abqfriend

This thread comes from a discussion on the Alcohol Thread on the the sacrament of Holy Communion. Here is the quote in part: "i suppose we can use lemonade if we want lol, anything would be fine so long as it is non alcoholic." A point was made by a member that anything but an alcohol based drink (ie Wine) would be OK for the Sacrament of Holy Communion. As a Catholic-I consider a Sacrament as something Holy or Sacred. I can see a view whereby one would wish to use non-fermented wine in such a sacrament or use wine-as is the case in the Catholic Church and other churches. I know of no church that uses Lemonade or similar in such a sacrament. What is the LDS position?-and why?-is grape juice used? water? -or does it not matter? If you are of another faith tradition-please share your understandings also. -Carol

I am a Roman Catholic and feel very welcome here. Most members here are respectful of other faith traditions-so I think you will learn much and meet some very nice people. -Carol

Great Link! In your own words---what would I find if i visited your chapel? What is the difference between a chapel and a church? In Catholic understanding, a chapel is usually a small church or part of a larger church structure. -Carol

There are many differences the way people worship-this comes from their different understanding of the message received to them and translated into their respective doctrines and teachings. Doctrines and teachings are reflected in the way people worship. Catholic, Orthodox, Episcopal, Lutheran and many other faith traditions baptize infants. This is because of the doctrine of "original sin" that we have -according to our faith tradition's understanding-that we have inherited from Adam. The Pope has recently tried to clarify the understanding of what happens to an unbaptized infant/child. My grand daughter who is 3 is unbaptized-through no fault of her own-as her parents attend no church-Catholic or otherwise. I place such a person in the hands of a loving God. Here is the official Church Understanding: CNS STORY: Vatican commission: Limbo reflects 'restrictive view of salvation' -Carol

If you wish to visit a Catholic Mass-arrive about 15 min before Mass and familiarize yourself with the Mass booklet sometimes called Missalet-in the pews. It has the order of the liturgy/mass as well as the readings of the day-there are a series of 3 years of Bible readings the same in all Catholic Churches worldwide. Lutherans, Episcopal and Orthodox have the same or similar readings in a 3 year cycle as well. Dress is casual- you can attend in the same dress as if you were going to an LDS service---some Catholics come too casual-like in shorts and low cut blouses- that they just came from the golf course or beach-don't come like that! Do not take communion-which is given in the front of the church -by the priest and "Eucharistic assistants" Only Catholics can take communion. -so if your row rises to take communion-just stay seated. Kneel when everyone else does and stand when everyone else does. Bulletins are usually given out after the service-not before-so as people don't read them during the service-as they are mostly filled with announcement kind of things. -enjoy the service! -Carol

I think many people are afraid to attend a religious service of another faith tradition as they don't know what to expect-and they don't know anyone. I would encourage LDS members here to share what a visitor to a chapel service of the LDS Church might expect to happen-and how long the service is-and how they should dress. -Carol

Hi-I am a Catholic myself. I encourage Evangelical and others to go to the source! In the LDS Church-that includes the Old and New Testaments, the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants. Books about the LDS church may be good or bad-but they are not the same as reading the Source! Sometimes we get bogged down on a particular detail in our study and lose the overall message being given. I find much good and Christian in the teachings of the LDS Church. -Carol

Hi-Don't get personal! If you have read my other posts elsewhere on this board-you know very well that I consider LDS members as Christians. The Official teaching of my Church and many other churches-says that the LDS Church is not a Christian Church. I happen to disagree with the understanding of my Church. My Church calls the LDS Church- heritical- and the LDS Church calls Catholics and others as -Apostates- perhaps it would be better if we got past our official churches understandings and saught personal understanding-that we stopped throwing stones at each other and show some Christian love and understanding -Carol

Who has the keys? My husband asks me the same question-but quite differently. There is of course differences in interpretation between Catholics and the LDS on apostolic succession. We can agree to disagree-nicely on that point on others. I am a Catholic-and the Catholic Church over the past 2000 years -depending upon how you are counting-has had a very checkered past. We have had our share of true Saints but some of our past leaders were not very saintly in my opinion. We have had some great popes and some really awful (in my opinion) popes. There was much politics and purchasing of church offices and church corruption especially during the middle ages and at the time leading up to- the much needed-in my opinion-Reformation. Many past Church leaders did not lead an exempliary life. Many fortunately did! That said-the Church has survived, reformed and continues to grow and flourish. Catholics believe that Peter was the first Pope. I have been to the Vatican and St. Peter's. Directly below the high alter of St. Peters is the reported burial place of St. Peter himself. The Catholic Church relies much less on it's pope for definition and clarification of church doctrine than it's teaching authority-the leadership of the Church-called the Teaching Magesterium. The Pope is not a prophet-but acts in some ways similar way-put in LDS terms- to a leader of the Quorum of the Twelve or Quorum of the Seventy. Keys open and close things-and the Church believes that it has the Keys-and interprets Scripture to understand that those keys were first given to Peter. Matthew Chapter 16 15-18 15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Despite the many faults- of its members- the Catholic Church survives, grows and flourishes. It relies on Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition in the formulation of it's doctrines which it believes are centered on the faith and teaching of the apostles which comes from Christ. The Catholic Church believes it has the Keys given to it by Christ. PS-Ceeboo--Please consider filling our your profile-it is blank-along with many other member profiles in the forum. -Carol

This is off topic-but the question was asked. The Pope is considered infallible on his statement on doctrine when he clarifies it -by saying it is an infallible doctrine. Papal infallability is limited-and has been used only once since the -1870 -declaration by the Catholic Church-and that was in defining the Catholic doctrine on the assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary -which is found no where in scripture. This doctrine-was in the Church for many centuries as a teaching-but it was made infallible by the Pope. Here is a link: CUF.org :: Catholics United for the Faith Here are a few references to understanding of Papal Infallibility. The Papacy in the Catholic Church - The Office of the Papacy - The Role of the Papacy in the Catholic Church Here is a part of the above link "One such council, the First Vatican Council of 1870, recognized the doctrine of papal infallibility. While some non-Catholic Christians regard this as a novelty, this doctrine is simply a full understanding of Christ’s response to Peter, that it was God the Father who revealed to him that Jesus was the Christ. Papal infallibility does not mean that the pope can never do anything wrong. However, when, like Peter, he is speaking on matters of faith and morals and intends to instruct the whole Church by defining a doctrine, the Church believes that he is protected by the Holy Spirit and cannot speak in error." Here is a more detailed explanation link http://www.scborromeo.org/papers/infallib.PDF Here is the link from the official Catechism of the Catholic Church: USCCB - Catechism of the Catholic Church -see section 890 and 891 of the above link Here is a link to the actions of the 1st Vatican Council Pius IX**** Vatican I -I hope this is helpful -Carol

Hi, I am a Catholic. The Catholic Church has had it's share of attacks-and some very well deserved. The Church is 2000 years old-so it has more history-and some pretty bad history. Despite it's shortcomings-the Church has survuved and grows. Some Popes of the past were not very good popes-and the church suffered greatly during those times. Much of the Protestant reformation and Catholic counter-reformation was about past scandles and abuses of the Church. The Catholic Church has no additional sacred scripture written by anyone-so it's leaders-including the pope are not considered as prophets. The are considered as successive heirs of the Church with Peter being the first leader. So the attacks on any leader of the Church-even the Pope are not against an attack on the central teachings or doctrines of the Church-thus the difference. The Catholic Church relies on Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition in the formulation of it's doctrines and teachings. It has no prophet or writer of sacred doctrines or covenants. -Carol

Thank you for sharing. I am a Roman Catholic, but I encourage you in your faith journey as you understand it. Sacred Scripture says this: "Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.–Matt. 18:20 -unfortunately-where two or three are gathered-there seems to not always be a total agreement on everything of one's faith tradition and how that faith tradition is lived out in every day life. -do not become discouraged. Such is the case in my own faith journey. Read, Study, Pray-and seek guidance in your faith journey. -Carol

Thank You for the great links. I am a Roman Catholic. The Historical writings also included in the link are also valuable. The Sacred Scripture of the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches includes some apocryphal books in our official canon of sacred scripture. Many others-as noted are worth reading to get an idea of the variety of ideas circulating in the early centuries of Christianity. -It would probably take you weeks to read them all. Thanks again Carol

The more I am on this site-I find some members quick to criticize the early church and the Catholic Church in particular. Indeed some criticism is merited-but what about the good that was done-little or nothing said-is this what the LDS Church teaches in it's teachings and doctrines? More importantly-is that what it's members believe? Here are some "neutral" web sites on the Council of Nicaea and related councils-I think there was controversy and disagreement-but much good came out of them. The world was much different in 300-400 A D than it is today-one must take into consideration the geopolitical climate of the day and the state of the Christian Church at the time of the councils. First Council of Nicaea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The Council of Nicea Council of Nicaea - LoveToKnow 1911 --Carol

Hi, I am a Catholic. The Roman Catholic Church, Orthodox Church and the many Christian churches that are called "Protestant," may disagree on many things--but almost all of them agree on a belief in the Trinity. Many Protestant Faith traditions including Lutheran- study and speak their belief in the Trinity as found in the ancient creeds of the church at their worship services. A belief in the Trinity is one of the doctrines of many faith traditions including my own. There was much disagreement on the defining of this doctrine especially over the first 300-400 years of Christianity. The teaching of my Church and many others is that those who do not believe in the Trinity-are not Christian. I do not hold such a belief. I consider members of the LDS Church as Christians. I believe in dialog and Ecumenism between myself and those of differing faith traditions. -Carol

The stones keep coming!-guess I need a helmet-along with many other Christians who feel some things good came out of the ancient councils and creeds of the church. You also state we "Catholics do not hear from God." and that- he only exists in our imagination? --so God only speaks to LDS members? So- God is only present in members of the LDS? and not to Catholics?-is that what the LDS church teaches its members? I doubt it -I am here as a Catholic on this site learning about the LDS Church-and what little I do know--I doubt what you are saying is a doctrine of the LDS Church. I guess I had better study my Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants more deeply to better understand more about the teachings of the LDS Church-thanks for enlightening me. -inquiring minds want to know. -Carol

Many Christians consider Catholicism a cult as well-for different reasons than they may than for the LDS Church. So-Don't feel too bad about this "label." The LDS Church has Christ at the center of their faith theology as well as the Catholic Church. They both hold to doctrines/teachings not espressed fully in Sacred Scripture alone. They both have a heirarchial structure. They both believe in a teaching authority outside of Sacred Scripture alone. They both hold doctrines/teachings that may be difficult to understand by those outside their faith tradition. -so don't feel too bad about being labeled a "cult." Just go on your work of mission and ministry and sharing your message 2 by 2! -and a great message it is. -Carol (a Roman Catholic)

Where did the FLDS come from--did they split off of one of the two groups mentioned?-if so why? Are there any other splits/parts of the church other than the RLDS and FLDS? -Carol

I am Roman Catholic on this site. While there were many disagreements at the Council of Nicaea as other councils, let's not throw stones at history or those that made it. Much good-in my opinion was accomplished at this and other Church Councils. To say the council had "nothing sacred or spiritual about it"-is an afront to many Christians in general and me specifically. We may disagree on doctrine-but let's not throw stones at others or put one's slant on the history of the Church. Throwing stones never brings people together-it just keeps them apart. -Carol

I am a Roman Catholic-and this section is Learning about the Mormon Church- -so what is an RM? Inquiring Minds want to know. Thanks -Carol

I am a Roman Catholic studying the Book of Mormon. I try to look at the big picture and not focus on the small details that I do not fully understand. Look at the BIG picture-what the Book of Mormon is focusing on in bringing us a better understanding of this world, our place in it and the love of the Heavenly Father for each of us. If there is a Devil or Satan-He would want us to focus our attention on anything that would make us doubt our faith. If we come to have no faith-guess who wins? My choice is not one listed-although I am not a member of the LDS Church-I say skip the small stuff that ultimately means little-and skip anything that trys to keep us from the BIG stuff of faith. -Carol -a seeker of Truth

About Nephi 15-and doing OK-a little fast for me-but study is meant to be an overview of the Book of Mormon. I have a copy to study along with the hosts which makes it easier-I try to read the chapters first. They are doing about 3-4 chapters per session-two sessions per day-so 6-8 chapters per 2 session day-quite a bit.

I notice that you do not type out the word God. Is that an LDS doctrine? If so-why--and please give the LDS Scripture/Book of Mormon Reference or Doctrine and Covenant Reference. Thank You for giving the LDS understanding of Baptism. As I said-it varies depending on one's religious tradition or understanding of sacred scripture as they under stand it. -Carol

Baptism varies based on the faith tradition of the particular group. Some Christians baptize only adults after conversion, some baptise both infants and adults. Some consider it a sacrament, some an ordinance, some neither. It all depends on the faith community and how they view and understand sacred scripture. Not all non-LDS Christians baptize in the same way. I am Catholic-as one example. Our Church baptizes both infants and adults. We consider baptism as a sacrament. We consider it generally necessary for salvation, although we do not see any one not having the opportunity to be baptized not due to their own fault as keeping them from salvation. We are confirmed into the Church at a later age at which we confirm our baptismal vows made in our place by our parents-sometimes called God-Parents. -they pledge to have us brought up in a Christian home-as one example. Others baptize youth/adults after they have had a conversion experience or "accepted Christ." So-there is not one way of baptism for non-LDS Christians. It is all based on how their particular faith community/tradition understands sacred scripture and the particular traditions/doctrines/covenants of their particular church.

I am a Roman Catholic well as my husband, but we have begun a study of the Book of Mormon. There is a newly produced overview/study of the Book of Mormon just starting on BYU-TV. It is on 7-8 AM Mountain Time Zone. I am taping it to watch later in the day. Each day Mon-Fri gives 2 half hour segments back to back. If you have Dish Network-you can get it on channel 9403 from Basic Dish on up-so anyone with DISH can get it. I hope it is on other cable/satellite services as well. You can also watch it from BYU-TV at: BYU Television | Watch Now Having a Book of Mormon with you while watching is very helpful-but don't let that stop you-they are posting the referred to Book of Mormon references on the screen. As this series of a total of 70 1/2 hr shows has just started-now is the time to watch it. Carol