RipplecutBuddha

let me re-post something I said in a separate thread regarding this issue. Sometimes the reaction comes from a mild misunderstanding of what we believe we are doing through proxy work in the temple. Here are some of them; -we baptize dead people -we count temple baptisms in our membership count -we force the spirits of the dead to accept the baptism Allow me to clear these up at least. When a proxy baptism is performed, someone else is standing in a baptismal font in the temple. The only presence of the deceased is their name, and we believe their spirit may be present as well. Proxy baptisms cannot be included in our membership counts because the person has passed on. All deceased members are taken off of the annual count, just like any other census would be handled. Finally, when we do perform a proxy baptism, we believe that the individual in the spirit world is then given the option of either accepting it or rejecting it. We believe that our intelligences exist in the afterlife as we were in this life. We will still retain our identity, thoughts, preferences, etc. that we have developed in this life. Thus if someone were to pass through death that was strongly opposed to the LDS church, then when their proxy baptism is performed, chances are they would reject it. Through temple work, we are only offering them the option to decide for themselves. I hope this helps clear things up at least a little bit. Now, having said that, people are going to be offended in life. The root causes can range from bigotry and real emotional hatred of another person/group, to a simple misunderstanding of intent, or poor communication. Whatever the cause, we cannot live our lives walking on eggshells for the rest of the world in hopes that we won't offend anyone. All we can do is seek to be as clear and honest as possible in our communications. Some people will be offended no matter what we try. Even Christ offended people, did he change his actions to please them? Those of us with a deep and abiding faith in Christ also have a deep belief that truth is eternal and unchanging. If someone is offended at our beliefs, turning away from them would be turning from truth we believe Christ has given us. Now, with proxy baptism we believe it is based on eternal principles inseparably connected to the salvation of God's children. Because we seek to see as many people return to God's presence as possible, we perform this ordinance for those who may not have had the opportunity to hear of Christ or accept His gospel while in this life. We aren't seeking to grow the population of the LDS church, and we aren't seeking to tear people from their historical heritage. We are performing a ceremony in the name of that person with the belief that in the spirit world, they will have the opportunity to either accept it or reject it. At any time a relative or associated individual protests the ordinance in connection with specific names, the practice is stopped with those names. While we believe it is vital that everyone be offered the Gospel of Christ, we are not here to cause conflict. The names of Holocaust victims will not be submitted for temple work until objections against it are lifted. If one does not like our ordinances because they believe we defile the dead, that is an incorrect belief, because only the names are used in the temple. If one does not like our ordinances because they think they are evil, that is a personal belief that can rane from pure religious differences to incorrect or incomplete information to real and actual bigotry. One does not necessarily lead to another, but any one of them can be the root cause for the disagreement. Finally, it is not our role as LDS to alter our beliefs to please the rest of the world. We still believe the holocaust victims need to have their names put through the temple. However, and not to be repetitive about this issue but....so long as there are objections standing against their temple work being done, it will not be done. We strive to treat every person respectfully, living or dead.

Stay as connected as you can. Send birthday cards, write letters, etc. If you maintain the high road, so long as your ex continues behaving this way, you can at least sleep better knowing you're doing your part as a parent. As long as their mother is interrupting contact, you can only do so much without considering legal options.

And here I thought we'd have to walk away from an entire segment of the textile industry....

This entire discussion illuminates something very important for me. There are a lot of differing postitions on the host of communion through all of Christianity. What Joseph Smith said by way of revelation still makes the most sense, ie. whatever symbols are used in the Sacrament/ Communion, so long as we participate in the ordinance focusing our hearts and minds on Christ, it is sufficient. In the past, I've had to use broken cookies and sprite. In my own mind, what people believe about the symbols is their own business. Further, what other religions teach about the symbols used is also their own business. While I disagree with the Catholic postition, that's hardly a problem, since I'm not Catholic. It would not be a sin in the LDS church if I did, even though such an idea is not part of LDS doctrine in any way. What disturbs me is when intolerance creeps into respectful disagreement. I'm willing to let anyone, or any religion teach/believe however and whatever they see fit. All I ask is the same in return. If you're not a member of the LDS church, that's cool. If you disagree with what I believe, that's just fine. However, the very second you start an attempt to show me that I'm wrong....I have a huge problem with that. I already understand that LDS beliefs tend to contradict those of other religions....it's a rather expected condition, really. There's no need to hash out the differences if such a discussion cannot be done respectfully. As long as cooler heads can prevail, let's get into the nuts and bolts of each other's religion. There's a lot to be learned on all sides for those willing to learn.

*sigh* yet another example for the vault.....

In certain situations it becomes immediately evident that we don't fully understand the difference between pleasure and happiness, nor the importance of such an understanding. While certainly applicable to issues of chastity, I personally see it in all areas of life, including my life.

Articles of Faith by James E. Talmage is another great one.

we wouldn't have said a word had it not been for the beanie with a propeller....

What about Cattle Draver?

Of course he can influence our thoughts, but that's not the same as being able to read our minds and hearts. Heck, advertisers can influence our thoughts....Satan's had a few years more experience than they have, so he'd better be able to influence our thoughts. The key is how we react to that influence; whether we welcome it or reject it.

also understanding that while we are expected to seek perfection, we all know as well as God does, that no matter how hard we focus, we're gonna slip at some point. While God does expect us to do our best at all times, he knew we would never be able to be even remotely consistent. That's why he arranged the Atonement. The little secret is that each of us will still have to suffer for some sin or another regardless of how righteous we are. The goal is to minimize it by utilizing the atonement regularly through the days of our lives and through partaking of the sacrament.

If the emotional aspects aren't connecting for you, perhaps you could approach the issue rationally. You still understand the reality of good and bad. Merely understanding that doing bad things hurts people, and that God wants us to do good things might help. I don't know if I'm making any sense, but a possible internal dialouge would be like this; "What I just did was bad. I shouldn't do bad things. I need to apologize and try to correct what I've done." I don't know if I"m being helpful at all, but this is what popped into my head when I read your OP.

the tricky part would be the flannel board lessons.....what, too far??

Well, perhaps there is a way that both can be correct. On the one hand, we do believe God wants us to become as he is, however we do not believe we will ever match God in glory, nor that we can ever exceed him. Even in our idea of Celestial glory, we will ever worship him as our Father, as he will still (and always) be the source of all that we are, regardless of how much growth we experience personally. As such, I really appreciate your 'half-step' analogy as I see it fits rather nicely within another common LDS belief, though not expressly scripturall, that God himself worships the God/Father that created and glorified him, making us the next link in an eternal chain.

How do the temple ordinances not involve those they are being performed for?? Is this a serious question?? From the perspective of a believing Jew, no LDS ordinances do anything....ever.......for anyone.....There is no consequence......at all..... Your question is only valid from the perspective of one that accepts the ordinance as real and valid, or as an action that results in actual consequences. Tell me what part of the Jewish faith is required to accept as real, or even allows as valid, any single LDS practice whatsoever? I agree that because many Jews find the practice offensive, we ought to accomodate their concerns accordingly, and we have. Further, I understand why they are offended. Their position is very clear, and their reaction is quite understandable. However, I don't have to agree with their reasoning for taking offense. Were that the case, I would have to leave the church through logical deduction. After all, I couldn't very well worship a God that commanded evil things of his true believers.

If I'm not mistaken, there was a series of comments on an ancient thread precisely to that effect, so you're not alone..though I do like the girl's smile...*faint*

further, I don't think the violence in boxing or mma is against LDS standards because both participants are willing to endure it. Violence is certainly evil when forced upon another, but when two individuals knowingly and willingly prepare for, train for, mentally prep for what they know is going to be a very physically punishing test of their abilities, there is no evil in that. It's a competition, with clear rules of engagement, to see who is stronger. Yes there is blood, yes there can be serious damage, but the blood and the damage is not the focus of the sport, but an element of it. You might as well say that short skirts and getting sweaty are the main points of women's tennis. If violence is evil, then how could God have ordered so many wars? How could God have sided with anyone in war? pain, injury, suffering and death are real parts of the life God gave us, and he knew all about it before he was even done getting the Earth ready for us. There's a difference between going out and starting senseless fights, and participating in an organized, regulated, and medically supervised fighting competition. If it's not your bag of marbles, that's cool. Coming out and saying that it's against LDS principles is flat-out wrong, because I doubt anyone could cite any chosen servant of the Lord as saying so.

You think... remember that little bit there. The only viewer numbers that are boosted is those who are being monitored by the Nielsen rating system, and just so you know, the Nielsen rating system does not monitor every single last television in america. They compose their numbers by utilizing a simple tool known as statistical poll analasys. The profit comes from pay-per-view, promotional sales, sponsorships, and ticket sales. Pretty easy to be a fan and avoid those few things, really.

Mine is a rather oblique reference to David Letterman. One night he was poking fun at rock bands with funny names like Stone Temple Pilots, Smashing Pumpkins, etc. So he had these two dice with a random word on each side. He rolled them and ripplecut and buddha came up winner. He then spent the rest of the show announcing that Ripplecut Buddha would be the closing act. I started using it as a screen name ever since. It doesn't have any special meaning beyond that, though it's extremely handy for throwing people for a loop when I use it on religious chatrooms:D I pretty much take usernames for what they are, an annonymous identifier, though I do appreciate the more creative ones.

the only statement I recall about any of this regarding intimacy in a marriage is "What happens between a husband and wife in the privacy of their own home is between the two of them and the Lord." pertaining to this thread, there is no specific scriptural explanation, nor can I envision any GA stepping forward to draw the hard lines for us. The point of intimacy is to strengthen and maintain the bond between husband and wife. So long as intimate activities do so, it's all good.

Now, if only your ministry were in Wyoming...

I think that the story can be applied to our lives in moments as well. For example, everyone will experience trials of some kind, be it minor and inconvenient to life-threatening such as the snakes were. I find it very educational that the Lord chose to provide a way through the pain and difficulty, rather than around it. Too many times we seek deliverance from suffering when we don't realize that often the suffering helps us learn more about ourselves and God than any other experience we could have.

I apologize if my comments put you on the defensive. It wan't my intent in any way. Instead, well let me put it this way. I was at the same point you are, and I reached the same conclusion, that these comments surely have been answered before, so what were they? Soon enough I did find the answers, but somehow it wasn't enough. It wasn't until I realized that I already knew the statements themselves were off the mark, I just didn't understand why they were. In order for me to understand the why behind what I knew, I had to study it out for myself. I had to make finding the answers part of my testimony. Finally, as you are preparing to serve a mission, I would like to share some advice with you regarding anti-mormon situations. First of all, I am not saying that your discussion in your OP was with an anti-mormon. However, those two issues, the progression of Godhood and the relation between Christ and Satan have both been commonly used by anti-mormons for quite a long time, and chances are good you'll hear them in the mission field if you are called to a mission in the US. One key to dealing with them is something I realized in my search. Nearly all of the arguments that anti-mormons use were originated while Joseph Smith was still alive. They were false then, and they were answered then. Nothing has changed in 180 years, so you personally have no responsability to answer them now. The only new argument would be the whole DNA issue, and even that one has been answered clearly. Secondly, and really this is the crux of the whole issue, you have to prepare to keep anti-mormon literature and discussions in the proper place. On the one hand it is important that you find the answers to these questions and others you will hear from people you meet or come up with yourself during your mission. The good news is that you will have a lot of time for personal study to gain this. On the other hand it is extremely unwise to engage an anti-mormon in a discussion as a missionary, and all missionaries are counciled to avoid such confrontations up to and including walking away from the situation. While sincere investigators will ask about these things, others will pose as sincere investigators when they really just want to debate and argue in order to confound your words. You will need the Holy Ghost with you to tell the difference sometimes, which leads me to my third point. Thirdly, as a missionary you will need to rely on the Holy Ghost constantly for several reasons aside from avoiding contention. The biggest part of your preparation (and this is advice I got from several return missionaries as I prepared for my mission) will be learning how to keep the Spirit with you, and how to listen when it prompts you and speaks to you. For now you can do a lot of research at FARMS, or the Neal A. Maxwell Institute, where much of the research into these questions is found. Keep praying and studying the scriptures, and God will help you with the rest. May God be with you as you serve him. You will have an experience to treasure for the rest of your life. :)

agreed, when going to hooters is more along the lines of going to an owl exhibit at a zoo, rather than....um....an exhibit on a very specific part of the female human anatomy....yeah, that's it.....well, then I'll believe that the chain was started solely for the sake of liking owls. My grandmother loved owls, but to my knowledge she never heard of Hooters, much less owned one of the shirts....

One of my companions on my mission played the bagpipes. During his mission, he practiced on the chanter alone, or the part with the finger holes where the melody comes from. He was quite good, and he played Praise to the Man all the time.