Misunderstanding sacred covenants

[Traveler]

In the thread Forever and Ever a statement is implied about the temple endowment. Because of the sacredness of the endowment specifics should not be discussed – I understand that many ignorant and antagonizing elements intend to take this to their advantage. This is a most unfortunate misunderstanding concerning covenants. Without going into specific details I will point out for those that may have been mislead or deceived. There has been no covenantal change to any of the 5 covenants concerning the temple endowment.

The Traveler

[rameumptom]

Traveler is correct. And those issues can actually be discussed insofar as those covenants are found in the scriptures. Chastity, for instance is an important issue in both the temple and scriptures, as are sacrifice, gospel teachings, and consecration.

The only major changes occurring in the endowment have to do with symbolism. Many of the old symbols mean little to current LDS, especially those born in non-Christian environments throughout the world. So the endowment was updated to ensure it was understood by a global membership, and keeping the all important covenants and oaths in place.

[YellowLight]

keeping the all important covenants and oaths in place.

Not ALL the oaths and their signs are still in place...think 1990.

[Canuck Mormon]

We need to be really careful here. I'm willing to see where it leads, but Temple ordinances are NOT to be discussed. We can talk in vague references, but that's it. So far so good.

[Traveler]

Not ALL the oaths and their signs are still in place...think 1990.

All temple covenants are the same and have not changed - I am thinking at least 1967. I regret that you lack understanding of covenants, especially the sacred covenants of the temple that comprise the endowment. Some of the temple symbols have been misused by those that have disrespect and contempt for such sacred things – I personal find it comforting that G-d has inspired that certain symbols be characterized differently to give greater and deeper understanding of truth to those that seek righteousness and to avoid confusion from the intent of conspiring and evil influences determined to lead astray those that are not serious about keeping their sacred covenants and that seek to create confusion and doubt among those that are trying to keep their sacred covenants. (I am now thinking Matt 7:15-17)

The Traveler

[rameumptom]

Not ALL the oaths and their signs are still in place...think 1990.

Signs can change. They are merely symbols of the covenants we make. The oaths are still the same, though worded slightly different in some cases for more clarity in a global church.

The things that were removed were merely symbolic points that did not mean anything to the average Tongan or Brazilian member.

You seem to miss what the point of the endowment is. It isn't about liturgy or ritual. It is about theophany. The endowment has and does lead us symbolically through the Creation, this world, and into the next life; showing us how we must prepare along the way to stand in God's presence and be like him. The endowment literally is a practice or dress rehearsal for that big day when it really will occur.

It fits in perfectly with the theophanies that ancient prophets and apostles had, including Enoch, Isaiah, and Paul, Lehi, and Nephi.

Joseph Smith's goal was to have all people receive their own theophany, and the temple rite prepares us for that experience.

[MorningStar]

Well if it hadn't changed, I suppose there would be objections to that too. Danged if we do, danged if we don't.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Jesus said:

The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened. (Matt 13:33)

The kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field. (Matt 13:44)

The kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls (Matt 13:45)

The kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: (Matt 13:46)

Was he contradicting himself? Did the Kingdom of Heaven change? No, just his way of describing it to help people understand.

The Endowment hasn't changed, just the way of presenting it.

[Misshalfway]

I heard too that they have changed things to make the ordinance work move faster so more work can get done in less time. I think the Lord allows us a little flexibility as we learn and grow and become more aware of needs and issues. I know that I can go to the Lord with concerns and the Lord gives me ideas and direction for how to solve my problems or how I can improve my work. I think that this element of flexibility is something I love about this church. I don't see changes in doctrine. Only in practice.

[YellowLight]

Edited: No temple content. You know better than that. The next time I see a quote from you, there better bet a link to it.

Seraphim

[Guest Breezy]

I am not LDS but I think you are crossing a line here. You need to be careful I think. Just my .02 cents and not intending to be confrontational but I dont think you should be discussing this in an open forum ...maybe taking it to personal emails with those who want to talk about it with you would be a better and more respectful approach.