lost87

this is a very interesting thread. Is that a covenant that you make in the temple?

while I may be in the minority, i wouldn't say its the "very tiny minority"....I mean, come one, we are mormon, at any given time half the ward is pregnant...and they can't fast for 24 hours either

fasting isn't about how many hours you go, or what you do or don't eat. i don't think the Lord is any less accepting as long as your heart and desires are in the right place. i personally cannot go more than 3 hours without eating or I pass out and my heart rate exponentially increases and my Blood pressure plummits...btw, that causes heart failure eventually. For a while I thought that if I had enough faith I would just deal with those consequences and continue to fast...the Lord would take care of me even if i was killing my body (literally). well, I don't think the Lord is in the business of rewarding or supporting stupidity, and i was being stupid. My bishop explained that its our heart and desire to make the sacrifice, not our actual ability to do so, and all but forbid me from the traditional 24 hour fast (perhaps he was tired of me losing conciousness at church? idk) because that isn't as important as our desire and commitment to the Lord.

I think that its not readily available because its not a saving principle or doctrine. No one should join the church based on any of its programs, but because it has the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. That is the emphasis of the church, not the YW's program, or anything else

ummm...since when are kids not allowed to say the pledge of allegiance in schools? I was in my 6 year old brothers 1st grade class last friday where the children said the pledge of allegiance along with all the other classes, guided by the principle on the PA system.....

This progression is soooooo true! something that you rationalize as a simple little "no big deal" completely destroys your faith and devotion...good to know that its something that can be rebuilt though, thanks firewater. And I've read through this whole thing...for clarification....is it true that after a slip regarding the law of chastity (whether it be masturbation or sex, either way) you will need to wait a year to go to the temple?

ok....here is the thing, your not taking responsibility for any of this. you say you dated a girl who was "not as good as she should be", and that she put her hand below the belt, and that she put your hand below hers etc...and NEVER admit that you had control of the situation and could have stopped it before any of it started. you could have moved her hand before it ever got there, or pulled your hand away when she was moving it toward herself...in truth you are both responsible, not just her. That being said, you did well in stopping it before any more happened and ought to be proud of that. Talk to your bishop aout everything, its not going to be a huge deal now, but it will be a tremendous weight throughout your mission if you do not. Don't stress about it, just get it taken care of and stay clean from here on out.

I guess my main question is how do you go about rebuilding all of those things? What can I/we do?

absolutely positive he is worth it, I don't want anyone else

I realize now that breaking the law of chastity does a lot of harm to a relationship, the way you view one another, the respect you have for eachother, the spiritualy connection, the way you talk to eachother...just so many things are damaged. Other then the obvious stopping the sin and working toward repentence with priesthood authority, what can be done to mend all of those things? will they just naturally right themselves as we come closer to the savior and stay clean from here on out, will it take more than that, or are they permanently broken? after almost 1 month of keeping the law of chastity 100% for the both of us things seem to be getting better, much better, but is there more we can do? thanks so much and I ope everyone is doing well!

for some silly reason I thought Christ was the core of our belief? Perhaps I'm mistaken.

I think you are misinterpreting what margin said. He is not at all saying that the holiness of sex is divided from the gift of life that comes from the sacred union...in fact, we believe the sexual union of a married man and woman is sacred BECAUSE of the life that comes from it...not at all independent of life.

DHowsen...do you happen to live in the southwest? I used to and it was very much as you described...then I moved out to the southeast, away from mormonville where the minority members aren't the converts, but rather the life-long members and its completely different. Every sunday brings more diversity to the ward and we all kinda just embrace it and enjoy the new company....its sooooo wonderful! Out here converts are appreciated for their courage and stories, and just about everyone (at least I think so) is welcome.

as a general rule only the "european classical" stringed instruments are permitted during sacrament meeting...violin, cello, viola, harp, piano...no guitar, sorry! This is how it has been in every ward/stake/branch I have been in from AZ to UT to TN to Germany and Russia. Its a pretty solid guideline throughout the church and has been for as long as I can remember...

in support of this statement....specialist are DEFINATELY not needed. Now not even doctors are needed...all RN's are trained in how to administer the medicines that induce abortion, and how to perform emergency surgical abortions....It is a requirement in most RN programs, including my own. We aren't required to actually do it, but we have to know how in case our patient requires it immediately to save her life.

ok...I am a hardcore democrat most of the time....but IF your interpretation of this law is correct then I completely am against it. I need to read the ACTUAL bill and not some of these one sided news stories and public announcements (conservative and liberal alike) to get the whole picture.

anatess....This whole post kinda suggests that Fatima is saying that even when medically necessary, abortion is wrong....infact it strait out says it... the actual catholic position is different as you explained (thanks btw), but what fatima has said about it doesn't follow that position.

you and I both martybess

I hope not...that would make the crusades a little tough to explain!

fatima...its clear that you have no understanding of medicine. FYI...the health/life of the mother is paramount because if she dies obviously neither live. Generally speaking a medically necessary means that there is no chance the mother will survive...stage 4 cancer (especially a cancer such as Leukemia) would not qualify. An example could be uterine hemorrhaging... Would it make sense to you to allow a woman to bleed to death right in front of you which would also kill the fetus when surgically repairing the tear in the uterus would save the womans life, though it would terminate the pregnancy? We are talking about doing absolutely nothing and allowing two to die when you can save one. If you were to truly say "absolutely no abortion regardless of the circumstance" then doctors and nurses would literally just have to stand there and watch the woman in front of them die...im sorry, but that is against the hippocratic oath AND ethical medicine. As a nurse its not my job to say..."oh, im sorry dear, i can't help you, your going to have to die because there is a 5 week embryo in your stomach that is going to die anyway"...no ma'am.

just a guy..thanks, that was very informative!

One thing that needs to be understood is that not at all abortions are elective. Not all women choose to abort a pregnancy. Right now, independent of whether health care reform passes or not your tax dollars already in a very tiny small amount (I mean lets face it, a few thousand a year MAYBE going to the government and divided between ALL the different needs...very little goes to health care anyway) go to funding abortions. There are many cases where a pregnant woman presents to the ER or other health care facilities and an abortion is performed because the woman will not live without it. People need to understand that at times ending a pregnancy is medically necessary.

I used to get headaches like that and a few things helped...first off I completely cut 5 things out of my diet...like COMPLETELY...they were bananas, chocolate (terrible, i know), caffeine, anything with tomatoes, and hot dogs...odd list..but the neurologist suggested it and i've not had any since i was 8 and am doing pretty good! Also, they put me on a Beta blocker, its usually a heart med but does wonders for these kinds of headaches! Maybe you could look into it with your doc, I am on proponolol (sp?) in low doses and haven't had a bad headache in ages. I hope your feeling better!

I think that sometimes the Lord knows that we already have the answer. I don't know who said it, but someone said that "no other success will make up for failure in the home", or something to that affect. I don't know who said it, but someone said that "no other success will make up for failure in the home", or something to that affect. Perhaps which are the two sets of consequences are more important though? From the way you write and the things you say, I think you already have your decision. Maybe the Lord thinks that you know what the right thing to do for yourself and your family is and is just waiting to see if you'll take the leap of faith it would require. That's how it has worked out for me several times...I pray so hard for an answer to a question I already know and the Lord just waits for me to take the step of faith. I would quite the job.