Shade

i'm unsure of why the WoW is sometimes defended. it does not require members to defend it because there's nothing to defend. it's a commandment unto any who have covenanted to keep it. it is in no way a commandment that was delivered to the whole world on the front page of the new york times. conversely, people who DO, for example, consume alcoholic beverages have no reason to defend their position. it's their choice

"I acknowledge that I do not understand the processes of creation, but I accept the fact of it." i appreciate his kinda testimony

it's by far the best reason on earth to object to this legislation what you DO NOT BELIEVE holds just as much weight and is just as important as what I DO BELIEVE

EVERYONE has a religion. it comprises all those things we hold dear and/or sacred. it's how we live our lives. it's what drives us to wake up each morning and face another new day, hopeful of better things to come. please go ahead and look up any comprehensive definition or description of precisely what religion is for yourself. some of our religions stem from or are connected to churches: groups of people who share the same or similar beliefs and follow prescribed instructions on how to live their lives please don't pretend that members of a church have any less right to stand up for and fight for what they believe than do members of the local democratic party, or the local gay club each member of any ofthese groups has the absolute God-given right to fight for their rights do SSA's, either singularly or collectively, have the right to fight for legalisation of what they believe to be their right? hell, yeah. so why do Mormons not have the right to oppose what they believe to be a curse, either singularly or collectively?

gee, and to think that in south africa it has taken some critical late amendments to our constitution in order for "traditional" african marriages (the ONLY kind available in our impoverished rural areas, btw) to FINALLY be recognised by our courts... a marriage contract officiated in court by a duly authorised marriage officer costs money. more than many dirt poor south african people can afford. church ceremonies and traditional marriages are free. but it's probably different in other countries... anyway. most constitutions fall sadly short of the mark i do not agree with same-sex marriage. it's a contradiction in terms. in south africa, plural marriage is "allowed" if performed as a "traditional marriage". in fact many prominent members of our government have several wives. so the govt has little option but to allow/tolerate/embrace the concept and the practice. (kinda the same as our death penalty being abolished cos of all the criminals in govt... our ex-president Nelson Mandela was only recently removed from the US "known terrorist" list heehee ) now i can only imagine that if same-sex marriage were ever allowed in south africa, the govt would have little option but to recognise plural marriage officially. cos we have a constitution to protect our civil liberties, yanno? and since we cannot discriminate against / between men and women that would mean: that any man or woman would now be legally entitled to have as many husbands and/or wives as they choose. and each of those husbands and/or wives would be legally entitled to marry as many husbands and/or wives as they choose. and each of those husbands and/orwives would be legally entitled to marry as many husbands and/orwives as they choose. including any of the husbands and/or wives who may already be married to any of the men and/or women already mentioned above, or to any of those men and/or women's husbands and/or wives who may already be married elsewhere. wouldn't that be a whole lotta fun, huh? one big happy family! maybe we should recommend it to the first presidency for discussion???

i have it on good authority that the end of the world will be on 29th feb 2028…

i wish you peace, love and respect with this endeavour…

that's great! in fact, it's one of the things my fiancée (who is currently investigating the church) took a little while to get her head around — the missionaries positively ENCOURAGED HER TO QUESTION EVERYTHING SHE WAS TAUGHT BY THEM. but here's the thing… it was suggested that she trust in no mere mortal human being to confirm the truthfulness of all things. she was encouraged to seek confirmation ONLY from her Heavenly Father, in whom all truth may be found. Jer. 17: 5 5 Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.

my heart goes out to millions of poor people who are suffering under this tyrant i've met some in Johannesburg, South Africa, at church and one of the guys i met (name withheld) stayed with me for a couple of months while trying to get on his feet. the sad, sick and horrifying stories he told me about his homeland should really be told to the whole world. i'd love to know why the US hasn't invaded Zim yet????? oh, right… no oil…

oh, right, i see him now…

anyone seen my chicken?

wow, ok, that's interesting… what i'm hearing you say is that you DO believe in the Bible - and by this i infer that you believe that our HF teaches truth through prayer and revelation by the power of the Holy Spirit - but that what you have learned in the Bible is not enough? should i believe that your testimony of the Bible is based purely on physical evidence of its truthfulness? or am i misunderstanding your statement wrt the truthfulness of the Bible and its teachings? here's a beautiful letter from Paul to the Ephesians in which he speaks of revelation and faith. nowhere does he AT ALL refer to any physical evidence being a requirement for the Holy Spirit of revelation to be able to perform His task… THE EPISTLE OF PAUL THE APOSTLE TO THE EPHESIANS CHAPTER 3 1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: 7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. 8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: 12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. 13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory. 14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. 20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen. how do you interpret this letter of counsel from the apostle Paul?

haha, sorry, i was just being sarcastic our private hospitals are among the top hospitals in the world and our medical practitioners are highly sought after worldwide, from doctors to nurses to paramedics. but there is a catch: only the wealthy can afford such health care. this is, after all, the home of the late Dr. Chris Barnard, the surgeon who laid the foundation for transplant surgery and who performed the first heart transplant in the world. so we've got some pretty HOT medical staff but in any case, most of the best medical practitioners leave our country to seek gainful employment elsewhere in the world. there is a severe shortage of qualified medical staff in the public sector and little or no support from the government our public health care system is shocking, even disgusting. lack of funds, staff shortages, no medical supplies, inadequate training in many cases, the list of problems is very long. going into a public (or "government") hospital, you're gonna get quite a shock. sick and injured patients lying about unattended; blood-splattered walls and floors in surgeries, hospital rooms and corridors; dressings, bandages, needles and other contaminated materials are often not disposed of or stored away properly. as i say, shocking, even disgusting. i would absolutely LOVE to see one of our politicians ending up in one of our hospitals. in fact our minister of health recently needed to go into surgery for a liver transplant and refused to go to one of the government hospitals. she went to an exclusive private hospital. she also (only "allegedly" of course) has a bit of a drinking problems which caused quite a controversy, seeing as she bumped herself to the top of a long list of patients awaiting much-needed liver transplants. this is the same mad woman (our minister of health!!!!!! GAH!!!) who claimed that AIDS may be combatted by a diet of beetroot and garlic. so, through teeth clenched in agonised frustration, i repeat… hi! i'm from South Africa. that's a little country right at the southernmost tip of Africa. we used to be in the news quite a lot once upon a time. Africa is quite a rough place. definitely not for sissies… just one question: what is health care?

thanks for the ideas!

hi! i'm from South Africa. that's a little country right at the southernmost tip of Africa. we used to be in the news quite a lot once upon a time. Africa is quite a rough place. definitely not for sissies… just one question: what is health care?

hang on… i'm from south africa and maybe things simply work a little differently in my country???? but this tuesday just past, my home teacher told me about his own son's marriage: it involved meeting in the bishop's office, signing the legal civil marriage documents (or marriage register as it is called here), then going off to the temple and being married in the temple and then a separate ordinance which involved actually being sealed to one another. or at least this was the way i understood what he explained. i've never been to a temple marriage, so perhaps i misunderstood what he explained. but one thing was quite clear: there are TWO very separate marriages involved. one civil, the other eternal

hey DS. i had the same approach to figuring out how to overcome some serious problems i had in my life some years ago. ultimately i discovered that i did not really need to understand my problem in order to overcome it. a dash of humility, a pinch of open-mindedness and an ounce or so of willingness made the difference. before undergoing any form of surgery, i prefer my surgeon to explain to the best of his ability and to the best of my ability i try to understand, the procedure he is about to perform. but i'd be kidding myself i claimed to really make any sense whatsoever of the complicated medical procedures. similarly, i have only a fundamental understanding of the operation of the mechanics and electrics inside my motor car and my motor cycle. yet i trust they will take me safely home each day. i know little, if anything of the laws which govern aerodynamics, yet i travel occasionally in aircraft. hell, i even ride roller coasters and yet have no understanding of the complex hydraulic systems involved. evolutionary evidence is exactly that. it is evidence. it is not proof. scientists often claim to have discovered truths about our universe, yet the current scientific models are in and of themselves continually evolving. each day new evidence is uncovered. and yet this is easier to "make sense" of?

hey all been some time since i've written anything here. i was inactive for around 16 years or so and last year made a commitment to get my act together and get the spiritual aspects my life sorted out. this has included introducing my fianceé and 2 children (son of 9, daughter of 3) to the gospel. we'll be marrying middle of April, and once we're no longer "living in sin", she can begin to counsel with the bishop regarding what she needs to do in order to be baptised. but in the meantime, we've been attending sacrament meetings quite regularly, holding family home evenings, having the missionaries around twice a week, reading the scriptures together each day as a family, having family prayers (our goal is every day, twice a day) and we're doing any of it perfectly, yet. it's still tough to break the old cycles of NOT doing all these things — but i'm not beating myself up about my shortcomings for the moment. rather we are doing our best to do our best. my son has many questions about the gospel. there's so much that i was taught by his age which he is very curious about. he wants to know when he can be baptised (something we'll be talking to the bishop about real soon). he wants to know about prayer. he wants to know about what heaven is like. the degrees of glory. eternal life. how our Heavenly father blesses us, literally HOW??? you can just imagine, a kid that age — FULL of questions... i guess i took being raised in the church for granted. there is so much which i was taught without even realising it as i grew up at home. ok, my question then, or rather, the advice i seek is this: i know that my son will learn in primary lessons and in sunday school, but i also know that it is one of my own sacred duties to teach my children the gospel of Christ. any ideas or resources you can recommend on teaching the gospel to my children?

ok, so i'm being lazy here & pasting something i just posted in a another thread. cos it refers to the nature of the "imperfect man"... from Mormon chapter 9 11 But behold, I will show unto you a God of miracles, even the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; and it is that same God who created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are. 12 Behold, he created Adam, and by Adam came the fall of man. And because of the fall of man came Jesus Christ, even the Father and the Son; and because of Jesus Christ came the redemption of man. 13 And because of the redemption of man, which came by Jesus Christ, they are brought back into the presence of the Lord; yea, this is wherein all men are redeemed, because the death of Christ bringeth to pass the resurrection, which bringeth to pass a redemption from an endless sleep, from which sleep all men shall be awakened by the power of God when the trump shall sound; and they shall come forth, both small and great, and all shall stand before his bar, being redeemed and loosed from this eternal band of death, which death is a temporal death. if i'm reading this correctly, HF created Adam and then allowed him to make a mistake, which allowed the Earth to become populated, which allowed our Saviour to be born, and as Adam will be judged for his sins, so shall we all be judged. which is kinda the whole point of our existence ont his Earth, right? so where would we be if HF did not allow our leaders to make mistakes? *edit* oooh-oooh-oooh... and then there is THISline, too... Moroni & his dad also had their shortcomings... 31 Condemn me not because of mine imperfection, neither my father, because of his imperfection, neither them who have written before him; but rather give thanks unto God that he hath made manifest unto you our imperfections, that ye may learn to be more wise than we have been.

of the rest of the chapter, i quite like the next couple of verses: 11-13 11 But behold, I will show unto you a God of miracles, even the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; and it is that same God who created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are. 12 Behold, he created Adam, and by Adam came the fall of man. And because of the fall of man came Jesus Christ, even the Father and the Son; and because of Jesus Christ came the redemption of man. 13 And because of the redemption of man, which came by Jesus Christ, they are brought back into the presence of the Lord; yea, this is wherein all men are redeemed, because the death of Christ bringeth to pass the resurrection, which bringeth to pass a redemption from an endless sleep, from which sleep all men shall be awakened by the power of God when the trump shall sound; and they shall come forth, both small and great, and all shall stand before his bar, being redeemed and loosed from this eternal band of death, which death is a temporal death. if i'm reading this correctly, HF created Adam and then allowed him to make a mistake, which allowed the Earth to become populated, which allowed our Saviour to be born, and as Adam will be judged for his sins, so shall we all be judged. which is kinda the whole point of our existence ont his Earth, right? so where would we be if HF did not allow our leaders to make mistakes? *edit* oooh-oooh-oooh... and then there is THISline, too... Moroni & his dad also had their shortcomings... 31 Condemn me not because of mine imperfection, neither my father, because of his imperfection, neither them who have written before him; but rather give thanks unto God that he hath made manifest unto you our imperfections, that ye may learn to be more wise than we have been.

i'm gonna highlight "L" & mail it to my CEO!!!

*phew*

hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha oh, man. that happens to me all the time!!!

someone was speaking about this on Sunday, just past. i've never read the entire BOM. i wanna do it really soon. would it seem a little odd for it to be my new "bathroom book" for a few weeks until i complete it?

i've seen quite a couple of scriptural references which appear to confirm that the prophets and the priesthood are an essential part of the church established by Jesus Christ. does anyone have any scriptural references which appear to confirm that such keys and ordinances are NOT necessary? or in other words, that Christ's keys of power are NOT necessary to run His church?