Leah

You weren't baiting anyone, so please do not worry about that. Anyone who is reading/responding to this thread is doing so out of their own choice and is not being baited or 'tricked' into reading it, much less responding to it. There will always be those who blame others for their every woe. I appreciate you sharing your perspective...which I agree with.

Just because there are those who choose not to march in gay pride parades, does not mean they 'love their neighbor' one iota less than those who do march. That's not a judgment we can make.

But the whole point of gay pride parades is to celebrate the gay 'lifestyle'. The whole point of such parades is to say that there is absolutely no difference between homosexuality (and homosexual sex) and heterosexuality. There is no way one can march in such a parade and not be perceived as putting their stamp of approval on gay sex. No one who sees someone marching in the parade is going to make a distinction between your intention and the intention of the parade.

Hmmmm....so a Mormon like myself can't "judge" LDS values?

But I never made it about politics. My interest was that I know people in authority who would have actually ability to help women who are being mistreated. It had nothing to do with politics.

Hala, why would I accept an apology from someone who insults me in the same breath she purports to apologize? Clearly, such an apology is not sincere.

Your obsession with that statistic is completely irrelevant to the situation. Your bigotry against Jews is not reflective of LDS values or teachings.

Oh, please. I distorted no one's words. No one said you hate Muslims. Indeed, it comes across as the exact opposite. Your main topic of conversation in your posts/threads is Islam, you want to continue to wear your hijab, your posts are peppered with Muslim lingo (for lack of a better description)....I would guess that people who don't know you would think you were Muslim and never have an idea that you're Mormon. How you think anyone would think you hate Muslims is baffling. You clearly do not understand the concept of the "Chosen People" and prefer to listen to propaganda, but that is not what this discussion is about. Your objection to rabbis and imams working together to stop any kind of violence is truly perplexing. Shouldn't we ALL be working together to help those in need? Whether you want to believe it or not, here in Portland, rabbis and imams have a long history of working together to help EVERYONE. Perhaps you are unaware of this because you haven't been here long, but it is fact. Are you against the stopping of violence? Or the idea of Muslims and Jews working together? Or of Jews working with anyone? Do you feel that it is better for women to continue to be beaten rather than to be helped by Jews? Your objection to people of different faiths working together to help those in need is truly baffling.

Your bigotry is apparent. Please take it elsewhere.

You are implying that I don't believe her because she is a former Muslim. Why would that be relevant? The statements made left the impression that beating women is commonplace in the Portland Muslim community. That's a strong accusation and a serious situation. As I previously stated, I know rabbis who have worked hand-in-hand with the Portland Muslim community for a very long time. If that kind of behavior is happening in the community here, they have the ability and resources and ties with the Muslim leaders to combat such behavior. I cannot imagine why anyone would have an issue with that. Of course, Hala's prejudice against Jews is obvious, but why should that get in the way of helping Muslim women who are being beaten? Should bigotry against Jews be more important than helping women in need?

Sooo.....you are against getting help for Muslim women who are being beaten? How is getting help for women who are being beaten being "abrasive"? That's fine. Have your pout. That won't stop me from asking the rabbis to help these women.

Me? "Aggressive"? For asking questions? If there is anyone being "aggressive", it is not I. I know rabbis who have worked very closely with the Muslim leaders here for many, many years. If there are indeed women here being beaten as you state, that is important information for them to have. I am curious to discuss this with them and hear what their experience is, and how they are working to deal with such incidents. When you make such a provocative statement and claim it to be fact, why would you be angry at someone asking you about said statement? And if you are concerned for these women, you should be happy if others show concern for their welfare. You said you know "for certain" that it happens, yet you state that this is all hearsay. If the women who are being treated thus are to be helped, it will take more than hearsay to do so. By the way, I don't need your permission to have an opinion nor to have knowledge on a subject. I would think if Muslims are as violent as you claim, you would be happy that there are those who are interested in the victims of such violence.

So you are maintaining the stance that it is common for the Muslims in this community to beat women for perceived infractions? Not you "think so" as you wrote, but you know this to be fact?

You need to talk to your bishop....and do what he says. I see all kinds of issues here. You have a history of using non-member girls to satisfy your physical urges and you're "cool" with that. You have no desire for marriage but want to engage in one of the privileges of marriage.... If you're willing to engage in an activity....you have to be willing to bear the consequences. And there will be consequences eventually...whether you tell your bishop or not.

Here? In Portland? You would have been beaten for wearing those contacts? The Muslims I know here are nothing like that. It is certainly not the norm here.

You are claiming that a 7 year old is a molester? Are you saying that trying to peak at his sisters is "molesting"? Or is there another behavior he is engaging in? If your son is engaging in things other that which constitutes normal curiosity, he had to have learned that behavior somewhere. If such is the case, THAT is the issue you need to address. I am trying to understand how a seven year old barging into a sister's bedroom constitutes "molestation".

Doesn't this send the message, though....just go ahead and have sex if you want....all you have to do to make it "right" is have a civil marriage, wait a year to get sealed in the Temple. Why is there never any expectation that people either actually - gasp! - NOT have sex so they can have a Temple marriage from the get-go...or....never any counsel to stop the sex, repent, live chastely for a year and then get married in the Temple? I've seen people in other faiths manage to that. From reading various threads on here, it really seems as if it's no big deal to have sex before marriage. You just do the civil thing and that makes it all good.

Are you recommending dishonesty in order to avoid the consequences of one's actions? It's okay to break the Honor Code as long as you don't get caught? I also doubt that he can pull the wool over his Bishop's eyes by entering into a civil marriage. There are always consequences for one's actions. He might be able to delay the consequences for a while, but he will have to be accountable at some point.

Regarding this statement: "He keeps saying that we'll be good for awhile and then when we've been good for some time, we'll go to the bishop"....why are you letting him dictate your behavior? He can't have sex with you unless you willingly participate. Just because he can't control himself, doesn't mean you don't have the ability to control your own actions and stand firm in your own convictions. You cannot blame him for your actions. Have you ever thought about making your own choice to be temple-worthy? If I wanted to be temple-worthy for marriage, no one would stand in my way...least of all the person who supposedly loves me. And if you aren't endowed yet, don't you want to be temple-worthy for that? I wouldn't let a person who supposedly loves me, stand in the way of that, either. Don't be scared of speaking to the Bishop. The sooner you do that, the sooner you can on the right track. That's what you want, right?

Oh..my bad....I thought Eowyn saw my neighbor working in the yard.....

Dealing with you reminds me of dealing with the standard bully. I never said you were apostate. Interesting how quickly that word came to your mind when you sought a word to describe yourself, though. I told you how sorry I feel for you. Is that not sufficient "charity" for you? I also never said anything about being anyone's enemy. Your choice of that word is quite telling.

I am not your "dear sister". I am sorry that the clear teachings of the Church are beyond your comprehension. Several people have already been very "detailed", yet in your inability to grasp simple concepts, you feel compelled to turn to me to ask me to explain to you that which you have been unable to understand by reading on your own. I am sorry that you have such a desperate need to justify masturbation being "okay" that you are going to such lengths to invent your own interpretations and definitions in order to maintain your lie. I am sorry that concepts such as obedience are beyond your grasp. But it certainly would be interesting to be a fly on the wall when you try to explain to Heavenly Father why the Church leaders were most certainly wrong when YOU had the "truth" all along!

(If that were true)Why would that bother you? You make a claim based on something you "read somewhere", but can't/won't produce the 'something' or the 'somewhere.

It is easy to explain...but you clearly have reading comprehension problems, especially when you read things you don't like. I have a "problem" with your position because it is NOT the truth. It is a lie. See? So simple! Your judgment of others is laughable, especially considering the fact that you make a statement you claim is fact - masturbation is not against the LoC - based on something you claim to have read somewhere....but then cannot remember where you read it and therefore you cannot provide the back-up you claim to have. Yeah...and I "read somewhere" that I was going to be tall and blonde.

So very telling that when anyone asks you to back up your claims, you can't/won't, but make the demand of others. Can we say hypocrite? I don't have to "prove" your lie. It's already been proven by several others in the thread. And anyone with any knowledge of the teachings of the Church regarding the LoC can clearly see your lie. Sometimes when I come across a person with such a desperate need to be right, I wonder at the cause of their desperation. It's a bit baffling to me why - when the Church teaching is very clear - someone is so invested in declaring that masturbation is not against the LoC. I could see someone taking this approach so that when they go for Temple interviews, they feel they can "honestly" answer that they do abide by the LoC....when they don't.