Faerie

Exact figures? Of course not, because it is subjective. I always compare faiths to marriages. And there are so many ways that a person changes in a marriage. Wheras most religious people seem to live the same things over and over again. The best way to put it (ex for a person who has been xxx for 15 years), is they have been xxx for one year 15 times. Faith is supposed to be a relational thing. People change in relationships. Or at least I do. My marriage gets better every year because my wife and I learn more about each other, we learn new things that we like to do together. Our relationship ius very healthy because we have never had the same marriage for two anniversaries. I love my wife more and more each day and am determined to never allow it to plateau or get comfortable in the motions. Since the bible describes a relationship with God as a bride-groom relationship, faith should be the same.I don't get upset when somebody bashes my marriage relationship because it is secure(bashing my wife is another thing that will get your face kicked). I see so many religious people get so upset when others bash their faith. If what you have is real than what others say shouldn't bother you. if criticism makes your faith stronger, than you are in a faith based out of some kind of rebellion or need to be different. I don't take people's word when it comes to faith because people are good liars. Just look at people's behavior. I know the religious masks because I've worn many of them. I've seen and heard the LDS testimony many times and for the most part I don't buy it. People are saying what they believe, not giving their life experiences. A testimony, by definition, is what? It is your experiences, not what you believe to be true. if you take the stand in a trial are you allowed to say what you believe to be true or do you have to tell your experiences (ie what you saw, what you heard, what you lived)? Some people want to have something so bad that they will settle for simply having an opinion that lacks any of their own experience. I believe we are living in a time where people are more hungry for spirituality than ever before and human beings seem to always do things the quick way and not the proper way. A quick way that I have used to single out the people that I am referring to, is to see who objects to this line of thinking. I think people object because they don't like their ideals to be messed around with, wheras the people who really want to go after God will do whatever it takes. ok trident, whatever you started taking i like it...lolI can see your point and I DO see this happening in many people..LDS and non... That's why when I tell my story, I tell the WHY behind it..sure I can spout off the Primary testimony...but it's just not the same... Here is an example of what my testimony sharing is like in church... Last Sunday I stood and bore my testimony. I started out by stating that I had FINALLY gained a testimony of prayer. My ward knows of the struggles I've gone through to get pregnant. We have a very close ward, a very sincere ward and I am very lucky and thankful that we have such good members.. i digress I bore testimony that I know that God doesn't always answer our prayers....immediately..and I shared my news of being pregnant (only 1/2 of the ward knew)...due to my trials, I gained a testimony... but I do remember when I was a teenager...I only gave generic testimonies..because I did not have any real experiences that made me learn...

Christ did not pass through the veil. To believe otherwise is a very gnostic view. Christ didn't forget everything when He was born? As MPS put it, the veil may have been thinner...but he WAS born of man, and passing through the veil of forgetfulness is part of the plan of salvation..I doubt as a 2 year old Christ was preaching to the people....lol Christ was God. Are you suggesting that God can forget God? I would believe that that is someplace that even angel fear to tread. If you read some of the "lost books of the Bible", some of them make it clear that Christ knew who he was from a very early age. Go to this site and scroll down to about the middle of the page and read the Infancy Gospel of Thomas. Then you will understand. http://home.epix.net/~miser17/Thomas.html Jenda you're missing my point...Christ was brought down to our level *condescension*..He grew in Mary's womb and was born of blood...even if He knew who He was at an early age, He still passed through the veil that all of God's children go through upon birth...that does not take away His status as God...He didn't come out as a 30 year old man knowing the many intricacies of heaven and earth..he came out as a newborn, fresh from God and HUMAN...he may have been part-deity...but He still went through the veil...I don't see how stating that detracts at all from Christ's "status"....He may of had angels as Nursery leaders, but He still had to learn and receive revelation... and I will point out, that this is MY view...this is not something I've ever heard discussed in church..it simply "makes sense" to me...that God laid out the Plan of Salvation in a very distinct and orderly way...and ALL of God's children who come to THIS earth come and go the same way...the only difference is, only ONE of God's children broke the bands of death and provided a way for us to return to our bodies...

How many times have I changed the subject in a discussion simply so I could take some kind of shot at you? When I start doing that, then you will understand. When I insult your job, your family, your integrity, and anything that you care about, then you will understand. But you are right, I should ignore him, even though it is difficult at times. Do you think his behavior is a good representation of your religion and what it teaches? I don't. I don't agree with the theology of your religion, wheras I don't think I could have a lower opinion of this man if I tried. trident i'm not even going to pretend that i know your personal history w/ snow...all i can go on is what i've seen on this board since february...i personally haven't seen it...however i'm not going to get into the middle of that.... does he represent "my" religion well? no...i don't think anyone on this board REALLY represents the LDS religion the way it should be represented...myself included...I've never met a member like Snow, but the Internet usually provides a person w/ more personal freedom to express themself that reality does not allow...I don't speak my mind quite as freely as I do here... But I do believe there is a function on this board..where you can ignore someone's posts...at least I know it's an Invision option...perhaps you should look into that :)

sheesh jason...ever heard of compassion and Christlike love? Bit harsh dude...

It's frightening when it happens, but it DOES happen..lolI agree too Trident!

Faerie

Christ did not pass through the veil. To believe otherwise is a very gnostic view. Christ didn't forget everything when He was born? As MPS put it, the veil may have been thinner...but he WAS born of man, and passing through the veil of forgetfulness is part of the plan of salvation..I doubt as a 2 year old Christ was preaching to the people....lol

This man hacked into this discussion board, and got booted for it. He has insulted a friend of mine who was KIA in Iraq last year. He has taken the head off anybody who has dared think differently than him. He has accused me, peronally, of rape and assault just so he could get the upper hand in a discussion.Do you associate that kind of behavior with Christianity? **edited as per request** but see Trident...by making a remark like that..you add fuel to the fire..I know I've been guilty of it in the past, so I'm not trying to be innocent...but if we're all trying to get along...why can't you just ignore Snow? I'm learning to ignore some of your posts and I'm much happier :)

Of course we're forgetting the beginning... You know that little part where God laid out His plan for us and asked for a Savior.. Christ volunteered...but He passed through the veil, thus forgetting his promise to the Father...once it was revealed to Him (in one way or another), He still had the free agency to either fulfill His promise to the Father, or reject it...but He was meant to be the Savior from the beginning of time...He predestined his own self by volunteering...

why do you do that?

Shanstress: my husband has always questioned why good people die in horrific ways, but it took a bullet to stop adolf hitler... like kevin said, we may never know...a couple of weeks ago a good friend of mine from growing up in YW died in a car accident..her husband was in the car behind her and witnessed the whole thing...like starsky said, God knows us..He knows when we will go..and He will also bless those who suffer in this life... I think this is one of those things we are not meant to understand completely..that we just have to have faith...otherwise we'll go insane trying to figure out God's will...

Ya know LT, I think this was what I was supposed to REALLY learn through my trial w/ infertility...We always expect the answer when we want it...and it doesn't always happen that way...and you're right..it CAN seem like forever..and in God's eyes it's a mere *poof*!!

oh sorry jenda...lol

I'm 5th generation LDS. I grew up doing the primary "testimonies" and parading around at Girl's Camp acting like a good little Mormon girl. Meanwhile I was smoking pot at the dances and lots of other various sundry things. My father passed away 3 days before I turned 18. At a time like that, one has two decisions: turn TO God, or turn away...I turned away... I went to BYU so as not to disappoint my mother and spent the majority of my time there in NCMO sessions and smoking pot...GO COEDS!! I came home and met my future husband. He was a raver who claimed to be "nondenomenational." 18 months later we were married, by my old bishop in his home...to please my mother... A year later 2 missionaries treked up our 1/2 mi driveway and knocked on our door. I joked about having a homing beacon on me, they had no idea I was LDS. Over the next 8 months my husband took the discussions, of his own free will. I was nonchalant about the whole thing, knowing that he was too "logical" to accept mormonism...He didn't even know if God was real or if He was a result of mankind trying to hold power over one another... Gradually I started really paying attention...I had heard the discussions before..my best friend had joined the church in high school...but I started to look at Mormonism through my husband's eyes..he questioned EVERYTHING...the poor missionaries often stayed at our house until curfew answering my husband's questions...he didn't just "blindly" accept the Gospel...he wanted to KNOW it was true... while he was searching for his faith, I re-examined mine...I read the BOM on my own, and I started praying again..something I hadn't done in 3+ years...We started going to church, and instead of feeling alienated like I had at BYU, I felt welcomed...I paid strict attention to our Gospel Doctrine classes...and my testimony started to grow...I never received a huge neon sign saying "THIS IS THE TRUE CHURCH" nor was i engulfed in magic flames...I just simply grew to know that THIS was where I was supposed to be... My husband joined the church in November of 2000...and since then has grown so much in the Gospel it's awe inspiring... My life has changed since then...we are much happier...but happier in a different sense...I've still had my battles w/ depression...we've had our fights...I even left him once....but our hearts have changed, we forgive much easier, we show more love, and we grow and grow... We were sealed for all time and eternity on December 8, 2001, exactly 60 years after my own parents had been sealed...going to the temple was one of the most trying times in my life...because every obstacle, every negative thought, every doubt was being thrown my way...I can testify that Satan was trying to keep me OUT!! I am so glad that I held on, that I did not cave...I love the temple, I love the peace inside and the sanctity of the rituals really makes me feel special... I almost lost my faith through Infertility...because I didn't understand the WHY part of God's plan...thankfully my husband was there, w/ support and love and his testimony...I had finally accepted the WHY when I got pregnant...voila!! I am not one of those mormons who goes around to everyone and tells them I go to THE TRUE CHURCH...I rarely share my testimony w/ strangers...I don't feel comfortable in imposing my beliefs on others unless invited...I'm not a good missionary...but I do have a very strong conviction and a very strong faith...God has given me numerous chances in life, He has watched over me when I had turned my back..and He has blessed me beyond measure...I "joined" the church because I felt at peace...at last...I had to fall away to see the light..and I'm very thankful that the Lord was there to accept me back w/ open arms... and I love my family, and my teachers, and the prophet and the book of...oh wait!!

Hence why we were taught in Seminary that there is NO "real" G&AC...it's SYMBOLIC....there is no certain creed or denomination...it's a symbolic teaching pitting the followers of Christ against the followers of Satan...it's really that simple! We must remember that a good majority of our beliefs come from symbolic origins...one reason why so many had a hard time following Christ because he didn't just come out and say it, he taught in allegory and symbols...

considering the first commandment given to man was to leave mother and father and to cleave unto one another and multiply and replenish the earth... i say it's important... oh and that thing called the Family Proclomation...

lol...he should know that i'm pregnant and stubborn and HAVE to have the last word...rofl..i just find it funny that he can be rude and arrogant and start contention wherever he wants, but as soon as someone points out his faults they're labeled as "rotten" lol!!i just like to argue..like i said, i agree w/ him on non-religious views...

can't take a little criticism eh? gee...and you were JUST accusing mormons of not being able to do the same thing...

Wow, I didn't know that was your's. Do you mind telling me your name there? I am already a member, and used to go there quite a bit. I stopped going there for obvious reasons. When I went there though, I thought there was a fair amount of activity. same as here...Faerie

ya know...i loaned my "book of pooh" and "book of piglet" books to a friend a long time ago and never got them back!! i thought they were very insightful books and I didnt find anything that contradicted w/ Christian beliefs...

I agree!! Never been taught that you HAVE to be polygamous to be exalted...guess my husbands future wives better learn to love cooking and cleaning cuz they ain't getting no lovin!!

Yet it was you who began with the personal insults.Go find somebody else to bother. BTW, it's interesting how you use your dislike for me as an excuse for your rotten behavior. ROFL...how old are you? lol!!! "he started it!! not UH!!! she did!!! LIAR!!! MOOOMMMMYYY!!!!" I guess it's ok for you to call mormons "stupid" and completely insult our faith and beliefs, but if someone calls YOU an idiot, they're just rotten... I only dislike you based on YOUR behavior...maybe if you tried to be nice to people instead of constantly starting fights and bringing turmoil into every thread I may find out who you really are and what you're really like...afterall, we DO agree on non-religioius points...you just always have to make an idiot out of yourself when it comes to the LDS faith...you can't leave it alone, you HAVE to let everyone know how WRONG the mormons are...so i'm sorry, i didn't "begin" anything...just responding to your negativism...

i think you should exercise to the 10th degree darling :)

hmmm...let me quote a few things: So is it "Do as I say, not as I do?" Are you going to teach this "doctrine" to your children? For someone who is so "Christlike" you have more animosity and contention than any man I've ever met before. *hands TR2 a mirror* Start acting like it...See Tr2, you can say and do nothing to lessen my testimony of Christ or dampen my faith in the Gospel. Because for all your snide remarks you are the LEAST Christlike person I've seen in quite a while and I don't say that lightly. You like to preach to us crazy Mormons about how wrong we are and how we ignore the Bible and only accept certain parts of it, but you must have missed the part about loving thy neighbor and being like Christ. So when you start acting like a Christian, I'll start caring about what you say on this board.

lds-women.com is my site, that i've tried to get up and running as a nice place for LDS women and Christian women to reside and get to know each other..all are welcome as long as the stuff that happens on this board doesn't carry over... shanstress you are always welcome there, but i understand that you may feel a bit out of place... it's a bit boring now because no one posts, and no one promotes..i can only promote so far, so thank you shanstress for the plug :)