Faerie

I believe the church doesn't pay for it all or ask for "pro bono" is for a very obvious reason. Handing out free children to whomever acts like they care can be very dangerous. If money is at stake, the adoptive couple is more likely to invest more energy and devotion and truely care about the end result. It's like handing a 16 year old a brand new mustang for free, they wreck it and get another one and no biggie. However if said 16 year old had to WORK for the car and pay for it, he's going to take much better care and drive it safer and will try his best to avoid any damages. Anyone can enter the foster system and get a "free" kid...and there are thousands of horror stories of abuse resulting from this program. I think the church is smart in asking the adoptive couple to pay a SMALL portion of the ultimate costs...Just like no one is going to pay for me to have THIS baby, I don't think the church is obligated to pay 100% for anyone else's baby. BUT..the church DOES pay 100% on certain adoptive cases. "Special needs children" come to members at almost no cost at all, aside from their own personal lawyer fees. This category is broad and can mean children over the age of 1, sibling groups, as well as emotionally/physically challenged children... I know for a fact that the church no longer handles pregnant teens like this. My mother worked w/ those girls for a few years and told me some wonderful things about the LDSS process. IMHO though, there should be shame, and yes..unmarried teens SHOULD give their babies up...those children deserve homes w/ a mother AND a father and they also deserve an eternal family... and today, pregnant teens have a plethora of sources before them to handle the consequences of adoption..the church provides unlimited counseling (private) as well as group therapy...the cost of this is part of the portion paid by the adoptive parents Sorry for flying off the handle, as I said...this is near and dear to my heart and I'm tired of seeing people come down on the church for the smallest thing...no matter what it is, there is always someone on this board who has to speak out against the church...i apologize for my short temper

I was actually referring to many people, not just you.. and sorry, the subject of adoption is very near and dear to my heart and I was dismayed that out of all the things to criticize the church on, not giving babies away for free and accusing the church of "selling babies" is ridiculous.. sorry i didn't use "quotes" too lazy lol I went back and edited my original post..may or may not of added clarification...

The quotes that got me going: "Because the LDS church is more of a business than a church." TR2 "AND...It is soooo cheap to make your own!" SRM "Anyway, THE CHURCH could easily cover all the costs involved, even mormon lawyers could do the legal work pro bono. It reeks of baby selling to me. " Bizabra The "fees" that the church does not cover are neccessary. It's not "baby selling" and how disgusting for ANYONE to dare suggest that. Biz: I'm sorry you had such a "terrible" experience, but get over it. Not all babies in the adoption program come from pregnant teenagers and not all pregnant teenagers should keep their children. Think of the thousands of infertile couples who have been blessed through the miracle of adoption. Don't like it? Should have kept your pants on IMHO I thought about this more last night and realized how mean this was. yes, hormonal, forgive. Mind's thought processes aren't going too smoothly right now. The "don't like it" part is more aimed at all pregnant teenagers whining because someone who knows better thinks they should do what's best for that child and give it to a home where it can be raised in an eternal family. I've heard this "criticism" of the church in the past and always thought it was laughable. I think it's silly to talk so harshly about the church just because you don't agree w/ how they handle teenage pregnancy. Again, forgive. Yes, the church is SO evil and SO business-like in making someone PAY for a child, cuz you know...getting pregnant and birthing a child yourself is free too!! Oh wait!! The church should pay for my maternity bills!!! I DEMAND A FREE BIRTH!!! Heaven forbid you actually help out the woman who's sacrificing a large chunk of her life!! Heaven forbid YOU help pay her medical bills and lawyer fees. Get real. First you complain that adoption is so expensive, but then you chastize and condemn the church for subsidizing 75% of the cost!!! and SRM...it's not always "cheaper" to "make one." Grow a sensitivity center in your brain while you think about that one. Disgusting...

i'm finally pregnant w/ baby #1..but i had a very hard time getting here, so adoption may still be in our future... and the church subsidizes a HUGE portion of adoption costs..the maximum the church charges for a newborn adoption is 10K...starts at 4K and it's based on 10% of your income... and i agree w/ whomever pointed out the proc on the family where our current prophet upholds the "multiply and replenish the earth" commandment...

we've decided that if i'm unable to have a lot of children, we're going to adopt

IMHO...it's not on my shoulders, or your shoulders to bring "as many as possible" spirits into this world..we are to bring what we feel is best...if that makes sense...i'm nauseated beyond reason and about to crash... trust me..we used to say "yeah we'll be one of those families w/ 8 kids and pop out a few twins on the way" and now i'm pondering how i'm gonna make it through the first one!!! lol... and i don't think there's one thing wrong w/ the church having a stance on birth control, one way or another...tr2, religion is all about telling man what you should and shouldn't do w/ your life...get over it... we're told to eat healthy, don't drink, don't smoke, etc..etc...etc...a prophet saying "don't put money and extravagence ahead of having your children" is no worse....

AGAIN...it comes down to you, your husband, and the Lord...it's not THAT complicated of a matter..YOU will know when the time is right and even if you THINK the time is right, the Lord will definitely let you know when it's time...We THOUGHT that we were gun-ho ready for kids 2 years ago....well...the Lord had different plans and here I am just over 2 years later in the "trying to get pregnant" arena and I'm finally pregnant.... and yes, the "multiply and replenish the earth" commandment did not apply JUST to A&E...it applies to all of God's children, but it's also on our shoulders to make the decision of how many is enough/too much...

ya know that's the 2nd time someone on here has doubted going to a bishop for advice... why have bishops if you don't believe what they say?

Like I said, I've read all of those quotes many times in the past trying to resolve the whole birth control issue. If you are having that big of a problem w/ what has been taught in the past, I would have a nice counseling session w/ your bishop and then pray about all you've read and learned. For us, we are going to have as many as God will give us. Not because Spencer W. Kimball said we should, but because we struggled w/ infertility for 2 years and by golly we want us some kiddies!! That was a decision we reached through prayer and fasting. I know the webpage you got those quotes off of, and I don't know the sources of all of the quotes nor the context in which said quotes were made. Brigham Young made quite a few statements that many people have screamed was doctrine, when in reality he was merely expressing his opinion as a man, not as a prophet. If you pray and fast, YOU will receive an answer for YOU..let the rest of the church worry about the decisions they have made...

rationalizing it doesn't make it right

This is a subject that DH & I have talked about consistently. We've read the birth control statements. IMHO, those statements (not so old, many are from Pres. Benson) are aimed at people who put money, status, and having a big home ahead of starting their families. Our purpose on this earth is three fold as we all know, but the first commandment given to mankind was to reproduce and not one prophet has ever taken that commandment back by saying "oh, the world is too full...you can stop now" A lot of the statements I've read are aimed at governments that restrict the family ala China. I completely agree w/ everyone on the "It's between you and the Lord." I know a member of our stake presidency looked at his newborn son, #4 in the family and said, "Well, he's the last one." and never looked back. He told us that he's at peace w/ his decision because he knew that his youngest completed their family circle. I don't think it's a matter of contradicting "wrong" things said by previous prophets...Spencer Kimball said a great # of things regarding birth control....think about the time period in which he made these statements..Women's Lib was full force, women giving up marriage and family to be "equal" with men, women were having "secret" abortions and the pill was a magical revolution for a sexual age...So I can see why he and other leaders have spoken so strongly about it...

*quease*

well gosh golly...the church MUST be false now!!! </sarcasm>

gosh...water must be AWFUL lol

Ah yes, yet another thread that could have been spared w/ a simple search on lds.org

could not, would not in a house?

You're right SRM...:) I was being a bit overexaggerated when I mentioned corruption *tongue in cheek*...Of course if a bishop doesn't give you a recommend cuz you eat meat..there's something wrong there..maybe he's a SDA in disguise..lol..I suppose my latter thoughts on going to the Stake Pres to do something about it supercedes the "steak vs temple" comment... I personally have never had a recommend interview where they ask if I eat meat or if I drink iced tea. They simple ask, "Do you follow the WoW." I answer yes w/ the knowledge that I do...I had a small dr pepper this afternoon...I don't feel that's inappropriate...I follow the WoW though :)

yes...and notice that it's blue *hmmmm*

Ammon:

Gee...how about you NEVER trust your bishop or his discernment??? Give me a break!!! If you live in a ward where the bishop is THAT corrupt, you need to relay a message to the Stake President and if HE's that corrupt then you can go above him... That's what the bishop is there for..to help us in our journey...If God wanted us to do it on our own, He wouldn't have placed so many positions of leadership on the earth... My bishop is old fashioned, but I trust him. I sustained him along w/ our Stake Presidency, so I will uphold their decisions. That doesn't mean I will blindly follow them, I have enough smarts to see if they are teaching false doctrine and so should you sweetie

Same with my mom..if we missed church, she'd get us to go to the next ward's sacrament meeting...

Oh man...I use the term Sacrament at least 10 times a week..lol

If your bishop is that strict, then oh well..what's more important, a steak..or the blessings of the temple?

Personally, if it's THAT big of an issue for you, ask your bishop. This is a message board, we're not experts on the church. We can only GOOGLE so fast, but your bishop would be able to give you a decent, honest answer that you can pray about. :)

What if I take dextraim and it contains green tea extracts..oh no!!