Leah

This. Perhaps you are receiving this particular calling in an effort to disabuse you of the notion that some callings are "beneath" you.

My previous calling was to be on this committee, so that is where my viewpoint is coming from (mostly). I am not sure that an activity that is geared towards the benefit of specific individuals is the intention of the monthly (at least, they were monthly when I held the calling) RS activity. I am not sure how to phrase that so that it comes across clearly. Traditionally, baby showers are thrown to help the mother with things needed for the baby, so gifts are expected. How would you handle this with 18 babies/mothers? Even a much smaller number would be problematic. Are you not expecting that gifts would be given? If you are, how would that be handled? Would you assign gift-giving to the attendees to make sure everything evens out? What if you don't get enough attendees? The white elephant give exchange puzzles me. White elephants are usually fun/silly gifts, often not useful gifts. Who would be participating in this exchange? The new moms? They would be coming to a shower where they are one of the guests of honor but then would have to contribute a gift? Or is the exchange amongst the guests as well, and what would the purpose of that be? I go to showers intending to give a gift, not receive one. I can see wanting to do something for the expectant moms in your ward, but it can be delicate terrain to make baby showers an official RS activity. You would have to be sure to do it for everyone and avoid favoritism. Perhaps some wards do this successfully...I don't know. Also, I remember directives that RS activities not have activities where costs to the participants were involved (although it seemed to be ignored all the time....craft activities that had a charge for the supplies, for example) as that would bar some women from being able to participate. With a shower you are probably going to ask everyone to contribute food, and now there would also be the expense of a gift...or gifts. In my last ward, we threw a shower for a first-time mom who had no family in the area, but it was not an official activity and was simply organized and attended by those who saw the need and responded. But I can see in a ward where there are lots of women in that situation, that things would be more difficult. While I haven't been a ward that made showers a RS activity, the last ward I was in did have a tradition of gifting each new baby in the ward with a handmade quilt. Every baby got one. I thought it was a wonderful way of honoring each new baby, and the quilt became a keepsake for each, as well. I would say consult with the Relief Society President as to whether or not a shower could be one of the official activities. She will either know the answer or know where up the chain to find the answer. I would say that the regular, "official" RS activity should not be one that it is a gift-giving occasion for specific individuals. Having a group shower given by members of the ward of their own volition would be more appropriate.

It was actually a typo. I meant to write "non-family". As I am sure the rest of my post indicates, I did comprehend that he is a convert with no family members in the church, and objects to having any one who is not a family member in the circle, and wanting only himself and no one else involved in the blessing because of that.

I've only been a member since 2011, but I have never seen a baby blessing with only the father and baby. I am wondering why you are so adamant about having not having non-family members as part of the circle. Did you have a similar attitude when you were confirmed after your baptism? No circle allowed? I am past the having baby years so won't ever have the baby blessing experience, but if I did, I would feel very blessed to have to have my bishop, home teachers, etc., be part of the circle, just as it was with my confirmation. The Spirit that emanates from that circle is powerful. Even when there are family members in the circle, there are often non-family members as well. I've never seen one without the bishop, and usually the home teachers, too. As a convert and having no priesthood-holders in the family, were I in that situation, I would be nothing but grateful for the ability to have my ward family stand in the circle. So, again, I am curious as to why the objection to having non-family members in the circle. Edited to fix the typo in the first paragraph so Pam can relax.

I couldn't watch it all the way through. There are simply no words to express how disturbing this is. Pro-abortion like to pretend that what a woman is carrying is not a baby, it's not a "life". And now we are calling it "tissue" to again obscure the reality of what is actually happening. So when it's expedient to one's agenda, it's somehow not a human being in any way, but then magically becomes human again when you can make a profit off of selling the "tissue"? They try (and I've read comments elsewhere) to make it sound like there is no profit involved. Seriously? No one is interested in profit-making in medicine or research? It's all done for altruistic reasons and the astronomical costs of medical care and drugs have nothing to do with someone making a profit? If I had been the one doing the interviewing, I would have been hard-pressed not to reach across the table and strangle that woman. The women are "happy" to donate the tissue because they feel they are doing something good? She's got her slick PR/PC spiel down pat and it's all very calculated. I can just imagine the line of BS they feed to the women undergoing the abortions. As I stated, I cannot really find the words to describe how much this video disturbed me. And I am not buying into the "this is just standard practice in the medical field and we're just compensating for the costs incurred for transportation, etc." line of malarkey. I've had organs removed during surgery and have signed releases for the disposition of the "tissue" (when my husband had his leg amputated, we were told the leg would first go to the lab, then would basically be cremated) but there just seems to be something so....sinister.....about this. It just left me with a really, really bad feeling.

I joined the church in 2011. I have encountered members here in Oregon who act as though drinking soda (we called it 'pop' where I grew up in the midwest) is a major sin and aren't at all shy about expressing their viewpoint. And if your soda happens to be a Coke or a Pepsi.....off to Outer Darkness you go! I even had a woman tell me - after seeing me drink a Coke - that I would "never" pass my Temple Recommend interviews because of that. She, of course, was wrong. This particular woman had a number of....interesting...interpretations of things, including tithing. She stated quite emphatically that if any member says they tithe 10%,they are just flat-out lying. Kind of made me wonder what she tells the bishop during tithing settlement. All of the above-referenced people certainly consumed their fair of sugar in other forms and weren't the stereotypical Oregonian health-food fanatics in any way, so I never understood their soda-shaming ways.

I have to say it. Your post bothered me. It came across as - I'm a far superior teacher than anyone else and if you all would be like me, classes wouldn't be so danged useless and boring. We get it. You're a college prof. You bring that experience to your calling. But you aren't teaching a college class on Sundays. Scholarship and an impressive CV aren't the most important qualifications. They aren't even on the list. Humility is. Being in tune with the Spirit is. The desire to magnify one's calling is. And knowledge of the scriptures that you seem to find irrelevant and boring is. Do you think "Spirit led teaching" is really something only you know about and you do? I see it all the time in my ward. People have been led by the Spirit in their callings for longer than you or I have been alive. It's not some new-fangled teaching method. Our current Gospel Doctrine teacher is not a natural-born teacher. And he will be the first to tell you that. But it is obvious that he is led by the Spirit as he teaches. And people tune into that and are in tune with the Spirit themselves. That is what makes the class great. It's not about turning it into some scholarly college class experience. Yes, we do study the same scriptures and history over and over again. Why is that a bad thing, worthy of your disdain? I was an Orthodox Jew. We studied the Torah our entire lives, and there's a whole lot less scripture there! But you can study the Torah or any scriptures for your entire life, and still not plumb the depths of it. There is ALWAYS more to learn. Always. But it requires an open heart and mind and humility. I admire - and am jealous of - those who grew up in the church and have had the opportunity to learn these lessons over and over again. I am awe of teachers who can - just off the top of their head - reference scripture time and time again when discussing a subject. Any subject. I am awe of the bishop and my home teachers and just plain old friends in the church who have all that scripture and history right there in their brains and in the middle of any discussion about anything - can talk about a relevant passage or story in the scriptures. We have those lessons over and over again because it is important. Just the other week in Gospel Doctrine class, we all were marveling over the fact that you can read the same bit of scripture dozens of times....hundreds of times....and still have that moment when something new jumps out at you. Back to our Gospel Doctrine teacher. Shortly after he was called, he was diagnosed with cancer. He has spent the last year undergoing chemo and radiation and fighting hard to beat this disease. You can see the ravages in his physical appearance. The cancer affected his voice, so he can be very hard to hear in class sometimes. And, as I stated previously, he is not a natural-born teacher. But we were all incredibly moved when he bore his testimony last week and shared the fact that he is now cancer-free. He talked of how having cancer has not caused him to waiver in his faith, it has only served to strengthen his testimony. He spoke of the joy his calling brought him and how much he has learned from it. He had shared with us previously how he prepared diligently for his lesson each week, even the weeks he knew the effects of the cancer treatment would make him too sick to teach. His preparation might not meet your scholarly standards. He might not address the political and social issues you deem necessary to address in class. But he brings to class what the Spirit prompts HIM to bring to class. One of his promptings was to change the configuration of the class. Instead of the usual rows of chairs, he rearranged the chairs into a circle. He talked about how he wasn't there to give a lecture. That we were all there to learn together and he was simply helping to facilitate that. He felt that all of us being part of the same circle was more conducive/reflective of that, rather than his standing behind a lectern in front of anyone. Perhaps not a scholarly experience, but definitely sprit-led. One of our favorite teachers in RS is a young woman. Married. A nurse by profession. Two boys under the age of five. The Spirit she brings with her every time she teaches is obvious. I know that some people think she's the "perfect Mormon woman" with the "perfect Mormon life". But sit in on her lessons and you will learn of the trials she has been through. Searching for the truth on her own as a teenager. Battling cancer at a young age. Being told children would probably never happen because of it. A divorce. She teaches of out of the strength of her testimony. She prepares her lessons while juggling all of the demands mentioned previously. She recently was asked to give a talk in Sacrament meeting on the same day she was scheduled to teach in RS. She doesn't have impressive (to some) credentials that "qualify" her for teaching. That wasn't important. That wasn't what led the Spirit to make the promptings that led to her being called as a teacher. Whenever she teaches a lesson or gives a talk, there are always people that approach her afterward to share with her the impact that her talk or her lesson made on them. And it's not usually because they learned some new scholarly or historical fact (although that happens as well). It is because they were touched by the Spirit and learned something that Heavenly Father knew they needed to learn. I am sure you are a fabulous teacher. I am sure you are the kind of teacher that I loved to have in school at whatever level - those who are gifted such that it is easy to learn from them. But I would hate to teach a class that you were in, knowing that no matter what, I am going to fall short in your eyes because I don't have the same CV, because I don't teach in the way you think is the only way to teach, because I will be teaching a lesson you've heard before and we never, ever need to repeat lessons, do we? Yeah, it would be hard to teach someone who has pre-determined there is nothing to learn from this inferior teacher, that there is nothing new for the Spirit to whisper to them from a lesson they've heard before.

Fireworks went off here until after 1:00 a.m. And since Oregonians love their illegal fireworks, we are talking LOUD, fly all over the place fireworks. You expect the noise, but yeah, it would be nice if people were respectful about the time. Again, Oregonians are all about their illegal (we are talking about a serious level of stupidity with some people's choices) fireworks, but this year the amount and the noise level seemed even greater than usual. And this was with extremely dry conditions and high fire danger! Since pot just became legal here and people were lined up by the thousands to get their free pot (I haven't followed closely and don't really understand how it works, but you can't yet legally buy it, so it's being given away for free. So if you combine free and pot...well, it is Oregon!) so I have this certain visual in my head regarding the excessive fireworks this year..... The heightened level wasn't just my imagination, either. They had a special hot-line this year to report illegal fireworks, so that people wouldn't use 911 or overwhelm the non-emergency police lines. But the line was overwhelmed and there was at least an hour wait for any kind of response. People also seem to be unaware of the effect that the noise can have on vets with PTSD.

I was baptized in 2011 and didn't have to bring towels, they were provided and there were plenty of them. If you haven't already asked, someone can you let you know whether or not you need to bring towels. Don't worry about see-through. That's one reason why the jumpsuits are provided, to ensure modesty. And, yes, don't forget a second set of underwear. People have been known to forget that their underwear is going to get wet. My baptism got delayed a few minutes because one of the missionaries forget to bring a set of garments and had to run back to the apartment. (I have MS, so both of the missionaries who taught me the lessons were in the font, just in case. One stood behind me, but I came back up out of the water just fine). I had a couple of friends from the ward who helped me in the changing room, fetching the right size jumpsuit, towels, etc. I found it very helpful. Especially when - right after I had shed the wet jumpsuit - one of the sisters stuck her head in the changing room and said we had to do it over. A word had been missed or said not quite right. One of the brethren noticed it, they all conferred and agreed. Getting a second jumpsuit on when still dripping wet and with wet underwear was a challenge! But when all was said and done, it just made one of the best days of my life even more memorable! :) I was very nervous at times about the baptism, simply because of my fear of water. But, for me, there is something so powerful about the sheer physicality of the ordinance - the going down into the water and coming back out - that is indescribably beautiful. Beefche's advice about recording your feelings is spot-on. Congratulations! It's going to be an awesome day!

One of my favorite photos of my daughter is from when she was about 11 years old, her first time driving a 'vehicle' - our trusty Wheel Horse lawn tractor. She was a natural. And our beloved German Shepherd following close by her side because he was never sure that any of us should be on that thing.

Sounds like my 4th. It is DRY here. All sorts of fire warnings and restrictions. But I was up until at least 2:00 a.m. just in case I had to run for my life if the moronic new neighbors managed to set my roof or yard on fire with their illegal fireworks. I'll look the other way on your illegal fireworks - maybe even enjoy them from afar - but when you are setting them off over my house and property and not your own, and I am going to be the one to lose my life or my home and possessions, and not you, due to your carelessness and inconsideration.....I am not thinking kind thoughts about you. And knowing how things are here, I will probably have to do the same tonight.

Not read in my ward in the meetings I attended - Sacrament meeting (yes, I know the intention was for it not to be read in Sacrament meeting), Gospel Doctrine and Relief Society, nor any mention made of it anywhere today that I could tell. I was desperately hoping they would cut the Relief Society lesson - probably the least-inclusive lesson ever - short and read it there. T

Huh. I thought most activities were in the evening, when a lot - if not most - husbands are home. I never hear of the men asking/worrying/wondering who is going to watch the kids if they attend a meeting or activity. It seems like women are always expected to figure out the childcare thing if they want to do something...men...not so much. Women work, men are single, female soldiers are deployed, etc. Are there NO men around? Surely there are some dads and/or young men around who could step up and take the child-care burden off the women for a couple of hours.

Are the husbands/fathers not capable of watching their own children for a few hours, so that their wives might participate in a church activity?

This news made me very sad even though I know mortal death is not the end of the journey. I think it has a lot to do with losing two apostles so close together and the fact that I have been a member only a few years, so these are the only apostles I have known.

I often can't help but think that every member of the church should spend a (Jewish) Sabbath with an Orthodox Jewish family. I think having come from that, gave me a perspective on honoring the Sabbath day and keeping it holy that most people don't have. Not that we would need to take on everything....no driving...no turning lights on and off, etc.....but I think the focus on the Sabbath and the whole mind-set would be really eye-opening and helpful. As an Orthodox Jew, everything - and I do mean everything - you did was focused on keeping the Sabbath. Shomer Shabbat. You really did step away from the world for 25 hours. When I first moved into my current ward, the bishop took some time to get to know me. We all know you should be careful what you share with the bishop, right? One time, we talked about keeping the Sabbath and he had lots of questions regarding what my customs had been. He then declared that he thought it would be great if I could give a lesson on keeping the Sabbath. I think he forgot about it, but one of his councilors recently mentioned it. Yikes. I think if I mention that endless meetings were not part of the tradition (you do not discuss/make plans on the Sabbath for anything that occurs after the Sabbath), that might be a popular idea with some. And for those that grumble about the three-hour block - they might have a different perspective after learning that Jews have an obligation to pray three times a day and the Sabbath (and therefore the observance thereof) spans a 25 hour period of sunset to sunset. So you start Friday night with maariv (the third prayer service of the day, and on Shabbat this is followed by a festive meal. Best meals ever), continue Saturday morning with Shacharit - which in itself is usually about three hours long -, followed by mincha in the afternoon- the mid-day prayers (and in my synagogue and many others), this was preceeded by a kiddush lunch - which was a marvelous opportunity to socialize amd feel like family -, with maariv again at the close of the day. Shabbat would then be officially ended with a ritual/blessing called Havdalah. Between mincha in the early afternoon and maariv at the end of the day, there would be various activities happening, but the focus was always on Shabbat. Since driving is forbidden on Shabbat, everyone lives within walking distance of the shul (synagogue). So there would be lots of interaction between families/members during that time. Before my conversion, the shul (very old building that had its issues, but was very beloved for it's quirkiness at the same time) was near a small park, so often in the nice weather, families would stop there to let the children work off some of their excess energy. Then people would wander off either to their own home for a Shabbos nap (a time-honored tradition with no shame whatsoever!) or to attend to the needs of babies and young children, or go to another home in the neighborhood. Yes, some socializing would go on, but there was always, always Torah study going on by everyone for a good chunk of the afternoon. Some of it would be somewhat structured - I remember we had a women's group who studied Pirke Avot during the appropriate time of the year, and there might be groups of men who were wrestling with a particular portion of the Torah together - but most of it was informal and spontaneous, a natural outgrowth of that week's midrash or a question brought up by someone. But always, always everyone studied Torah in those hours. All of those things, combined with the complete and absolute absence of telephones, TV watching, etc. combined for the best, most amazing day of the week. I remember a woman once - who grew up in the liberal end of Judaism (which, to me, has become so far removed from traditional Judaism as to be unrecognizable) - telling the rabbi that she couldn't possibly be Shomer Shabbos (Sabbath observant) because then when would she get the laundry and the housework done? She just didn't have "time" to observe the Sabbath. The rabbi assured her that if she honored those 25 hours, she would find that she did indeed still have time to do everything else. That would be part of the blessings received. So this woman gradually increased her Sabbath observance. Some time later, she joyfully told the rabbi that she was now Shomer Shabbos and that the strangest thing happened - she had no trouble getting the housework and other "have-tos" done on the other six days of the week! One thing I forgot to mention....Shabbat is always ushered in by the lighting of the candles. This occurs prior to sunset (no kindling of a fire once Shabbat has begun) and is always done by the women (unless there is no woman in a household). Usually two candles are lit (although you can light more) and it is customary to have candlesticks that are used only for Shabbat. The bracha (blessing) is said and Shabbat has officially begun. I really miss the candle-lighting. I miss that special moment of transition between the rest of the week and Shabbat. The house has been cleaned, the food prepared (no cooking on Shabbat), TV is off, phones are off. Then you light the candles, say the bracha and you can feel the peace descending.

What she said. I know you think you know what this person was thinking based on your past friendship with her, but I think it is far more likely that you were projecting your own feelings into this hug and saw what you wanted to see, not necessarily what she was thinking/feeling. All of the advice to stop this right now and not say a word to this woman or your respective spouses is spot on. Your wife is the one you owe your allegiance to, not this friend. It doesn't matter how long the friendship has been, or what you went through together. Our lives change. Our lives move forward, not backward. Sometimes even the best of friends are in our lives for a season, not a lifetime. The fact that you are more concerned for your friend's feelings that you are for your wife and your marriage are just further evidence that this friendship has become inappropriate (at least on your part) and the only right thing to do would be to cut off all contact with this woman. You owe it to the other guy, too. No matter what her feelings might or might not be, you also have no business inserting yourself into their marriage simply because you refuse to control your own feelings. I don't know any husbands who would be okay with some guy wanting to be around his wife because that guy still harbors romantic feelings and hopes. Cut her out of your life and start working on being a real husband.

This sounds exactly like the co-worker who is making my job a living hell. Except for the highly intelligent part. No one would ever describe her that way. But the rest...wow...describes her exactly.

I am sure you will be dismissive of my response because I'm not a guy, but I just have to say.... Uptight? Really? I don't see anything in his post that would indicate anything of the sort. Why drag anti-Mormons into this? What have they got to do with this topic? Your comments make it look like that's what you think he is, when he is not. Did you miss the part about what the subject of the class was? They were having a lesson on the Holy Ghost yet there were no references to the Holy Ghost during the class. Much different situation than the example you dragged in out of left field. I, too, would be confused if I attended a class wherein the topic was X, but X was never mentioned during the class. Just doesn't make any sense. As for the things actually talked about during the meeting.....tools, Father's Day gifts and everything but the actual topic of the class...I have to say I have never had an experience like that in any Relief Society meeting I have attended, nor any other class I have attended at church. The OP's confusion/concern seems like a completely normal reaction, nothing "uptight" or "anti" about it.

I don't see anything wrong with children/grandchildren expressing their opinions in this situation. I am confident - from having read your posts over the years - that it would be done in respectful, loving manner. And that's exactly why you are doing it - out of love. I frankly felt a little sad reading your post. I know that men tend to wrap their whole identity up in their careers, but I can't say that I really understand that. So I know that there are men who do feel lost without a job. But - especially if they are financially able to do so - I wish they would step back and take a look at the bigger picture, the impact it has on the family. In today's world, I also wonder what happened to the concept of working hard now so that you can have those later years with the family (not that family isn't important in those younger years, but I think you know what I mean)? If you don't need to, why work until the day you drop dead? What exactly has been accomplished? The situation you described is compounded by the fact that he is away from family for long periods of time. So they don't even get to see him on a daily basis. I find that very sad. His family is missing out on the joy of spending time with him, and he is missing out on the same. Then there is his health. If it's already a little shaky....is he really okay with the idea of possibly dropping dead some day, far away from his family and not having seen them for a while? I heard some kind of quote years ago about no man ever lay on his deathbed and wished he'd spent more time at work instead of with his family. One of my co-workers retired just before Christmas. She hadn't planned on retiring just yet, but in a few more years. Her husband abandoned the family long ago and so she has always been the primary parent and breadwinner. Her children and grandchildren sat her down last fall and expressed their concerns. She'd worked hard all of her life to provide for her family. Her family was always her first priority, she always put their needs ahead of her own. They expressed their concern for her health (she'd had major injuries from a car accident that took a permanent toll and developed some health issues as she got older). They expressed their love for her, their deep appreciation for all of the sacrifices she had made over the decades, and their desire to see her have time to enjoy life and time to do something other than work all of the time. And in this case, they backed up their words with putting together their own resources to make it financially feasible for her to retire now, rather than later. So they expressed their thoughts and their love (and offered solutions if wanted/needed) and then let her be to make her won decision. And even as much as the place we work has become a nightmare to work at and work had become a nightmare for the first time in her 40 something years of working, she still struggled a little with the decision to retire early. What made the difference for her was - not surprisingly - the needs of her family. It wasn't her feeling that they needed her, it was them saying Mom...Grandma....we need more time with you while it is still possible. She did it more for them than for herself. I have seen her since she retired and I have never seen her as joyful in the years I have known her as she is now. I know I'm a girl and don't get the guy's point of view but, boy, if I could afford to retire and be able to spend more time with family and on things like callings and helping people...I'd be out the door in a flash. So, yeah, I personally think that it's okay for the kids and grandkids to lovingly and respectfully voice their opinion. He is ultimately going to make his own decision either way, but you never know what kind of impact you may have. He may come to appreciate it just as my co-worker did.

I think you are out of line. This is not your child. She is a minor. Your statement "We do want to make sure she is growing". Seriously? Aside from the fact that the word "growing" is vague and highly subjective, it is none of your business. Neither you nor anyone else in your church get to make any judgment on a minor child's "growth" that is not your child. You can apply your definition of "growth" to yourself or anyone in your family, but you do not get to judge the "growth" of someone else's minor child nor do you have any right to "make sure she is growing". We get it. You think anyone who doesn't believe exactly as you do is "wrong". But that does not mean that you get to interfere with how another family raises their child in the faith that they practice. Even if that child visits your church and seems to express an interest. You don't get to "make sure she is growing". You don't get to sneak around behind her parents' back and express your desire directly to this child, either. And as JAG pointed out, neither you nor anyone in your church is the judge of this child's status with God or whether or not she is "saved". Surely you know who the true judge is. And as JAG also pointed out, her interest may be genuine or it may be going along with a friend/the crowd, her interest might be different than how you choose to interpret, it may be a momentary fancy, it may be a momentary rebellion. All normal teenage actions. If you truly believe in the 10 commandments and that this minor child should honor her parents, then you will doing nothing to disrespect that. You will leave the girl alone. You won't try to make her believe that she is not "saved" or is going to hell or any such nonsense. You won't try to pressure her parents. You won't try to paint them as bad parents standing in the way of their child being "saved". It is up to her parents - not you - whether or not she gets to explore this new-found interest further at this point or not. If they say no, you must respect that. Yes, I would say all of the above no matter which religions were involved, on either side.

....or saying "Love won today". The White House was lit up in rainbow colors afterwards. SMH

I loved the performance. At first I was thinking....whoa...why THAT song? It's not really going to showcase his powerful voice. But it was so entertaining, joyful and energetic. I was really curious to hear the judges' response. I was so happy that they all REALLY liked the performance. But I am a total dork. When I first read that he was going to be on the show, I was thinking...guest artist, right? Because I'm thinking everyone has heard of Alex, right? Like I said, I am a dork. Whether he wins the whole shebang or not, I am hoping that this opportunity helps bring his musical career to the next level. So that he can do what he loves and so that more people have the opportunity to enjoy his music, his story and his testimony.

Thanks for the heads-up. I am in Oregon so it hasn't aired here yet. Love Alex Boye!

Translation: You don't agree with my personal interpretation of all things as I imagine them in my head, so I am going to have a hissy fit and hurl insults rather than be an adult and engage in meaningful discussion, 'cuz that ain't what I'm here for.