beefche

I love the Electric Company. I'm always quoting the "It's the plumber!" episode.

I completely agree with you. Father and Jesus were not "mere" men like you or I. They are God. So is the wording offensive? That "He was once a man like us"? Does that suggest to you that He is viewed as I view my brother or neighbor or cashier at Walmart? I like Pam's explanation. Because this is how I view Jesus. He obviously was not like you or I--He made perfect choices and lived a completely perfect life. He is the Son of God. But He was also a mortal man--He was born of a woman, blood, water, and spirit as you and I were born. He lived and worked as an ordinary man--His field of work was carpentry. He ate, slept, cried, laughed, banged His thumbed (but didn't curse like you or I). Yet He was God. I have no problems viewing God the Father in the same light. I'm having difficulty understanding how viewing God as a man (like Jesus was a man) diminishes His Glory, Power, and Goodness.

Thanks hordak. I'll be honest...didn't know that was in any manual. I've never had a problem with that concept, but just don't ever recall actually being taught that. Still don't, but I have no problem accepting that principle. I will pay closer attention next time I'm in the temple to see if any of that is taught there as well--there's so much symbolism that it's likely I'm either sleeping...er...pondering other things and missed it.

Fair enough. And please know that any replies I make are made in the same spirit--I just want to understand (and I don't want to keep typing that with each reply. ) So, does it bother you that Jesus was a man on earth with you and I? He was a man...a perfect man, but a mortal man nonetheless. If Jesus was a man, why is it more than disturbing to think of God the Father once as a man? And I don't think of God or Jesus as equal to me even though they were men. Jesus is God and although was mortal for a short time, He was still (and remains) superior to me. I'm sorry, I just don't understand how being mortal at one time makes He and I equal.

Ceebs, if I may be so bold and ask, if this is true, why is it disturbing? If the Catholic Church released a statement that said essentially the same thing, would it rock your faith? I'm not trying to be contentious...I want to understand why this disturbs so many people.

I've never attended Gospel principles, so I looked up the manual online. This is what it says: What Kind of Being Is God? Because we are made in his image (see Moses 6:9), we know that God has a body that looks like ours. His eternal spirit is housed in a tangible body of flesh and bones (see D&C 130:22). God’s body, however, is perfected and glorified, with a glory beyond all description. God is perfect. He is a God of love, mercy, charity, truth, power, faith, knowledge, and judgment. He has all power. He knows all things. He is full of goodness. All good things come from God. Everything that he does is to help his children become like him—a god. He has said, “Behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” (Moses 1:39). I reviewed our current RS/Priesthood manual and didn't see anything that said God was like us before He became God. Hordak, can you be more specific and show me what you are thinking of? If I've been taught that, then I wasn't paying attention. I view God as man in the sense that He is male and has a manly body. That I've been taught. But I seriously don't recall ever being taught that he was once like you or I. The only "lesson" with which I'm familiar is from the King Follett discourse, which is not necessarily doctrine (otherwise it would be cannonized).

You really shouldn't hit children--there are other ways to discipline.

I'm sorry, I can't pick just one. Ding dongs in the original aluminum wrapper SAMMY TERRY and George (his pet spider) (he was a local scary guy who showed classic scary movies) Good family sit-coms like the Cosby Show or Home Improvement Schoolhouse Rock And the days when I could eat what I wanted without gaining a pound.

I'll try to answer this. I've been a member of this church for 20 years. I've been an endowed member for 15 years (meaning I've participated in the temple ordinances). I have not heard a General Authority of the church teach these things. I have heard that our church teaches these from people in and out of the church, but never from a General Authority. My understanding is that we can be exalted--which means that we can have all that God now has. Exaltation is different than just being saved. I can be sealed to my husband for all eternity--the bonds of that union will not be severed upon death. If we are exalted, then we can continue to progress (which includes having children). I have the opportunity to become a priestess and queen. I will not rise above God as He is God and my Father. However, I am a joint-heir with Christ and as such am able to inherit all that He would inherit as a result of being God's Son. I do not understand all the implications of that. Does this mean that I will be a god? I don't know...it sure sounds like it. But, I'm too wrapped up in the here and now to seriously consider myself as a potential god. Regarding the supposition that God was a mere man....that has never been taught to me. I've had heard the little couplet: as man is now, God once was. But, that has not been taught to me in church on Sunday nor in any temple session. So, to answer that question: was God a man? I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised or dismayed or even lose my faith if I found out that He once was a mere man who frequented an online community and watched TV (). I accepted Him as my God, my King, and my Savior. As such, He is to me more than just a man. I do not view Him as a man in the sense of of the men I know here on earth. I view Him as a man in that His gender is male and He has a manly body. Finally regarding the issue of faith vs. works. God has provided a way for us to be saved--He gave us His only Son, Jesus Christ, to be our Savior. He is the only way and truth to salvation. Period. God also made it very clear that He expects us to live a good life--to live His commandments, to do good for others, to do things to qualify ourselves. Otherwise, IMO, why have commandments? If all that is necessary is the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, then why would God command us to do things? I cannot receive exaltation based on my works alone. However, I also cannot receive exaltation if I choose to disobey God's commandments. I hope that answers some of your questions.

Hay! Watch it, missy! I'll come over there and drool all over you!

Right. And I bet he sells shoes and jackets, too!

I'm sorry, Ceebs, I didn't express myself clearly. I know that the pursuit of "truth" may or may not lead to the BoM or the LDS church. My statements about people pursuing truth meant truth--which can be found in a variety of places. I believe you are on the path of truth. Your path may not lead you to the LDS faith--I don't think any less of you for that. One of my 2 best friends is a faithful Nazarene. She has a strong witness of Christ and is a great example to me of faith, devotion, compassion, and love. She thinks the LDS church is a church that brainwashes people (at least she did a few years ago). As we have focused less on differences but more on what we have in common, I have learned a great deal from her. She has truth. She continues to seek truth. I find that admirable and desirable. So, yes, I know that there are millions of people (whether they follow Christ or not) who are good, faithful truth-seekers. I applaud them in their pursuit. Of course, I wish all would come to know, understand, and love the BoM and the LDS faith as I do. But, I also know that you don't have to be Mormon to be a good and faithful person.

Ceebs, I have a couple of friends who went from believing strongly in Christ to becoming an atheist. I simply don't understand that. What they told me was that they were lied to all their years from their parents, spiritual leaders, etc. That it is impossible to "receive a witness" because there isn't a higher being--only here and now. I believe people when they say they've read the Book of Mormon and either didn't get a witness of it or got one that was opposite of what I would expect. I am not privy to their thoughts/desires/circumstances, etc. I can share that I have had an experience with the BoM that I simply cannot deny. I feel as Paul in the NT (and Joseph regarding the 1st Vision) that God knows what I know and I cannot deny it without fear of condemnation. But, it took me over 10 years to have that experience. I had other experiences during those 10 years, but nothing as powerful as that one. In fact, those other little experiences didn't prevent me from doubting, not seeking truth, and even thinking it was all a little crazy sometimes. I wish that all my friends could know what I know. But, it is a deeply personal experience that one MUST have with Christ in order to gain knowledge. I find it difficult to understand how anyone CAN read the BoM and NOT believe it--it seems so clear and true to me. Thank you for your perspective, Ceebo. I appreciate your sincere questions as it helps me to understand your view and I hope that it helps others who have questions.

I received my CC permit almost a year ago. I want to own a gun. I grew up with guns in the house and knew that if I were to ever touch them, then I would suffer worse than a bullet hole--the wrath of DAD! Seriously, it's all in how you treat them. If you treat them as something to fear and hide from children, then they will be curious to know about them and may sneak them. If you teach them how to use them and explain the seriousness of them, then the mystery and allure is gone. Regardless, I think guns should be placed in a place that is either locked or hidden from children (even the ones who know how to handle). My reasoning is because even if they know how to use them, kids may tell other kids (who may try to steal them) or they will have additional curiosity/rebellion. I love target shooting. I could buy a shotgun without any permit, but I need a permit for a handgun. I haven't decided on the type of handgun--my friend and I are going to go shooting so I can try different ones out to see what I like.

I think some of those observances are fantastic. Hmmm, now I'm going to have to see if I can integrate some of those into my life.

Cliff and Claire Huxtable Aragorn and Arwyn (from the movie) Adam and Eve (the Bible is a book and seriously, I just love them)

Missing, that is my understanding as well. Although LDS do not practice Lent, it does remind me of our Fast Sunday--we sacrifice food for a purpose.

Ok, that response is based on a couple of things...culture (I'm sure they had fathers, uncles, friends, etc. repeat bad stories/opinions) and a few bad apples. When I was talking about serving a mission, I had a lot of male RMs warn me of things NOT to do as a sister missionary. Some things included, flirting, asking for blessings incessantly, trying to boss the Elders, etc. What I found on my mission were some sisters who flirted with Elders and other men, was always sick and wanted blessings, would ignore the Elder's when given instructions or boss them around. I had district leaders and zone leaders who told me to my face that they didn't like sister missionaries. So, I rolled my eyes and told them to get over it. I served to the best of my ability and loved my mission despite some Elder's attitudes. You will cross Elders and others who think women should not serve missions and if they do that they will be "bad" missionaries. Learn to ignore them. Learn to love them despite not liking them or their ways/words. Learn that serving a mission is really not about you anyway, so who cares what others think of you? Go for the right reasons and you'll find it a blessing and a joy to serve no matter what trials you'll have (and you WILL have trials before, during, and after the mission--it's Satan's m.o.).

Ok, from your post, it sounds like your attraction to him is that he is willing to marry you. Something I've learned was that people don't change after marriage. The issues you have with him now will become bigger issues (and the same is true for him). One of the things you have to decide is can you deal with those issues if you were married to him? Marriage isn't about love, romance, candles, etc. It's work. It's commitment. Sometimes it's even not liking him and wondering why you love him. Those things that bother you now--can you live with it if it NEVER changes? Because YOU cannot change HIM. You can't. Marriage won't change him. He can only change himself. My advice for you is to seek counsel from your bishop/branch president (a blessing might be in order). Although your mother sounds very emotional, your parents love you and want the best for you. Perhaps trying to discuss this with her in a calm, rational manner--asking her for details about her objections--would be helpful. And then pray. Don't just pray, "should I marry him? should I move?" Ask very pointed, thoughtful questions and listen. In his defense, I can say that he's in a difficult time of his life. He's now expected to be an adult and that puts a lot of pressure on someone. I would imagine it is even more difficult for a guy who knows it is his responsibility to care/provide for a family. Sweetie, I made the decision a long time ago that I would rather be alone than be with someone who isn't right for me. You would be a lot more miserable being in a marriage with someone who isn't fulfilling his end/your needs. Being single is difficult, but there are many rewards as well. And you don't know your future. You don't. You speak of attending BYU--well, in case you didn't know--there are a lot of fabulous men that attend universities and BYU just happens to have a lot of faithful LDS guys who attend (/teasing).

When I was vacationing in Panama City a couple of years ago, I attended church. While at church, I heard some lady, "Psst! Hey you! I remember you from BYU!" She lived in my apartment complex and remembered I had a weird last name and was from Indiana. The church is small! This post has absolutely nothing to do with the thread...just saw that bytor was from Panama City and that reminded me of that story. Carry on.

Must. Resist. Inappropriate. Comment.

See, the rest of the story is that a few days later, some of us got together from work and played poker. First time for me to play Texas Hold'em --I came in 3rd. So, I'm a drunk, porno-addicted gambler. Who also likes to lick screens. Still love me?

Is jello a side dish or dessert? Your answer may determine your geographical location.....

This happened to me a couple of weeks ago while in a hotel on a business trip. I thought I'd share to give giggles as well as make you feel better about yourself. Obviously, YOU would never do something as dumb as this..... Cut/paste from an email to friends......... My decline into sin...... So, I'm in a hotel and decide that I should go eat dinner. I go to an Italian restaurant and order a seafood pasta dish. It wasn't until I saw the waiter coming towards me with my dinner that I remembered that I had forgotten to ask him to not put white wine in the dish (I know some people say the alcohol is cooked out, but I'm not one of those people). I felt badly, but realized that it's nothing to worry that much about--it's not something I need to confess. I eventually head back to my room. I watch the awesome Duke/Wake Forest game and after it's over (yea WF!), decide to channel surf. I'm flipping through the channels, when I come across something that I simply can't figure out. What the heck is this? It looks like a movie, but not a very good one and I truly can't even tell what's on the screen. Then the camera pans out (it was a close up of something) and I realize it's an adult movie!!!!! Yeah, NOW I know what that close up was. I quickly call the front desk to inform them that I did not order this movie, to remove it from my bill and to block it from the TV. I also noticed that another channel looks as if a movie was going to begin and made sure they blocked that one as well. As I thought about this today, I realized that I drank wine and watched a porno yesterday. Hmmm, I wonder what blatant sins I'll commit today! Anyone have a golden calf to worship or someone who needs to be offed?

Thanks MOE. I'll raise my hand in support of your answer.