breathing but was heavily damaged.

[HiJolly]

The preceeding quote was from Mattk., not HiJolly.

[skalenfehl]

The preceeding quote was from Mattk., not HiJolly.

Fixed.

To reiterate. To ask us to look it up when we already know where the source is begs the question: "Why don't you provide a link to the exact source?"

I'd like to compare the original source with your source and see if anything is changed or left out.

[skalenfehl]

The only thing I must caution when referencing is the fact that posting links to anti-Mormon websites is not allowed so I hope that anyone coming here seeking objectively to understand will reference from our own original sources such as those found in lds.org, mormon.org OR other unbiased apologetic sorces like fairlds.org, etc.

[THIRDpersonviewer]

Good Morning,

Sure it does. Hopefully mattkearns555 will realize that the direction his posts are turning is obvious to us, and stop while he is ahead. That would definetly publish peace IMHO. Would it not?

Regards,

Vanhin

I know the discussion has moved on, but there are two things that will happen in any conversation. It will be peaceful, or it will be contentious. When a person calls another out for something, that raises contention. It just happens. By saying that the person is being contentious, and then posing a question that may cut across the beliefs of another by saying they are not a Christian because they are contentious. That is offensive. It is like saying they are not a Christian. Who am I to say if a person is a Christian or not? That was the view and interpretation I see from it.

Her intent may have been good. However, she needs to be aware of what she says herself. Look at it from both perspectives.

A better way to have said it would have been something like:

"You know, I get this feeling that we're getting contenious in our discussion. Let's together try to tone it down a little bit." Conversation is a two way thing. 9/10 when a person gets contentious the other will follow suit.(from what I notice).

I mean no ill will. This was just the way I observed it.

[Guest Seraphim]

I need to interview someone of the Mormon faith for my Bible class. I was wondering if I could ask someone a few questions about their beliefs and of the Mormon faith in general. It is due tomorrow, so if anyone could do it now or later on tonight that would be great.

It appears you have misrepresented your reasons for your questions here. This board is not for attacking The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Seraphim

[Guest Seraphim]

I did quote my citations.......

You need to provide references from legitimate sources in full context. No cut and pastes from Anti-Mormon websites.

Seraphim

[HiJolly]

By saying that the person is being contentious, and then posing a question that may cut across the beliefs of another by saying they are not a Christian because they are contentious.

Did I say they were not Christian? No. Whatever you think I was implying, well... I hope you thought I was curious as to whether they are Christian or not.

I was asking a direct, sincere question that they did not answer. I am disappointed. I don't even know if they are Christian, and I would like to know.

HiJolly

[HizWife625]

You need to provide references from legitimate sources in full context. No cut and pastes from Anti-Mormon websites.

Seraphim

My sources are

The Bible

National Geographic

Smithsonian Instritute

The King Follett Disclosure

Webster's Dictionary

[Guest Seraphim]

My sources are

The Bible

National Geographic

Smithsonian Instritute

The King Follett Disclosure

Webster's Dictionary

When you write a post, please post a link to your source so everyone can see that you didn't post a quote out of context. Anti-Mormon sites quote The King Follett Discourse at times without the full context.

Seraphim

[Vanhin]

I know the discussion has moved on, but there are two things that will happen in any conversation. It will be peaceful, or it will be contentious. When a person calls another out for something, that raises contention. It just happens. By saying that the person is being contentious, and then posing a question that may cut across the beliefs of another by saying they are not a Christian because they are contentious. That is offensive. It is like saying they are not a Christian. Who am I to say if a person is a Christian or not? That was the view and interpretation I see from it.

Her intent may have been good. However, she needs to be aware of what she says herself. Look at it from both perspectives.

A better way to have said it would have been something like:

"You know, I get this feeling that we're getting contenious in our discussion. Let's together try to tone it down a little bit." Conversation is a two way thing. 9/10 when a person gets contentious the other will follow suit.(from what I notice).

I mean no ill will. This was just the way I observed it.

Rock on. :)

Vanhin

[Brother Dorsey]

I need to interview someone of the Mormon faith for my Bible class. I was wondering if I could ask someone a few questions about their beliefs and of the Mormon faith in general. It is due tomorrow, so if anyone could do it now or later on tonight that would be great.

mattkearns555,

You're not fooling anyone. We've seen the old "I need to interview some Mormons for my school religion project/Bible class/college assignment" ploy many times before. We have been warned in the Bible about "wolves in sheep's clothing" like you. Please take your anti-Mormon proselyting somewhere else....or stay and ask us to clear up the falsehoods you've been taught. Either way...this "help me I have an assignment due" is just a lie...we know it and you know it and it doesn't help your credibility as a Christian at all.

[Canuck Mormon]

Seeing as the "assignment" was due yesterday, I'm closing the thread.