Seminarysnoozer

I don't know if he understands them better than we did in the pre-mortal existence at least in terms of understanding through faith. He had all the information in front of him just like we did and yet he chose another path. Is that because he didn't understand them or didn't "buy into it"? I think part of our understanding was based in faith and not a perfect understanding. Obviously, Lucifer didn't have the faith that those who chose to keep with God's plan did. This is a character issue, not a level of understanding issue. Many people in this life reject truth even though it is plainly before them, they lack faith and they have become hardened to the spirit. I think he still doesn't comprehend or "buy into" the idea that faith is required to have all that God has. So laws and principles that pertain to the building of faith or the testing of faith probably have no significance to him.

In part, it might be that Satan has dominion, for a time, over physical Earth whereas the realm of God is spiritual. Satan reveals himself via physical means but because he is spirit alone he cannot reveal himself spiritually at least without our spirit allowing for such a thing. Our being is a dual being, physical and spirit. Which aspect of the dual being we pay attention to is the test we face and the temptation we face. The "whisperings" or loud signals for that matter, come through the natural desires of the body. This is why the natural man is an enemy to God. Where the still small voice comes from spiritual influences and takes a lot of effort to recognize and follow. Satan, in that way, reveals himself constantly, through the natural desires of the corrupted body. Paul does a great job describing the fruits and effects of things that are of the flesh versus things of the spirit.

I think what this shows too is that God's power is obtained, in part, vicariously. Empathy is a godly power. Empathy taken to it's fullest is what allows Christ to pay for our sins and for God to know what we are thinking. It also allows anyone who has such a skill to obtain the glory from acts that they did not personally perform but feel it and experience it as if they did it their self. I think that is an important Godlike characteristic that He screens for in this life when He tells us that loving our neighbor like our self is important. It is a way to screen those that have the potential to really become Celestial. As those who can mourn with those who mourn and rejoice in the success of others are those that have the potential to be like God. God can take all the good things that happened before Him and claim it as His own as He has perfect empathy, as if He has been around forever and in that way has works without end. This is how God can reward us with all that He has in the end but only if we are willing to receive it. By the example of Christ, paying for sins vicariously and giving glory to God as well as all the other examples you are referring to, we know that glory can be shared for acts that the individual did not personally perform. I think it takes a celestial character, though, to be able to experience and enjoy all that is done in the name of God. This is how one member does not make the body and one member cannot say that it doesn't have need for another when it is all shared.

Discerning right from wrong to help one make a choice between right from wrong for their self is a separate issue from judging someone. (I think) To "think" someone is wrong doesn't take the spirit, I agree but that is not the same as "judging". If I was walking down the street alone and I saw a man coming towards me who looks as if he could harm me (irregardless of whether he would or not), I might cross the street to the other side. Is that judging? Or, if I have someone work on my house in the middle of the day, I might not want to be alone with the person by myself and have my husband or someone else with me here as they do their work, for safety, is that judging? I would say though, if I am guided by the spirit in those situations, I am not going to feel bad about making those decisions. If I made those decisions without the promptings of the spirit I might be missing an opportunity to change someone's life because of what I "thought"and not felt.

This may be why the perfected body is not made from dust, the materials even have to be of a different type, for some reason which we are not told, when we are resurrected. It is not just the way they are put together or having control over them but using totally different materials.

I think "the spirit's guidance" is the key. I think there are very few times in which the spirit (which is not a spirit of contention) would provide such knowledge. It would have to be in situations in which there was a need to judge and make permanent judgements for which the person will be standing witness to in the next life. For example, if a missionary knocks on a door and they righteously try to share the gospel with someone and despite their best effort they feel by the spirit that they are not willing to receive the message, they can make the judgement to move on. They may be called in the next life to stand witness that they gave them the opportunity to receive the gospel but they didn't. Ultimately, to judge requires knowing what is in a person's heart as well as completely understanding all the variables that we cannot see for ourselves. So, "the spirit's guidance" is one of revealing what is in that person's heart, what is the desire of their heart. That kind of thing, nobody is going to get by watching 20-20 or the evening news etc., or even going to a legal court. Even if someone is convicted of a crime by law, that doesn't tell us what is in their heart. I know I don't have that ability to see what is in the heart of a person, except when I have certain stewardship given, like with my children or at times when I was in the Young Women's presidency so I could help someone in need. For example, we may not know if a mass murderer does what he does because that is in his heart or does he have a brain tumor that did not allow his spirit to dictate his actions at that moment, etc. So, even things that may outwardly seem like an obvious sin cannot be determined by our limited view of the total situation.

I don't think you are wrong. I think it is a powerful statement of your faith in Christ, to believe that if you have faith you could be one with Christ. I think there is a fracture in faith when one believes that they could not be totally saved and receive all that God and Christ have. Receiving all means exactly that, to receive all. It means to receive the glory of all the things that have been done before, including the glory from being a Savior. Of course, if one is not worthy to be in the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom the one doesn't receive all. So, it is predicated on doing all the things that are necessary to be in the highest level. What are the additional steps beyond mortality to get to that point? Those details we don't know. But, what we do know is that the power of Christ and God is to be able to pass glory from one to the other. And Christ has the ability to do glorious things for someone who hasn't done it for their self, like what happened in the Garden of Gethsemane. If we have faith in Him, then we have faith in His ability to pass glory and to experience others experiences without having done it himself. It is a God-like quality to have that ability, by His example. So, we too, if we receive all that God has, will have the ability to experience things we did not do our self but as if we did them. This would allow us to do as we see the Father did. And this would allow the Father to "do" all the things that were done before Him, making Him without beginning or end.

I have considered this question too. I wonder if it is a day to recognize and appreciate the work that is done. In other words, there may be value in the appreciation of work done which is different than being aware that things will get done in the future. It is a time to see the works and know that they are good. Just like there is some value to God to "bring to pass" certain things. At the point at which something is done there is value in taking note of the thing that has passed. In a way, that is what we do on Sunday, give thanks for the things done.

And like I have explained, I am not talking about what the Lord can or cannot do but how we discern what is done. That is within our power and is in fact our duty and our test. People try to find God in all sorts of ways. If one doesn't care whether the message comes in the form of a shape the toaster made on a piece of bread versus "inspiration" they get from smoking pot or trying to make themselves more awake during their sleep so they remember their dreams thinking God is communicating with them that way, that is up to them. But it is within our right and duty to talk about it which shouldn't bring any offense. If you are so sensitive about limits then if someone said the Lord pushed their fingers around a Ouija Board, I suppose you would simply say; 'okay that is possible' in respect of not putting limits on the Lord. For me, I would say; "the Lord doesn't communicate that way." I realize I could be wrong. But that is my opinion. (By the way, REM stands for rapid eye movement.)

I probably know neurologists better as my husband is one and I have an advanced degree in neuroscience and have been working with both neurologists and neurosurgeons in a University setting for more than 20 years. I have many published studies in the field of neurology and neurosurgery. But, I know that makes no difference to you. Tell me, what difference does it make if "inspired dreams" turn out to be visions that occur while a person is in between stages of sleeping, they are pulled out of sleep to have a vision in a conscious state and then fall back asleep (so there is no perception that they have left sleep) as opposed to receiving information while unconscious (asleep)? Why is that so important and so offensive to you? I don't get the defensiveness about such an idea. Does it change some ideology of the gospel for you?

It is a matter of by how much we have fallen. If one thinks man has not fallen very far then their view of the greatness of salvation is equally proportioned. I choose to believe that we have fallen very far and thus humble myself in this state and realize that I need a Savior to pull me out of this very fallen, carnal corrupted state. Pride drives people to think that they are not that fallen, that they are similar to the way they were before coming here. I believe the veil has blocked most spiritual influence. I can't give you some exact percentage of how much the spirit is in control but I can tell you it is very difficult to have spiritual influence to the point that if nothing is done natural man (i.e - the body, brain) continues to have it's influence. In fact it takes a good 8 years for the spirit to even have a fighting chance to overcome the body's influence. It is this way for a reason, so we turn to a Savior because we can't win the battle by ourselves. Our spirit is pure when we enter this life as we all passed the first estate and yet we are still called fallen the moment we are born. How is it possible that we are "fallen" if the spirit is pure? Because the body is corrupted in our dual being existence of both body and spirit. This is a basic concept of our religion in which Paul, David O. Mckay and many others have outlined numerous times. This is not my idea. A 4 year old is in a fallen state while in this mortal existence and yet if she dies before 8 merits the Celestial Kingdom. How is that? because the body that makes it so she is in a fallen state is not her. (I know you know this, I am stating this for everyone reading) Again, to distinguish or discern what is carnal and what is spiritual is a constant battle. I don't care if we don't know all the details. All we have to know is that there is a difference and we try to distinguish the two all the time. The Holy Spirit helps us distinguish the two influence. To experience the influence of the Holy Spirit requires conscious effort. The story of Joseph Smith is an example of how to invite the Holy Spirit's influence, by study, ponder and prayer (asking) all of which do not take place in an altered state of consciousness. I don't think we have to go hunting for some alternative way to reach answers, like lucid dreaming or other forms of altered states of consciousness in which the spirit is even less influential. Christ told the apostles to not fall asleep and yet they did, why? Because even though their spirit wanted to stay awake and continue to invite the spiritual influence, the spirit is willing but the body is stronger in this mortal state. That is not a source of despair but an opportunity to turn to God. This is why it is set up that way - the carnal influence greater than spiritual, so we humble ourselves and turn to God.

Haha, neurologists know more about the brain than neurosurgeons, in my opinion. Revelation is revelation, I am not arguing that point. I was trying to distinguish a flaw in our language, in that the word "dream" in the scriptures is used often for an inspired dream or vision whereas in common vernacular the word "dream" means what happens in REM sleep. You and I and most people on this forum know the difference but the casual reader may not. And even as the member starts to use the term over and over again the definitions get blurred because we don't make an attempt to separate the two. I am not trying to explain what dreams are necessarily so much as the definition of "dream" in how it is used commonly which is the description of the fabricated storyline sometimes remembered that comes from REM sleep. Yes there is a lot to learn but the circuitry involved is fairly well mapped out. The whole idea of understanding better what is spiritual verses carnal is very important to our religion. Resistance to that is not a positive thing. Our ability to discern the two is vital. One victory for Satan is when we say there is no difference or why care about the difference, all is well, all is good, who cares!

I am perplexed why you are so offended, I am doing just the opposite of what you are saying. I am trying to make a distinction between "inspired dreams" and the dreams that occur in our diseased body as opposed to lumping them all together. Everyone else is okay with lumping them together. You of all people, because this is your bread and butter, should realize that all of our bodies are "diseased". We are fallen creatures. The flesh opposes the spirit. Things that are fleshy detract from the spirit. Many of Paul's epistles point that out over and over again. This is not my lone argument. Our bodies are corrupted and do corrupted things like fabricating ideas, fill in the blanks and frankly imagine things to be real that are not. The body alone cannot distinguish between that which comes from the flesh versus that which comes from the spirit. But the spirit can distinguish. This is why in a state of altered consciousness one has less ability to know of the spirit. The spirit in this life has to act according to the flesh. So, when the flesh is 'offline' so is the spirit. Of course, when that situation doesn't exist, like when someone is transfigured then we are talking about a different situation. In that setting the body isn't a corrupted, fallen "flesh". Could a person be transfigured while they are asleep? Sure, but then that isn't dreaming.

This is what makes the difference; a dream is from the body not the spirit. If it is a spirit to spirit communication then it is a vision. That is exactly my point. If spirits sleep then I guess I am wrong.

"Altered states of consciousness" includes "dreams" by what is a commonly accepted definition of sleep and dreaming!!!! So, how am I the only one who has mentioned altered states? This is why my very first comment was one of saying that it is unfortunate that we now have this definition of "dream" and yet it has been traditionally used in the scriptures to signify a vision. The scriptures were not written to accommodate all the future uses and definitions of all the words in them. All scriptures and words from the prophets have to be interpreted and looked at with a general understanding of their context and limitation of language. How have I argued against what you said in your first paragraph? If anything, what you are saying supports what I have been saying. I have said that the proper way is to do it just as you described happened to you, to put many hours into study with scriptures and prayer and pay attention to how you feel, the conscious awareness of the spirit giving you understanding. Let me ask you, is REM sleep or any stage of sleep for that matter considered an altered state of consciousness? The way to tell if one is in an altered state of consciousness is not by asking the person how they feel during the episode as they have an altered state of consciousness. A person with Alzheimer's dementia is often times indifferent to their condition, to them everything is just fine. Often when a person is drunk, they don't feel like they are until after they clear that state of mind. Why? because those are states where the spirit is communicating with the body less not more. In a state of altered consciousness a person's spirit is loosely communicating to the body, the body (the brain) is in major control. When a person with bipolar disease goes into a manic episode and wants to break into the temple to directly speak with God without going through the proper steps is that the body speaking or their spirit? Likewise, in a dream, meaning REM stage of sleep, is that the body or the spirit speaking? If it is the spirit then every time the teenager has a wet dream, he should repent for having such thoughts, right? Or if a person dreams about killing their boss, they should repent for having such a thought, right? We say "no" to having to repent to those thoughts in those types of dreams because we realize that that is not what is in the desire of their heart. The brain fabricated those thoughts while in a state of altered consciousness. Dr. William C. Dement, the father of REM sleep (the one who discovered dreaming sleep in the 60's) and a professor of sleeping and dreaming at Stanford University, describes a dream as "a vivid, complex, hallucinatory experience generally accepted as real by the dreamer." 'Sleep is considered an altered state of consciousness. Most recognize a dream upon awakening as a random fabricated reality but during the dream the dreamer is unaware of its fabrication.' (The Promise of Sleep, By William Dement M.D.)

Hmmmm, I am looking back through my posts and I never used the word "impossible". But, I will say that I have relaxed my view about this after discussing with Addenex and others. Yes, for sure God could deliver messages any way He chooses, even through a piece of toasted bread with the image of Christ on it. But, my discussion wasn't about limiting God it was about where we go to learn about God and communicate with Him. People try to find God in the oddest of places and through the oddest of methods all the time. Some will try to smoke marijuana to find spiritual enlightenment, for example. The point I was trying to make is that the most often used method of communicating with God requires conscious effort. It usually requires prayerful thought, pondering and being in tune to the spirit, like when Daniel interpreted the dream. Some people chant to put themselves in an altered state to hope to find spiritual enlightenment. And there are some that try to have lucid dreams to communicate with God. If God chooses to communicate with us when we aren't listening (at least consciously) then He can do that but I wouldn't promote the idea. Again, we are talking about what we do, not what is possible for God. I believe God would rather have us learn conscious control over our body rather than use methods of loss of control. Maybe my belief is wrong but that is what I get from the gospel of Christ, the more excellent way. Yes, before Christ came there was the physical law of circumcision and so the focus was on the physical body but now we are to be circumcised of spirit, the more excellent way to allow us to be closer to God.

Look, all I am trying to do is separate what is "inspired dreams" versus any old dream and the thought that using the word "dream" alone does not attempt to make that distinction. As I said originally, it is unfortunate that the word "dream" is used because it is not that specific. Even in your discussion, now, you have resorted to using the term "inspired dreams" which is great. This is what I was getting at. I believe in "dreams" that are visions. I am not arguing against having visions or personal revelation that comes through visions. I am simply trying to point out that both faith and inspiration do not come while in a state of unconsciousness. I am not sure why you want to believe that while anyone is unconscious they can express either faith or be inspired. I disagree with that notion. Certainly, they could express their faith and their inspiration after a dream is over and they ponder it while awake. But during sleep, which is an unconscious state by definition this is just impossible. So, either one believes that inspiration is possible outside the methods that are outlined, such as spirit to spirit communication during consciousness, feeling the spirit, pondering and praying, being in touch with the spirit etc. or one believes that we can "feel" the spirit when we are not feeling anything because we are unconscious. In the same way "light" does not mean the light that comes from a light bulb etc. in a literal sense, one should also look at "dream" the same way. We also don't equate heartburn with burning in the chest. For some reason "dream" is a little harder to separate for people even though in the scriptures it says in the topic guide under "dream" - see vision. Most scripture is in the form of metaphor and symbols. Most of the time it is not meant to be a scientific text to be taken literally as if it is describing some physiology of sleep circuitry in the brain. If I want to communicate with God, taking an Ambien is not on the list of options. Just like I don't try to stare at the sun to receive "light" or eat a lot of spicy food to get a burning in the bosom.

So, if you so strongly believe that God can communicate to us when we are unconscious and therefore we cannot use the typical methods of determining whether we are feeling the spirit at that time as the person obviously is not feeling anything when they are unconscious; How can one determine whether a dream is a message from God or just a dream? Of course, your response cannot be anything related to after the event in terms of pondering the event, thinking about it and receiving some confirmation from the Holy Spirit that it was indeed a communication from God as that is what I have been saying all along. I have been saying that the real communication comes from a spirit to spirit connection during wakefulness and not during sleep of any stage. So, without you using any form of wakefulness as a to determine what is from God or not, tell me how one can know that it is a message from God and not just some random dream. Especially since the church spends no effort in teaching us such things. I have never had a class on dream interpretation, or the proper method of reaching a lucid dream state to communicate with God. All you who think this is an accepted way to attempt to communicate with God, please show me the official instructions on such a thing. I suspect if you find anything on it, it will only say that some have received "dreams" (which really means visions, as the Topical Guide in the scriptures says "See Visions" under the topic of "dreams"). And then there may be discussion about personal revelation requiring study, ponder, listening to the spirit etc. ... all the things that require wakefulness. Don't include any of that in your instructions as that is what I already agree is the proper way to receive personal revelation, there is no argument there. My brother in law, who is in the Stake Presidency, told me the other day that he had a dream in which it was a peaceful feeling of floating up into the clouds and when he got so high he couldn't breath anymore he suddenly found himself in a place where there were many people walking around in white robes. He assumed this was heaven. Then he saw God looking out a window of a tall building as he was chewing on a bloody piece of meat. That made him feel suddenly scared. He then heard a voice, "don't be scared." And at that moment he felt drips of blood from the piece of meat hit his face. My brother in law tells me that this was a dream to tell him that it was okay to eat raw or barely cooked meat, that it wouldn't hurt him. I told him I thought it was just a dream but obviously, according to you all, I have no idea what I am talking about. Last night, I had a dream of finding a large egg on my porch. It cracked open and a beautiful butterfly came out of it, purple and green and orange. Then suddenly, I was swimming off the coast of Ensenada and I dove down under the water and saw several Garibaldi. I swam after one of them but couldn't catch it. When I got closer it started to turn purple. Then I woke up .... which allowed me to remember the dream by thinking about what was stored in my active memory for the past 5 minutes. So, was that a message from God? It must be if Addenex is saying that it is a "huge" way that God communicates with his children. I have no idea what to learn from that dream, I would rather learn from reading the scriptures and feeling the spirit. But I guess, to each her own.

Sorry if I came across that way. I was more trying to have a deeper discussion about the misconception a lot of people have when using the word "dream". I agree with everything you have said above. In fact I think the article you gave is perfect. 99% of it talks about all the things that have to be done in the conscious state before receiving the inspiration or revelation, which was part of my point. Then the message may come at any point, such as when it happens at night and a person was sleeping and they are pulled out of sleep to receive a vision, a "dream". Not to be confused with REM sleep. I the same paragraph that you highlighted "visions and dreams" it also says "light and intelligence". Am I to understand then that I should make sure that when I am receiving information that I am in a well lit area or that when I receive intelligence I should glow like a light bulb? .... it says "light". That has in fact happened, when the early elders received inspiration their countenance changed. So, should I look for ways to make my skin look lighter? Or should I stare into the sun to receive revelation? Likewise, I wouldn't over interpret the word "dream". A dream in this sense is a vision. It is not REM sleep. Just like "light" is not a light bulb or the sun etc.

The only reason I am using drunkenness or drugs etc. is because that is an example where the brain is alert but the person retains very little recall of their actions or has limited perception and they typically do not act like themselves. The state the brain is in during sleep is similar. Could God teach someone when they are in a drunken like state? Sure, but this is not God's preferred method. Like the story of the first vision, God would prefer that we study it out in our mind and ponder over things for a while and then ask during a state of consciousness. Look up "Altered state of consciousness", for a basic understanding of what I am talking about. On wikipedia for example it states that ASC can be reached by "lucid dreaming" as well as being drunk, meningitis, designer drugs, during child birth, etc. Jesus asked the apostles to not fall asleep but the body is weak, even when the spirit is willing. People should not pray for dreams, they should pray for understanding and a confirmation from the spirit, both of which take consciousness. Do you believe the image of Jesus that comes out on a piece of toasted bread is from God? Jesus brought a more excellent way to learn of God and to worship him. Lets not forget that even Lehi's dream occurred before the more excellent way was introduced. The more excellent way is through the spirit, the Holy Ghost not through the law pertaining to the body. These are similar arguments by Paul in 1 Corinthians 12 : " 1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. 2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led. 3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit." He hoped the people wouldn't stay in the state of ignorance being led by physical signs but realize now, with Jesus Christ that "no man can say that Jesus is the Lord but by the Holy Ghost." not by idols or physical signs anymore. And at the end of the chapter he calls this the more excellent way. We covet the gifts of the spirit, not the gifts of the physical. " 31 But acovet earnestly the best bgifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way."

Not sure how you are defining "alert". It is active, for sure. The brain uses as much energy at night as it does during the day. Sleep is an active process. But if you are using the word "alert" to signify some kind of level of consciousness that the person is in control of, I disagree with that. Drunkenness fits the same description, the brain is alert but but the person may not have conscious control. Or under the influence of drugs, etc. People describe having control over dreams etc. but what is happening there (and yes this has been studied watching brain waves during sleep) is that the person momentarily wakes up and there is sleep-state misperception. In other words, the person thinks they are asleep when they are not. Whenever one's brain makes sleep it erases memory of what just happened over the last 2 to 5 minutes. So, going in and out of sleep would make it hard to keep track of time and the person can string together several wake episodes as if they were in control of their dreams as there is dreaming in between the episodes of wakefulness. On top of that, you would have to define "mind". The brain is active but of course, LDS believe we are dual beings, both spirit and body. So, having one of them active and in control alone is not necessarily "our self" or considered the "mind". Satan uses the things that come from this world to have influence over. God speaks through the spirit. Could God use physical things to communicate? Sure, I will give you all that. But does He usually use that medium? No. At this time, that is the domain of Satan. God speaks through the Holy Spirit directly to our spirit. We are taught to seek Him through the spirit, not physical means other than getting the physical under reverent control so we can hear the spirit. For example, we don't get drunk to find God.

That is because you failed to mention learned women. :) You are right, "what causes" any physiology of the body could be argued but how is a different topic. We do know the how and where of REM and non-REM sleep circuitry in the brain as well as many other functions. .... bones are less complicated. What God can do and what He does may be two different things. That is an argument found in "man's" court of law, if there is any suspicion it could be done another way then the proposed way is false. Great argument!

If the brain is unconscious then it is the spirit that is receiving the message. Believing there is such a thing as unconscious learning is farther out there then saying we know the neuroanatomy of REM sleep.

Matthew 1: " 19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily. 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost." Clearly, David was not asleep when he had this dream-like experience. You said; "Thus, context of the statement is very important. Lehi's words, "in my dream", is a statement of something that happened while he was asleep. " Are you then assuming David was asleep in the above scripture? How else could a person describe such an experience and especially when they would have no understanding of neuroanatomy and sleep circuitry the way we do now. Describing it as a dream is completely acceptable for their limited understanding of neuroanatomy. Now though, we realize that dreaming is an unconscious event and therefore not anything close to what we are taught is the method of being in touch with the spirit. Like Joseph Smith, we are to ponder it in our minds over and over again and then ask in prayer. Attempting to find an answer or a source of inspiration is not done by making one self unconscious. We don't smoke weed to find God, we don't try to induce a near death experience to find God, we don't find God by chanting ourselves into a state of limited consciousness and we don't expect to find God in the unconscious state of sleep. We are told the complete opposite method, to study, to ponder, to search in our mind which is with consciousness and awareness that we approach our understanding. I think it would be perfectly fine to put in place of "dream", "dream-like state" to better understand the process so we avoid any misconception about what happened. "I had a dream-like vision while in a dream-like state." The topical guide in the scriptures under "Dream" says, "See also Vision". I think you are right about the context issue but the context being the person who is perceiving the vision and their language they would use to describe it. For example, King Nebuchadnezzar describes it as a dream and gets mad at his wise men when they suggest only God could know because he, at that time, didn't comprehend that it was a vision from God. But when Daniel receives the same message it is called a night vision, as it should be called because he knows it was from God not from his brain; Daniel 2; " 19 Then was the secret revealed unto Daniel in a night vision. Then Daniel blessed the God of heaven. 20 Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his"

Sleep, by definition, is an unconscious state. Just keep that in mind. :)