Carl62

The bottom line for this girl, especially at age 15, is that when she walks into that 'church court' if she doesn't come out feeling better about the situation than when she walked in, then I don't care how one sugar coats it, going to a church court may not have been the right thing for her to do! Kids are very vunerable at this age and if she comes out more distraught then before, then who's there to pick up the pieces? I only hope that whatever happens, the end result is that this girl grows more closer to the church instead of farther away and at that age and under those circumstances, it could go 50/50. My prayers are with her.

Open discussion? So where's that on the board?

I believe that Christianity is a rather hard religion to follow because much IS required. You must 1) have a strong faith in Him followed by, 2) keeping his commandments, which Jesus said is the key in getting us into the Kingdom of God. (Luke 18:18-20). Not an easy task for some people.

This is where it gets into a lot of gray areas and rationalizing, unfortunately. So where do you draw the line on all of this? Why would it be o.k. for me as an LDS to sell liquor to someone knowing that they potentially could go out on the road with it and kill a family of 5, as opposed to running a motel where I would allow patrons to purchase porn on their t.v.s like the Marriotts do, which wouldn't kill anybody? What about owning a convenience store? Are Playboys allowed to be sold there? What about Sports Illustrated swimsuit editions that are on the front racks? Or the general gossip/rag magazines? Whatever happened to 'avoid the appearance of evil'? I could go on with more, but I think you get the idea.

As someone who has played in bands for 20+ years, I've played in hundreds of bars, taverns, nightclubs, you name it, and I've never once given in to tempation because of one simple reason-I just don't have the desire to drink alcohol! Yes, I've tried it (teenager) and yes, you can have it. It's never tempted me once. I just stick with my ole' standby of pepsi or root beer. The only time I experienced any kind of temptation was when we were the opening act at a strip club (no, I'm not kidding!). Even then, after we were done I just went and packed up my stuff and then left (although watching the girls walk around as we were packing up was quite easy on the eyes.:Dlol)

Whoops! I meant 'corporal', not capital.lol O.K., so I was tired when I was typing:D Anyway, I would NEVER use it on any of my kids nor did my parents ever use it on me. Just wonderin' what everybody else thought.

Umm, I don't know what kind of a view you think we have of Jesus, but the Jesus I clearly believe in is the One written about in the four gopsels. The One who spoke great and mystical parables and who gave the wonderful Sermon on the Mount. The One who raised the dead, healed the sick and cleansed the lepers. The One who didn't cast any judgements on even the greatest of sinners and gave forgiveness very warmly and openly. The One who died on the cross to atone for my sins and who arose the third day. THAT'S THE JESUS I BELIEVE IN!!! If this differs from anything else you think we believe, then you need to get your head out of the ridiculous anti-Mormon material. It's a waste of your mental and spirital well being.

Well, aren't you saying the exact same thing to us? It seems like with almost every answer you give, there is an "are you saved?" or something like that in with it. What is it you claim we don't have that YOU do? If you say it's Jesus, all you have to do is go back and re-read every single post on this entire LDS.net board from Mormons who speak of and profess their love and devotion to Him and I think you'll see that we have a definite hard-core faith, trust and belief in Jesus, yet you still continually question it. Why? Don't understand it.

So you say it is ABSOLUTE? I understand that works will follow as a result of your faith, but let's say a year after you're saved you backslide and fall back into sin, will you then still be saved? This for me is where the confusion starts, especially with the Evangelicals/Southern Baptists who believe in the "once saved/always saved" teaching. If this is not true, then where do Evagelicals/Baptists draw the line as to when you are saved, then not saved if you backslide? Can you then get re-saved again? I don't understand this teaching at all. Can somebody splain. Thanks.

Well, for us it is a charitable act because we're taking something that the Lord owns and has allowed us to have possesion of (our money) and we're using it to help others (10%). As far as a person giving ALL that they have to follow in Jesus's footsteps, can you honestly say that you have forsaken EVERYTHING YOU OWN, MATERIALLY AND FINANCIALLY, to be with Jesus? You mean that you don't have a roof over your head that you own/rent? or a nice warm bed? or some mode of transportation? or a *cough* computer in which you type these messages on *cough*? Surely you need money to eat, or to clothe yourself, or to pay your computer bill:p? How do you attain all that since you say that you've sacrificed EVERYTHING, and then try to hold everybody else up to that same standard? In all honesty, if this is what is literally required of us, then heaven is gonna be one loooonely place since, by even the most devout of Christian standards, this seems a bit unrealistic in this day and time. My hats off to anyone who can do it though.

About this whole thing of Evangelicalism vs. Mormonism, I'd just like to say that I have truly accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and I know that he's died on the cross for my sins. Now, according to your teachings, that would mean that my name would then be written in the book of life. A truly wonderful feeling to know.:) Now along with that, I also believe that God has given us living prophets and apostles who guide us in what I believe to be the Lord's church here today on the earth. I believe this because I don't believe in limiting God in what he can do for us today through the Bible as well as even more additional writings he has given us. Now that I have true faith and a belief in Christ in my life, I want to do what I can for him through my works which I know someday I will be rewarded for, with each person receiving a different degree of reward. (John 14:2) Yes, I do believe in works in order to show our love for the Savior. My works actually make me feel closer to God. The biggest work of all is baptism. This shows that I've truly accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior, just the same way that Evangelicals perform the work of rasing their hand in a church service and walking to the front of a pulpit to show their accepting of Jesus. Between the two faiths, what is the difference there? We're both doing a work to show our faith in Jesus, right? I don't see anywhere in the Bible where it says that the way to Jesus is to raise your hand in a church and go to the pulpit. Oh, and tithing is a really important work as well. It's a charitable act in which we as Christians can show others our love by helping them with what He has given us. Does Jesus command this? He most certainly does. As a matter of fact, it's the least we can do considering how much Jesus asked financially of a certain young person in order to inherit the kingdom of God (Luke 18:18-24). With me, I feel like I have the best of both worlds in that I have both God and Jesus in my life, as well as a church that teaches that our families can be together forever and that I may one day see my closest friends and deceased relatives through the beautiful doctrine of baptism for the dead. My life in knowing that the Lord is in my heart and in my life, as well as having the added bonus of being a part of His Church, is all good.:):)

I still can't wrap my head around the idea that, we as a society, condone hitting our children on the butt and that's o.k., yet if I slap my girlfriend across the face, I'm spending the night in jail (at least that long) on charges of battery. Don't get the double standard. Also, not to throw a boomerang into this thread, but another form of corporal punishment is washing a childs mouth out with soap (remember Ralphie in "A Christmas Story"?). So what's everybodys thoughts on this? Soap or no soap? I've heard of children actually dying from this by their throats swelling up from an allergic reaction and then not being able to breathe!

Welcome to the board Juliet.:)

"God Only Knows" by The Beach Boys. A song that Paul McCartney once referred to as "the greatest love song ever written".

They weren't even active on their missions.lol

Gee, it's interesting that you would say that considering a major part of what got me into trouble was that very same thing. After I was given a companion (he was the senior companion, I was junior comp.) who just happened to be Satan in a white shirt and name badge who broke every rule in the book up, down, left and right, of which I wanted no part of, I was then HEAVILY coerced into telling the assistants to the president as to what happened against my better judgement (was this the Holy Spirit trying to tell me something?) and after being PROMISED that not a word of this would be leaked to my comp. So after I said all that happened, my comp. the next day calls one of the assistants and asks who said what. Well, the assistant pulled a George Washington saying "I cannot tell a lie, yes it was Elder ......" That's when all hell broke loose including a near fist fight in which three other missionaries had to break us up along with being called every vile name imaginable (yes, from missionaries!). But that wasn't the worst part because this missionary just happened to have 4 other missionaries who he was best buds with (including one of the assistants) who did everything they could to make whatever time left on their mission rough for me, including spreading out-n-out lies to make my name mud. They even used the pulpit during testimonial meetings to take stabs at me! Believe me, I had to be stopped from packing my bags more than once. I honestly didn't care anymore. The only reason I finished was because I didn't want to disappoint my parents. It's 20 years later and time heals all wounds, which is why I'm striving to get myself back in a positive frame of mind towards the church and the gospel. So far, so good.:)

I thought I'd take this time to introduce myself, say hi to everyone and tell my story. I was baptized in the church 30 years ago at the age of 16. I loved every part of this church from the moment I was baptized right up until the time I graduated from Ricks College then got my mission call. I even got my mother and father in the church and baptized them! My mission was something that I was looking forward to and couldn't wait to go. Unfortunately and ironically, it was while I was on my mission that everything with the church came crashing down on me. To make a veerry long story very short, I was accused of something that I had absolutely no part of while I was on the mission. It was one of my roommates, but I somehow came to be the scapegoat to various people on the mission regardless of how I pleaded my case. I did everything that was expected of me with baptisms, tracting, visiting members, etc. but I still couldn't get rid of the black cloud that hung over me for most of the 18 months ( I had the 18 month long mission back in '82). One of many things that happened was I got pulled into a bishop's office my third day in one new area and about got my head ripped off over all this. Despite what I said to him about not being a part of the situation, he still made his verbal threats. Again, that was one of many things that happened including not being granted leadership positions while on the mission. My self-esteem was shot! I lost all faith in the leadership of the mission (and almost in the church). My mission finally comes to an end and now here's the real kicker. Two weeks after my mission ended, I come to find out from a missionary friend of mine that my last companion, who I had for six months, actually wrote a letter to the mission president about what a terrific missionary and influence I was and that the entire letter was read out loud to the whole mission by the mission president himself! Go figure. Despite that, after all the hell I'd been through for most of that time, the damage had been done. I came home, went to Utah State, then eventually went completely inactive for over the last 20+ years. Now, I'm slowly trying to work things out by starting to go back to church again. I'm trying to get my faith back in the leadership and so far, through prayer and scripture reading, everything's going a lot better. I do like being back in my old ward and seeing all the faces I hadn't seen in awhile. As of right now, that's where it ends (and hopefully begins). I do have a testimony of the church, but right now, it's kind of on crutches.lol I do hope to get myself completely healed spiritually and get on the track that I was on once before. Keep me in your prayers. Thanks.