Islander

Rationalization is one of the favorite weapons of the enemy. You have been engaged since early puberty in one the most intractable and pernicious psycho sexual male behavior for 5 years now. Minimizing the impact it has and that it will have in years to come denotes that fact that you pretty much has given up fighting this addiction on account of you history of failure abstaining. If you procrastinate seeking and going thru treatment, this addiction will cripple your life in ways you can not come to imagine. The fact that the prophets keep bringing the subject twice per year for the last 3 years should bring to your attention the gravity of the situation. NOTHING should be more important to you at this moment than getting all the help available to deal with this issue. This addiction will keep you from serving the Lord, will keep you from receiving blessings of the Temple, may keep you from finding an eternal companion, it will keep you from holding and exercising the keys of the priesthood and all but turn you in to a psychological hermit and rob you of your future. You can try and compensate with professional/academic endeavors. It will not amount to much. I once heard the late Elder Maxwell quote this: “If you have not chosen the kingdom of God first, it will in the end make no difference what you have chosen instead.”

Ooooops!! I think I was looking at a different thread. Carry on.

Our wishes, desires, expectations and dreams are irrelevant when it comes to the truths and certainty of the Gospel and the doctrine of the kingdom. God has spoken, He has laid up His doctrine by the mouth of His prophets and it can not be changed and will not be changed to accommodate social trends or expectations of any kind, even from members of the church. The notion that "things will be sorted out" is a man-made construct. The plan has been laid out transparently for all whom the Lord sees fit, in mortality, to know and encourage to take steps to fulfill our side of the covenant. Those that did not have access to the covenant in this life and crossed the veil without the ability to fulfill it due to no fault of their own (say you were born an aborigine in the Amazon) God in His infinite mercy has made provisions for such. Those reading these lines, fully aware and capable to humble themselves as to be worthy to receive the full measure of the covenant will have no excuse or remedy. By failing to fulfill the above they will be accountable in the full measure of the law. Before the all searching eye of God no resemblance of excuse can stand up to such light. I know the above can be a preamble to very difficult conversations. Difficult as it may be for us to accept, we, ourselves, are the mos difficult and intractable barrier to happiness.

This is a very old thread. We should close it???

Thank you. I tried to make that point above. Some missed it. apparently.

People in this country have a very poor historical memory or suffer from massive, sheer ignorance. California in 1966 was at the top if the US in per pupil spending, some of the lowest taxes in the nation, six auto assembly plans and the cradle of movie making with some of the largest automibile dealerships, and one of the fastest growing economies in the world. A decade later, the legislators voted themselves a full time job with benefits, double the taxes, kill the auto industry with organized labor and plunged the state into "welfareway". Today we are the highest taxed people in the nation, at the bottom in education accomplishment. jobs are flying out at 100K per year, crime keeps skyrocketing so prison industries are eating more of the budget and the movie industry all but gone. With 65% of the budge going to "Health and Human Services" (whatever that is), with the highest paid teachers, cops. prison guards and labor union work in the country bankruptcy is the only way to rework and balance the budget. But...they rather tax the people out of existence....Our ONLY protection is the 2/3 majority rule and they are now plotting how to circumvent the law in order to nail the few tax paying people left in the state with even higher taxes.

What I hear is an argument very similar to one that took place a long time ago in heaven. You are human, a child of God, created in His image with a purpose, offered a choice and agreeing to carry on your side of the bargain in orer to receive a reward. Somewhere along the line you begin to question the deal. You started thinking it is not fair, you don't like the deal, you wish the terms could be renegotiated. Sounds funny? Imagine I start raving about gravity. it is a nuance!!! Sucks to be dragging my feet and stumbling every so often. Gravity keeps me "glued" to the ground when the view from the air is much more awesome. Ah, if I were a falcon. The air is cleaner and there is no gridlock on the freeway. Besides, I could construct my own house on a tree and it would take me just effort, all natural and freely available construction materials and not a 30 year mortgage. Free to roam the skies, to come and go as I please worrying only about my family. Well...but I am human, one of the sons of God and willing participant in His creative plan, destined to partake of immortality and exaltation. To be given a gold crown and garment made in heaven with a name on my forehead that only HIM that gave it to me knoweth. To sit in His throne and inherit His kingdom. That is our destiny. You should question why you want to draw away from your Heavenly Father? Why is it that your life as you see it fit to live appeals to you more than the one He has in store for you? Why is it that your desire to please yourself, to do and act without regard or restrain from the word of God is so attractive to you? I would start there.

Amen!! :)

I can see you trying to understand but your example here is a bit flawed. By the time you stand before the judge you have surrendered your freedom and free will thru your actions. You acted as a free agent and your behavior was illegal and you knew it. The judge will now assert his authority and impose the penalty, which is the consequence of your behavior/free will. We speak of predetermination in the sense that God knows what we are going to do. Regardless of the choice it is part of His plan. The task at hand is to seek congruency with Him. To seek to understand the point of convergence of His will/our purpose as to maximize our potential and fullfil our measure in the creation.

True in a sense. The Rabbinic "minutia" came about precisely because some people do not guide their lives by principles or believe the prophets but require "specific" instructions. So, the law says "Thou shall not say the name of God in vain" and some asked "...well, when is it in vain and when is not?". So the Rabbi said: "Then thou shall never say the name of God." People argue with Moses about everything so he had to codify the law in painstaking detail.

I appreciate your candor here. You must acknowledge that the response you received was a logical reaction to what some in the forum perceived as ill-intended, condescending and misinformed comments made by you. Since you appear willing to engage on a more civil tone/exchange I guess we can put that initial misstep behind. That aside, if you truly want to engage in solid inquiry and research of what the LDS church, membership and theology is all about you HAVE to be willing to assume a more inquisitive model and less judgmental approach: 1. "Old knowledge" is the most significant barrier to discovery and new insights: What you think you know provide an emotional platform of certainty from which to observe, judge and assess the world around you. Realize you have quite an investment behind such construct and accepting that you may have been mistaken and built quite of your worldview and actions behind such a faulty foundation is quite difficult to deal with. The emotional barrier here can be much higher than the intellectual one. Imagine how difficult it is for some to say "I am sorry, I was wrong" and really mean it? It may be hard for you toa ccept that what you think you know is nothing more than tacit acceptance of traditions you have been taught or inherited and not true scripture knowledge or conviction. 2. Contrary to what you have been taught, you will NEVER really, truly come to understand spiritual things from a purely intellectual standpoint: You must be willing to accept that the word of God and the principles of the gospel are ONLY fully comprehensible from a spiritual standpoint AFTER sufficient faith is developed. You must study a principle, ponder it in your mind, have a fervent desire to understand it (faith) and then seek God thru the Spirit to reveal to you the soundness, truthfulness and meaning of it. Like many here, I am also a convert. I dare not bother you with the details but I arrived to this conclusions on my own after years of searching and on account of my life being in mortal danger several times. It was my spiritual search that led me here. By then, and I say this with all the humility I can muster, I knew more about the Gospel, history and scripture than the missionaries that came to my door and many other life-long LDS in my congregation. I hope your desire to know is genuine. All tuth belongs to God and it is independent of man. Seek to receive from HIM an answer to your questions after you have studied those things that you seek to understand. He can not lie for He would cease to be God.

told ya'.... PS: Mooooood!!! can we be done done with this one as well? :)

Mooooooderator!!!! throw in the towel before they pull out their guns. They started to call each other idiots and stuff. I think this thread has run its course.

OK, now that you are convinced we are all wrong, lost, misguided and duped into believing a false religion you can on with your life and continue in your merry way. You do not have to waste your time in silly forums like this one arguing with people that, according to you, do not understand Christianity. Good luck...

LOL...:lol: That was good. "Get the TARP off out of here..." it sounds quite good...LOL:lol::lol:

I read the manifesto by the "Unibomer" and he sounded just like you. A completely artificial, unrealistic and Utopian argument. Before those few men that signed the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution, ALL other men on the earth were subjects to a ruler and lived at the mercy of such ruler with no claim on self or property than the clemency and benevolence of said ruler. ONLY the nobles had access to the means and opportunity to provide an increase and the people were exploited and forced into a meager existence. It was Capitalism that brought about the most transparent, prosperous, hopeful and fair society in the world. It was capitalism that stepped in and crushed fascism and genocide, it is in this system that you so much despise that millions have found the freedom, hope and prosperity denied the world over by ALL the other political systems. The very way in which you live and the opportunities you enjoy were brought about by the capitalism you so much deride. It is the very system that allows you to reach out across the world and engage in this, by now, frustrating and circular debate. It is the very system that allows you to express freely without fear of loosing life or limb. ANY AND ALL other political systems would have truncated your ephemeral intellectual exercise by putting you to death after sharing this silly, speculative and fictional social theory of yours.

Goldman Sacks wants to return the 10B TARP money. They needed short term loans to backstop a liquidity issue. The "toxic" assets would have taken care of themselves. They were nothing but over-priced assets and a market correction was necessary. Banks fail due to low levels of liquidity. ALL deposits are insured so account holders are fine. If a bank becomes insolvent it should fail and be taken over by the FDIC. The Darwinian theory at its best; ONLY the fit survives. What they should have done is take over any and all insolvent institution and sell them in the open market. Rather, they let them take tax payers money so they can pay themselves billions in bonuses even though they should have been in bankrupcy if it was not for the TARP. The "stimulus package" is nothing but a SPENDING bill that has sunk our nation in the largest deficit in history. They keep bailing out these large insolvent businesses and the small business, the real growth engine of the US economy, keep dying at a rate of 10,000 per quarter. Go figure!!!

Our family does the same. Our children are small still and they recognize is much better to pray in the car for it is quiet. I also believe that it is a very personal experience to be shared with those that can appreciate it. I have a sister in-law that quite secular and even more liberal in her ideology but she always insist on me saying the prayer at family gatherings and meals. According to her: "something rings true" in her mind when I bless the food. I am not clear about her concept of God for she declines to elaborate but I always agree to pray because they can appreciate it as well, even when they do not share our faith.

That is an interesting question if I've seen one. But yes, indeed, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints would be the best place to start.

Obviously you came on to the forum under false pretenses. You are not trying to grasp certain aspects of the BOM or the religion at large. You are coming to contend. You do not have to believe anything you want. You are free to adhere to anything you like and pick and choose what you like. You are afforded that privilege. You do not have to believe the BOM, Joseph or anything else as stated by the Church of Jesus christ of Latter day Saints. I suggest you move on to other more profitable things and activities in your life.

I think once the debate moves away from our theological foundation we are just treading water. From a "humanistic" standpoint, the trend seems to be that as long as it is not illegal nothing is wrong. We are, in the West, at a junction where man's desires have no limits and laws are created to accommodate such with no regard for history, ethics, the word of God or morality. We are arriving to a point where morals, ethics and behavior are completely relative and no more than shifting sand pushed by the wind of social hunger. I am sincerely sorry for those that struggle with chronic illness and diseases. Breaking down ethical, moral and historical social constrains invariably opens the gate for unrestrained practices, the impact of which we can not even begin to imagine. There is no practical way to maintain operational control of embryonic stem cell lines worldwide. There are individuals in the world that have more resources, ingenuity and influence than governments. I wonder why not concentrate on other kinds of stem cells? Just like they want to push carbon emission controls at ALL costs, they can push other lines of stem cell (non-embryonic) at ALL costs because it is the right thing to do, the moral thing to do the ethical thing to do. Or is this a case for "situational" ethics?

Your statement that the LDS faith "has nothing to stand on" denotes that you have arrived here ill-prepared to discuss the subject. I will not question your motives but indeed your methods. It seems to me you made up your mind based on limited information and skipped the part where you researched the foundational elements of the religion. That strategy seems disingenuous.

LOL...now, you are mean!!!:lol::lol: I make a motion for a triple laughter botton...:lol:

Yeah, capitalism is the worse form of government......of course, except for ALL the other ones!! To this day, capitalism is flawed, imperfect and far short of addressing all social needs. But there none other better.

Yep, as stated previously, there is a lot more here than meets the eye. She is not telling the whole story. As far as your relationship with your sister; you do not have to be a listening ear if you do not want to. That is why she has a therapist. What she is looking for a somebody to validate her personal construct. The minute you articulate that you do not agree or support her she will not look for you "to listen." It is doubtful that you can have a relationship with your sister, in good conscience.