AFDaw

I knew it :) Hi steve...I never got to thank you for allowing me to voice my opinion without being the one to actual post something.

I know right :)

Woops...I just wanted to add that Maureen had not posted that when I replied :)

That's not necessarily true because when Spencer and I went through the Temple, very few of my family was allowed to attend because they weren't endowed. So that's not necessarily biased just towards non-Mormon families. I do see the point, I'm just pointing out that just because the family is Mormon, doesn't mean that's an automatic ticket in.

Growing up a friend of mine was Assembly of God and I attended church with her for a while, but she didn't tell her friends there that I was LDS because she wanted them to see me as a person first instead of a religion. SO one day we were leaving and she asked this guy (in front of me) "What do you know of the Mormons?" and he said "The only thing I know is that have a very strong sense of family and community and that's what makes it hard for us to convert them."

No offense...but I'm a little weary of the boards you recommend.

Humble myself, admit I have accepted extra-biblical teachings, and repent for idolatry. And accept my FREE gift of forgiveness. But that is what I would do. The Catholics also accept "extra-biblical teachings" do they not? At least as far as the Protestants believe. And don't the Catholics actually accuse the Protestants of removing part of the Bible that disagrees with their theology? Do you disagree with the Catholics as much as you disagree with us on this matter?

AFD--I just want to address your last statement. Whether someone can accept your answers or not depends on whether they make sense; I don't know why you would necessarily expect someone to accept your answer, just because you articulated what YOU thought was a response. Some answers hold water, and some don't. Why accept those that don't? I'm not saying yours don't, but on principle, the acceptance is in the content of the answer, not the fact that someone TRIED to give one. That comment is regarding the last part of my post. When people ask me "Are you Christian?" and I say yes and they don't believe it. Those are the type questions I'm referring to. Several times I've been told that we do practice polygamy, that we're not Christian, that we don't believe in the Bible, right after I told someone what our beliefs were on those topics. My point is, don't ask me if I'm a Christian if you're not going to accept my answer, don't ask me if we practice polygamy if you're not going to accept my answer....etc. And just because the water doesn't hold water for you, doesn't mean it isn't the correct answer. Remember that thread about how could we believe in a God who could create someone who could murder/rape a child? And everyone said we believed in free agency and that all God did was create someone who had that freedom to choose what he could do? How many times did we answer that question over and over and over and the answer wasn't accepted? I can understand some things not making sense to those who don't believe in our church, but it still doesn't change the fact that the answer to the question is correct.

Now I will tell you AFDaw that I was one of those who questioned and wasn't willing to accept the answers (at that time). In fact I laughed in their faces...and I wasn't a nice person to the "mormons". But the seed had been planted and as time wore on, so did the process of tolerance of those who didn't think like I did. It was years after my first taste of what the LDS believe, and I was older and wiser and wanted to learn. But if it hadn't been for the tolerance of those who I didn't believe in, I would never had made it to the discussions. I was accepted for who I was, and what I believed and things went from there. I'm not sure if you mis-understood me, but I never said those who questioned were anti. I just personally can't stand it when someone asks me a question about my beliefs and then tells me I'm wrong. Like once a guy asked if we practiced polygamy. I said no and he quickly informed me we did. Or in talking to someone at work one day I stated that I was a Christian and his response was simple "Ohhh...no, you're not." It's like, why ask if you're not going to believe me? I never got upset...I stopped getting upset at things like that a LONG time ago. I enjoy it when someone disagrees with me now :) On a side note, I never knew that about you. I'd be interested to hear your story. Is it posted somewhere, like the testimony forum?

Just so you know, nothing in Chapter 1 was about exaltation to Gods. So I'm not exactly sure why you said that.

I KNOW!!! Reading some replies I swear I felt my personal spirit was offended. It made me feel cold and I literally cringed. It's so sad and sick all at the same time. I take my convenants very seriously, and I fear for those who don't. That is the single deciding factor on me staying away. I knew it was a bad bad bad bad place. I haven't been back since. Makes no difference...I was banned afterwards anyway.

yes

I agree.

They have been. White Mountain, Serapha, Allye, ?BYR? I will add other names as I see them. What natural man behaviour! Yeaaaa...ok.

I know. I've seen a lot of lurkers. I'm just waiting for them to post. I wonder why they haven't?

Is there a more apt method of defining a person than by their actions? That's a very good point. But what is the ultimate definition of a Christian? It's not someone who act's Christ like. They should act Christ like because they are a Christian. Am I not allowed to act "Christ like" if I'm not a Christian? You can act however you want while believing whatever you chose. IN fact, I almost posted in that post that I've known an athiest who acts very Christ like. But I chose not to :)

When you believe that all you have to do is acknowledge Christ as your savior, and that your actions don't matter, then yes, they can do whatever they want and claim to be Christian. But when you believe that works are important also, then I could see how it could be a greyish area. But again, ultimately don't they claim to believe in Christ? Don't they claim that he is their savior and so forth and so on? I believe they're Christian, but it's a sad un-Christian like life they had led. You are right, they should "do" and "act" like the Christians they claim to be.

Is there a more apt method of defining a person than by their actions? That's a very good point. But what is the ultimate definition of a Christian? It's not someone who act's Christ like. They should act Christ like because they are a Christian.

By my definition it would be just as wrong for me to tell another person what they do and don't believe in as it would be for them to do it to me. So again, by my definition of what an anti is, I would say that no, their behavior is not Christianlike.(btw...I never said anti's weren't Christian, just their actions aren't)

Another interesting twost to this type of story. All their live they have been told that Mormons aren't Christian...then they meet one and observe their behavior. I was in a world religions class. A young man raised his hand and said, 'we all know that Mormons aren't Christian." His problem was that he had been taken in and lived with a morman family. he continued, "...they were the most christian family (based on actions and behavior) that he had ever know." He was not able to make it all fit in his world view. This reminds me of something else that happened :) While I was defending my faith in lunch periods, this one guy told me I was going to hell for portraying a Christian. No sweat off my back what his opinion is, nor did I care to try to change his mind since it seems it was already made up. We actually had 2 classes together, and since our last names were so close, we sat near each other (our teacher assigned seats alphabetically) and I just continued on with him as I always did. I never changed my behavior, my manner of speech, I never worried about trying to "convince" him I was Christian. Then during the last week of school he said "You really are a Christian aren't you?" and I said "Yes" and he said "I see that now." I think the same thing happened to him that you mention. He was told we weren't, took that at face value, met me and realized he was told wrong.

I'll answer both at the same time.We believe that Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are members of the Godhead, seperate in entities, same in purpose. So in essence, we would believe that all 3 are actually Gods. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost. We worship God, the Eternal Father, but we do this in the name of Jesus Christ. When we pray, we pray to Heavenly Father, when we give thanks, we give thanks to Heavenly Father, and when we ask for things, we ask Heavenly Father. But everything we do, we do through Jesus Christ. We pray through Jesus Christ, when we perform our ordinances in the name of Jesus Christ, we end our testimonies, our talks in the name of Jesus Christ, and this includes worship. We worship Heavenly Father, through Jesus Christ. That was confusing wasn't it? Not sure I understand. The description would have been the same, but we didn't know that until we were able to receive modern day revelation. Yes. So does what you call "mainstream Christianity" Matt 5:48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect" We are always striving to be like Him. Not sure I understand what the difference are. To me they both mean the same. We are made in the image, as in we look like him. We have arms, legs, a head...yadda yadda yadda. Wouldn't that also be his likeness? 1. Don't you think God keeps the commandments? In keeping them, wouldn't we be striving to be like him? I think you're trying to read too much into things. This isn't referring to us being as God is in the sense of "all knowing all powerful" This goes back to Matt 5:48. Striving to be like him. 2. Yes 3. And your point? 1. No. We believe that we are all Children of our Heavenly Father. And we believe that he loves us all the same. He loves me just as much as he loves somone who goes out and murders innocent people. We do believe we are in the true church, but that is not to say that everyone who isn't is missing out on the Love of our Father in Heaven, or the love of Christ. 2. Since we don't believe that, this question should be answered.

I think there are several types of Anti's. As I stated in another thread, I grew up in a very anti-Mormon community. Anti-Mormon rallies were a common place thing. I had a guy break up with me in high school because "My parents won't let me date a non-Christian" I said "You don't think I'm a Christian?" he said he didn't know what to believe. I felt sorry for him because I can understand why he thinks the way he does. Can you imagine being told your entire life that Mormon's aren't Christian by your preacher and your parents? Now all of a sudden you meet one who says they are Christian. If he accepts what I say to be true, then that means his preacher is wrong. And if he has to accept his preacher is wrong about that, what else is his preacher wrong about? I could see how that is a threatening position. Forutnately, I don't have to worry about being in his shoes. I consider this guy Anti because he refuses to accept my word about what I believe in. (I say I'm Christian, he says I'm not) But I still think he's a Christian, just mis-informed. Now, his pastor, who funded and held all these Anti-Mormon rallies, who often preached against Mormon's in his sunday sermon, I don't think that's Christian at all.

Would it matter if there was a reference in the BoM? You don't accept it to be true, so why worry what it teaches? Also, people forget that everything we believe is not wrapped up tight in the Bible and the BoM. We believe in modern day revelation. But what would that matter? If I showed you a statement from a prophet, I doubt you would accept that either because it's not scripture based AND because you don't believe in our prophets. Please listen to me...you can not understand this principle without a testimony of the gospel. I promise. Try as you might (which looks like you are) but you won't. That goes for members as well.

I grew up in a very anti-Mormon community where churches held Anti-Mormon rallies regularly. Where pastors armored their congregation with anti-mormon pamplets and sent them out to warn everyone our true intentions (whatever that was). I spent part of my senior year addressing questions from school mates who brought their Bible to school to prove to me that what I believe in is false. Not all churches were like this. I had several friends who said their church never discussed us or our beliefs, and I had several friends who attended these churches. My personal definition of anti are those who preach against us. Or talk against us. Like, if I say "I am a Christian" and then someone says "No you're not" I think that's anti. Someone who wasn't anti wouldn't care what we believed, they may not accept it the gospel we believe to be true for themself, but they have no problem with what we believe personally. I have no problem with those who question the church, but don't ask questions about the church if you're not willing to accept our answers.

<<sigh>> Do you believe the BoM if true? Do you believe that Jospeh Smith was a true prophet of God? How can you even understand and accept our complex princples when you can't even understand and accept our basic ones? Can you learn calculus without knowing math? No. This is the same. I'm sorry, but that requires a testimony that the BoM of true and that Jospeh Smith was a prophet. There's not point in discussing it, because you will NEVER understand it without a testimony. I promise that. Now, do I believe you'll not discuss it? No...you'll go right on trying to. So let's clarify. If someone asks you that while you're teaching, I think the best thing for you to say is going straight to the end and saying "I don't know" Flame away!