carlimac

A hardy thanks to you!! It means the world to parents of missionaries to have people like you looking out for them. I'd hug you if I could.

"Morality" from dictionary.com : 1.conformity to the rules of right conduct; moral or virtuous conduct. 2. moral quality or character. 3. virtue in sexual matters; chastity. 4. a doctrine or system of morals. 5. moral instruction; a moral lesson, precept, discourse, or utterance. 6. morality play. I think one can have high moral standards without defining who their God is. Morality is universal across all belief systems except those that are anti-social. "Antisocial" from dictionary.com: –adjective 1. unwilling or unable to associate in a normal or friendly way with other people: He's not antisocial, just shy. 2. antagonistic, hostile, or unfriendly toward others; menacing; threatening: an antisocial act. 3. opposed or detrimental to social order or the principles on which society is constituted: antisocial behavior. 4. Psychiatry . of or pertaining to a pattern of behavior in which social norms and the rights of others are persistently violated. When I say antisocial I don't mean shy or unsociable. I'm talking about 2-4.

Here's a story for you!! A non-LDS friend of mine emailed me to ask if our missionaries carried laptops with them. I answered NO as far as I know. The only electronics my son is allowed is a camera and a CD player with no earphones. When I asked her "why" she answered that another Non-LDS friend of hers had seen some clean cut looking young men in McDonalds and assumed the were LDS missionaries. They proceded to pull out a laptop and seemed very engrossed in what they were looking at. When she walked by their table she noticed that it was porn. I assured her that it was highly unlikely that would ever happen. Was I right?Sometimes I prefer to live in a little bubble and so I'm not aware of or don't want to acknowledge all the icky stuff in the world. I've heard all kinds of ugly stories of missionaries breaking rules but this one sounds over the top. I'm almost completely sure it wouldn't have been LDS missionaries blatantly breaking rules in public like that. I don't want to start any rumors. But at the same time, could this possibly have happened?

There are bad apples in every bunch. It doesn't make the church any less true just because some lazy, immature young men areout there. They'll get their "reward" eventually. I'd rather get bad stats than lie and then have to face my maker about it.

Gwen, I agree. That kind of preparation is vital for them. I don't see that we aren't preparing our kids for the realities of missions and life. But I DO see many adult members of the church ( and this could include some mission presidents) who want to come off looking good and who have a successful air about them that is artificial. Maybe that's why they pressure their missionaries so hard- so they can appear as if they have been successful themselves. Just a hunch. I think as members of the church we have a hard time letting our failures become public. I see this much more living in the west than I did in the midwest. For one thing, the women out here wear so much more make-up and jewelry than they did in Minnesota. It's interesting to watch. We had a YW mom/daughter activity on makeup and hair. If anything it deterred me from wanting to wear makeup. I had such an urge to wipe that stuff off the pretty girl who was demonstrating makeup and see what she really looked like underneath. And what they do to hair around here is just horrific. Girls as young as 10 and 12 are already coloring, teasing, hairspraying to the point that all they will have left at age 20 is dried up, frizzed out string. I hate to think that our intense desire to look good to those around us would be the cause of all this uber focus on appearances. But my guess is that somewhere down the line, this is a quirky spin off from the deep felt desire to be and do all we can do attain the celestial kingdom. Just my theory.

I find this guy's attitude really selfish and immature. I'm not the only one apparently from the comments. I'm no Pollyanna. I hated the number's game as much as the next missionary. Still do. But to lie and fabricate false numbers I'm sure didn't help with the honest REAL missionary work. I'm sure he didn't get mych help from the Spirit. No wonder he wasn't very successful.

So Gwen, what do you suggest we actually say to our daughters about marriage, childbirth and motherhood? And how about our sons (and daughters if the case may be)? What do you think we should tell them about missions? Perhaps Sister Hinckley really did love childbirth. I know other women who do. I actually LOVED being pregnant (after the first few months) and would rather be pregnant than potty train a two year old. I'd rather hold a soft, sleepy sweet smelling newborn than wash teenagers stinky socks and underwear and argue with them about cell phone usage. BUT I'd rather argue with my teenager than not have any children at all. My babies were all pretty easy for the first several months. They were content and consolable. They didn't sleep perfectly but I managed to get enough sleep to stay alive. I was bone tired and in a fog a lot of the time but I just figured that came with the territory. Well, my daughter had her first chld and he was a horrible newborn. He had colic and would scream for hours at a time. I didn't have any personal experience that could have prepared my daughter for that. No one could. That's something you just have to learn by going through. She worried and cried and called me for help all the time. But he's now over that and he's a delightful 9 month old. And she's super baby hungry again already! The really tough, negative experience she had with childbirth (it was awful- I was there!) and the first 4-5 months of her child's life didn't turn her off. She's ready and willing to do it again. She was made stronger, (says me) by having that experience and learning from it. Who knows what the next experience will bring? A child with a handicap, a child that dies...every rotten thing is a possibility. I'm pretty sure most women know that. But there are relatively few that say, I wish I had never done this. It's pretty hard for me to imagine Sister Hinckley's daughter went into motherhood without having any idea it would be a challenge. But even after she found out how hard it was, I bet she still wouldn't give it up for the world. I just don't see the point in spilling all the dirt about the tough stuff in life for our kids. It might not turn out as dreadful for them as it has been for us. Or it might be worse (like my daughter's experience) Why scare and intimidate them? I don't equate "preparing" our children with casting a gloomy cloud over adult life. Do YOU really want to know ahead of time all the hardships that lie ahead. It should be enough for us to take on the advice to put our faith and trust in the Savior and prepare for life's ups and downs- then come what may.

Well I just don't know about all this. YES missions are hard. Of course they are. I went on one and it was the harderst thing I had done up to that point, especially because I was 23-25 and would much rather have been married annd having babies by then. Guess what? Motherhood is harder!! I disagree that there is a conspiracy of silence. What about all the talks in general conference that try to prop us up cause they know we are going through this life that is fraught with all kinds of difficulties. The talks are begging us to put our faith in Christ rather than the accolades of men. When we measure ourselves by numbers (the world) we're sure to fall short at some point. When we measure ourselves by celestial perfection, there is no doubt we'll come up short. But that's where Christ's atonement comes in. I think every family and every person deals with stress and disappointment differently. Generally I'm a bit of an Eeyore but I have a husband a some of my kids that are optimists by nature. Remarkably, my son who is on mission is usually an Eeyore, too. He's in Colorado where he goes weeks without an investigator to teach. And many of the ones they find toss him and his companion out after a lesson or two. It's just too wealthy and comfortable where he's working. He's gone through a dry spell since Christmas. I was so worried about him. Both my husband and I independently wrote him letters focused on trying to encourage him. He wrote back, "You and Dad both wrote super long letters this week to encourage me. I guess you sensed that I was down from my last letter or something... but don't worry, discouragement hasn't stopped me from working. I know that opposition + faith = miracles. And the miracles have been coming. In the last 3 days, we've received a lot of inspiration on what to do to improve our proselyting. " He has learned to look on the bright side and to apply faith and a positive attitude to hard times. If this kid can learn to be happy, anyone can!

I'm old! I vividly remember the two meetings on Sun, the sacrament being passed in both morning and afternoon meetings, my mom fixing our big Sunday meal in between the two meetings, coming out of the second meeting in the dark, eating a simple supper of soup after and going right to bed. I remember walking to the church after school for Primary (yes this was Utah), the boys throwing crabapples at the girls on the way, and the time I missed my turn to say the opening prayer in Primary opening exercises cause I had to stay after school for extra math help. I started to cry but my teacher wasn't a member of the church and had no idea what I was so upset about. We went to mutual from 7:30-9 on Wed. night. My two bits on a two hour meeting...it would be so welcome for parents of babies and toddlers!!! And after working in Primary sooooooo many years, I've often wondered who thought up the three hour plan in the first place. The little kids usually hit the wall after the second hour and it's totally unproductive time for teachers and kids alike, especially the 1-4 PM time slot. And I've heard there are 2-5 and 3-6 PM times for really crowded meeting houses. I can't even imagine how stressful that would be for young families. I would suggest keeping sacrament meeting the same (but maybe a tiny bit shorter) 45 min at most- sacrament, choir song and one speaker. Then alternating Sunday school/ Priesthood or Relief Society every other week. Or maybe even Sunday school every week except maybe the last week of the month where the men and women divide up. I love relief Society but today (the lesson on fasting) seemed to just drone on and on. All that needed to be said could have been wrapped up in about 10 min. Anyway, my guess is that it's just rumor- nothing of substance to it anyway.

I don't have much else to add but the thought came to me that you probably did a lot more good than you realize. You were sowing seeds. Some of those seeds may be really slow growers. You probably won't see the long term effects you had on people in this life. But I hope that the Lord allows us at some point to see the good that came of our time serving Him. I served a welfare mission 30 years ago. We hardly taught any discussions at all, but hopefully, some person we came in contact with will remember how much we loved them or loved the Lord. Hopefully someone will remember our example of service and or maybe just our smiles and it just might bring them around to accepting the gospel. For now, go to the temple as often as you can, diligently serve in a ward calling - go the extra mile. Keep up on your scripture study and good mission habits. Maybe you could even go on weekly splits with the local missionaries. But mostly, start a list of all the good things you can think of that happened in your mission. Rack you brains, pray about it, ask the Lord to help you see in a special way the good that came from those years of service. I'll bet you can come up with enough good stuff to change your mind about it being a waste of yours and the Lord's time. No service to the Lord, no matter how unsuccessful it may seem, is a waste. Best of luck on your re-entry into civilian life. Chin up! Look ahead with hope. The Lord loves you dearly and appreciates your service.

Ah oh. Do you need to be re-baptized?

Did you do the smocking? Precious!!

That's because you don't know me. At the point of posting the part you bolded, anticipating my dd's disappointment was on my mind. But that's not the whole me or the whole story. ( Unfortunately it's one of the inherant disadvantages of trying to communicate with total strangers on the internet.) During the lag between posts and in reading what others had to say and in unsuccessfully trying to find a decent dress for my daughter at the mall, my thoughts have changed about this tradition. Maybe it has some merit after all. Plus, I realized you were characterizing me different than I truely am. And now I know you misunderstood from the parts you bolded. I can see why you'd be confused. I do think it's entirely possible, and probably more likely than not, to feel some mommy guilt and sadness for the disappointed child while sticking to your principles. With this dress thing, I'm still trying to figure out what the principle is and if it's important. Sometimes I'm fairly dense and it takes awhile to get the big picture. So I ask others' opinions to get some perspective.

Your post gave me some insight. I might reconsider.

I beg to differ just a little. I admit I'm a bit of a pushover at times. Not on everything. We have fairly tight rules on many things and we don't spoil our kids. Christmas is a very moderate affair as are their birthdays. But in this case I'm pondering the value in the white dress. It actually might be a sweet thing to do as long as the dress is simple and not like a wedding or pageant dress. It's something we've never done before because it actually hadn't occured to me to do it. We've been out of the church trendy loop living in MN for the last decade. I did have the mother of a girl who was baptized the same day as my last daughter tell me she was thinking of making a white baptism dress. I honestly thought she meant a dress to get baptized in and my thought was, who wants to wear a dress that might float up in the water. I'd rather they just get baptized in the stake jumpsuit. So I didn't even give another thought. I can't remember now if that mother actually produced the white dress or not. My now 14 yr old can't remember either. So back to the value of this trend. I'm not such a stick in the mud that I can't look at someone else's idea and say, "That's neat. That could make the experience special for my daughter, too." And the more I think of it, perhaps getting a simple white dress might be better than buying something from the mall. (I was just there today looking and everything right now is really glitzy or makes the little girls look like a hooker. ) I almost think that would be more of a materialistic focus than just a nice white dress. Believe me, I can buck the system just as well as the next non-conformist mom. I'm sooooo not into Hannah Montana or all the dumb Disney shows on TV. My girls aren't either. We do blaze our own trail but don't mind picking up on a few cues from others along the way. My kids are most definitely leaders. Strong and successful! Push my "Proud Mom" button and I might just start bragging. ;-)

I have 5 daughters! All differenst sizes and shapes.

The problem is that DD isn't really aware of the tradition because it wasn't a big thing where we lived before. But I've seen every one of the 9 or 10 little girls in her soon to be Activity Day's group wear a white dress to church. They are obviously the after baptism dress. (Parents don't generally buy rowdy, bouncy little girls pure white dresses just to wear on any old Sunday.) I doubt DD will be aware of the tradition before her baptism next month but I don't want her to feel gypped either once she gets to know these girls in the ward better and finds out she didn't get a new white dress to put on after. Then we have another little girl coming up close on her heels. For sure they will both be appraised of the tradition by the time she gets baptized in 16 months. I always feel like a bad mom when I buck these traditions. (We don't do sleepovers either and I've taken endless flack for it.) Another thing my husband pointed out is that he doesn't want our kids identifying these sacred ordinances with all the things they'll get. He wants them to be focused on the spiritual blessings rather than the physical presents. My daughter is already asking her grandma to give her a blanket for her baptism since one of her friend's grandma gave her granddaughter a "comforter" to represent the gift of the Holy Ghost. I don't know. I'm still sitting on the fence on this one. But I'll probably side with my husband since our older daughters say they didn't miss having the white dress, and because I'm basically very practical by nature.

That's what I thought, too.

Very cool idea! I'll have to pass that on to my married daughter if she ever has a girl. Her dress is just hanging around in the closet- all $700 of it! Funny thing though. When her little boy was born we had to bless him when he was just 5 days old because all the grandparents had come into town for their graduations which coincided with his birth. Anyway, he was blessed in their married student apartment in a white onsie and wrapped in a white blanket. It was all very sweet and intimate with no big production. And he felt just as "blessed" as if he'd been in a little silk suit and tie in the chapel with an enormous party after.

Just wondering. This is a poll of sorts. If you have had your 8 yr old daughter baptized, did you purchase or make a white dress for her to put on after the baptism? This is a big tradition where I live now- just moved here a few months ago. It seems a bit contrived to me but I don't want my nearly 8 yr old daughter to feel badly if she is the only one who doesn't get one. I have three older daughters who didn't get a white dress. They all say they didn't miss it and don't think it's necessary. What do you all think?

Yes it does.

Well, you don't even take your body with you, so what's the point of a naked body sitting in an empty train station or wherever it was? I don't know if that part is in the movie. And despite what JK Rowling always thought, I never got the inclination that Dumbledore was gay. There wasn't anything that remotely gave that impression. And don't try to point out otherwise. I don't want to know.

So what's the point of a facebook community? Why not just go to a website directly? I feel like facebook communitites are a bit redundant. Plus I don't trust facebook much anymore after clicking on something that then sent spam to about 20 of my friends.

What were they trying to sell? I haven't heard specifically of any of these groups. I was a little confused by the letter, too.

Sorry to befuddle you all so. The word was turds. The reason I used that particular noun was because a friend called her own misbehaving kids turds on another forum I had been reading just before this one. I'm usually more refined than that but it's the word that was there on the tip of my brain. So the least I could do was censor it a bit. I actually like twits better. ;-)