Maxel

Possibly. However, we'd be foolish to discount the rampant attack on traditional values that is aimed at the public education system- particularly in the realm of homosexuality.Also, it's important to note that a large part of the problem I see is there isn't enough being taught about other virtues- tolerance seems to have taken over as the king of all virtues. It seems that nowadays a 'good' man is a man who is tolerant and accepting of others' views- not a man with integrity nor a man who maintains mastery over his desires (especially sexual desires). Tolerance is being enthroned as the master virtue, which it is not.

Welcome back, Michael! You made the right choice.

sjdean- From the events you depict in your first post, it seems that you've put the Lord to the test by asking Him to provide you with signs that you should join the Church. Now that you're been given these signs, you're still doubting. May I suggest a better way than seeking after signs? I know you say you received the Book of Mormon 9 years ago- have you read it and humbly sought the Lord's stance on the matter? Mormonism is unique in that it puts all the proof of its claims to truth right before every man and woman on the planet. I promise you that, if you humble yourself and rid yourself of all ungodliness (that you can) and seek after the Lord's truth, you will find it. Good luck!

Because the professor is talking about academic theological stuff!!!! He's going to be excommunicated like the September 6!!!! The Church is a corrupt conglomerate bent on suppressing truth and love!!!! And other such buffet-Mormon tripe!!![/irony]

The closest thing I can think of is a statement of LDS Professor Stephen Robinson in How Wide the Divide? that the doctrine of deification doesn't imply that we will ever be completely autonomous and independent from our Heavenly Father. I think that could be construed into 'we will be worshipping our Heavenly Father eternally' (not being autonomous and independent from = worshipping, in one sense). If we suppose that our Heavenly Father went through the same process as we are now and is not the first of His divine species, then I don't think it's unreasonable to assume our Heavenly Father still worships His Heavenly Father- although I believe we can safely assume our Father's relationship with HIS Father is significantly different from OUR relationship with our Father. I doubt one quote (that doesn't exactly speak to the manner at hand) counts as satisfactory evidence, but it's the best I personally could think of.

Where's Finrock? I miss that guy too. Maybe we should start a "Where's ____" thread and post rumors and/or sightings of inactive posters? Kind of like a bigfoot-tracking thread, except not?

She and I have been discussing the U.S. welfare system on a thread in the 'Current Events' section. This has been a confirmed Elphaba sighting.

You're right; far too much. I think the best thing we as human beings can do is to stop negative cycles of behavior we were taught by our parents, and instill good values into our children.

EXACTLY! I believe adoption to be a wonderful option if the parents are unwilling or unable to give the child the kind of home it deserves. I'm so sorry... No one should have to go through that.Big hug!

My question isn't argumentative, but honestly inquisitive in nature.-Have you ever prayed in your life to know whether the Book of Mormon is true, or have you felt it unnecessary because you alreay know? I ask because I've heard a lot of lifelong members say the same thing: they've always just known. As to the question in the OP: The initial feeling of confirmation about the truth of the BoM's truth is a feeling I will never forget. I believe that, for something to be absolute, it needs to be testable and repeatable. I have found that through following the process outlined in Moroni 10:4-5 I can receive another confirmation about the BoM or anthing else. For me, the feeing of the Holy Ghost is a feeling of strengthening and peace: I feel that things will be all right, the Lord loves me, and I am doing the right thing by coming to Him in humility. Depending on the situation, I may be moved to tears or the feeling will be accompanied by an expanding of my knowledge and wisdom of the world. There's a definite physical component as well as an intellectual and spiritual components.

My first (and until now only) post was comparing abortion to murder. I've never been comfortable with the comparison because (not to offend) I feel many people are incapable of seeing the similarity because they are unable to emotionally connect with the idea of an unborn child. Therefore, I will reword the argument using another similar topic: illegal drugs. Illegal drugs are illegal. Many people die in the illegal traficking and use thereof. Therefore, we should legalize the use of currently illegal drugs to make the use of illegal drugs safer and legal. This argument falls on its face because it assumes the inherent moral neutrality of using drugs and the wrongness of a law restricting actions of moral neutrality (that such laws cause more harm than good). It's been said here that one can be pro-choice and pro-life. I consider myself pro-choice: it is the woman's choice to follow the age-old law of chastity and abstain from sex outside of marriage (when, normally, a woman will be prepared to have a child). I am also pro-consequence: we ought to let the natural consequences of actions come to fruition. IF a woman gets pregnant due to irresponsible sexual activity (here defined as 'any sexual activity outside of marriage'), THEN it is her responsibility to care for the life she foolishly created with as much wisdom and maturity as possible (this discludes abortion as a possibility). IF the emotional/physical safety of mother and/or child is at greater risk than usual and in cases of rape, incest, etc. I believe there's "wiggle-room" when it comes to abortion, but only in those cases. I think that's all the points I wanted to bring up for this thread...

Mind enlightening us as to what points, exactly, you disagree with in the clip? Especially from 2:12 onward?I particularly like Bednar's phrase "the tyranny of tolerance" to describe unilateral tolerance- tolerance for only certain forms of expression and being. When I see this man- this duly appointed apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ- speak, I can almost feel the wisdom enlightening my soul. His words are based on the reality of life: how things really are, how they really have been, and how they really will be. We can boil much of what Elder Bednar says down to Moroni 7:16-17.

LostSheep: Having been addicted to pornography myself in the past, I can safely say that an internet filter is an absolutely wonderful step- especially since you realized the need for it yourself. Christ has said the following to us in Doctrine and Covenants 50:0-41: 40 Behold, ye are little children and ye cannot bear all things now; ye must grow in grace and in the knowledge of the truth. 41 Fear not, little children, for you are mine, and I have overcome the world, and you are of them that my Father hath given me It's not shameful that you have to put up barriers to help yourself stay on track. Consider this: what is the point of raised barriers on curved roads along a cliff? So that cars that slide or miss the turn for whatever reason don't plummet into the valley below. It is wisdom, not foolishness or weakness, to implement those kinds of barriers so that we might be protected in our moments of temptation where we would otherwise fall. You're doing the right thing- I say this because I have experience, and this is the kind of advice given to me by 2 bishops and 3 different counselors running Addiction Recovery Programs. Continue to work on yourself and the controlling of your addiction and you will eventually be able to live without some of thsoe barriers (although I'd recommend leaving some, like an internet filter, in place).

I can taste the irony dripping from the post. I've actually been thinking about how the LDS church has dealt with major changes in practice and policy (starting/ending polygamy, lifting the race ban on the priesthood, etc.) and wonder what the wording has been like. Has the emphasis been on members to stay with the Church as it deals with the changes, or has the emphasis been to seek the will and charity of Christ and follow the prophets? Or something else? I think we'll be seeing a lot of fragmenting among the members of the LDS church within the next 20 years as the world gets more wicked and those with one foot in Zion and one foot in Babylon decide to plant both feet in the latter.

Elphaba- Thanks for the articles! Those will be useful to peruse. All right- my mom's sleeping right now and she knows more, but I'll list the ones I remember. I don't know which welfare programs some of the people in the anecdotes were from (my mom might know).-Single mom of 2 children who attended my mom's daycare. She was eligible for government assistance when working as a bartender 40 hours/week, but not when she was working part-time and going to school. Eventually, she had to drop out of school and return to bartending. -My own mom is eligible for government assistance while working part-time and not going to school, but not while working part-time and attending school. I agree that the scam is obvious and hard to miss. However, every reason you've quoted that the scammer would be caught relies on the eligibility worker's close attention to the details. Unfortunately (at least where I've lived), those eligibility workers don't care/don't catch the scam. It might be just the workers in certain parts of Colorado and Kansas, but those kind of workers don't exist.Also, someone using this scam would easily be able to go into more than 1 business a week- probably upwards of 12-15 per week. The key of the scam is to find businesses the scammer knows isn't hiring so they can get the signatures. In times of economic hard times, such scams might appear to be legitimate efforts to find a job. This sounds like a good program. I'll have to ask my mom which programs those in my proffered anecdotes are from. I'll be back on later when I have more information.

I know this is occuring in Britain, but if it were happening in America: From a legal standpoint, I suppose the girl could file for underage emancipation. I don't see how she could be faulted for that, as long as she's acting in an upright fashion.

Did you know that murder happens even when it's illegal? Did you know people sometimes died trying to kill their victims? Don't you think it should be legal just for the safety of the people who are going to do it anyway? Why do those poor murderers have to die when they can murder people in the safety of broad daylight?(I know there's a difference between murder and abortion- but arguing that something should be made legal to make those participating in illegal actions safer is a ludicrous argument that stems from the underlying belief that the law is in the wrong, not the people committing the act. The same argument can be used- with equally bad results- for the legalization of illegal drugs as well.)

Hope that works, LostSheep! Good luck!

I'm on board for a prize. I really, really want a pony!

Hemi... I appreciate the time you take to post on this forum. I'll think about what you've said.

Well, that would make sense out of some mysteries, but... Where do you get that from? Any scriptural support I can peruse?

Let me explain. The amount of those in the military are about 1.45 million (so says the Wikipedia engine); according to the National Coalition on Health Care 46 million Americans are without health insurance, with the numbers projected to increase to 57-60 million people next year.Of course the situation is far more complex than can be explained by grabbing a few numbers, but my analogy was meant to illustrate a point: a child lifting a one-pound rock cannot life a 31- or 41-pound rock (it might as well by a one-ton boulder; the child cannot lift it). Of course if the child were freakishly strong, maybe... But I don't think our government is in "healthy" condition. Put more simply: we don't have the money to provide everyone with health insurance. I meant the former. Would you mind pointing me to the source for this? I'd love to believe you. However, my mom who has been on a few government welfare programs sees the system work in opposite of what you said. I could offer numerous anectdotes (which I won't because of the spurious nature of anecdotal evidence) where the person receiving welfare was punished for going to school. There's also the laughably easy methods of getting around the "looking for a job" clause; all that's required is a business owner's (or manager's) signature on a paper saying that person so-and-so asked about getting a job at the owner's establishment, but the owner wasn't hiring.If there's really a stipulation that no one can receive more than 2 years' worth of welfare, that's wonderful You're right, there's a very important difference between those who can't but would work for whatever reason, and those who could, but will not work.

Agreed; I think those crying for tolerance want acceptance and validation. When Prop 8 was the hot topic, the poster interalia posted a great blog about what legalizing gay marriage is really about (validation of the lifestyle).Don't want to get into a gay marriage debate though... Just an example.

I've got the primary answer: study and learn about Christ! Actually, in my life, I've found that the best way to combat false doctrine is to learn correct doctrine. My current game plan (not being a father) is to teach my future children scripture stories when they're first being able to understand them. Also, I plan to use William J. Bennett's The Book of Virtues as a text to teach my children the basic virtues taught therein- Self-Discipline, Compassion, Responsibility, Friendship, Work, Courage, Perseverance, Honesty, Loyalty, and Faith. The third part of my three-pronged tactic is to provide the best example I can and the safest, most righteous home I can. Agreed. At least one thing I think is constant in Satan's plans and strategies is the fact that they're founded on hypocrtical philosophies- and the philosophy of 'valueless tolerance' (the bad kind of tolerance; acceptance of the negative behavior) is most definitely hypocritical and void of real charity.

Justice... You're awesome man, and allowed to have a bad night.However, we expect nothing but perfection from you for the next month. Only one bad night a month!