Faerie

aiken..you're human..that's what..we all have our struggles and pitfalls...

I personally won' see it because it's rated R...

i can see this as far as bat is concerned..but i personally do not like being singled out in the way of matt's post..i don't do that to other people...i don't tear down their beliefs personally and i expect the same, pregnant or not :) and trust me, i'm the least stressed person you'll find!

I was apostate for 3 years while I married my husband. I "fell for" all the "mormons are bad" diatribes I found on various "mormons are bad" websites..I studied up on church history, I "fell for" the crap that people like bat and matt (ha ha that rhymes) are trying to instill on this thread...people hold joseph smith and brigham young up under this bright light and point out all their errors and mistakes and proclaim that they were false prophets due to human falacy...to ME: early church history is interesting and sordid at points...but it's early..and it's history...the church has evolved tremendously since then...we've learned from the mistakes of the past...I believe there are too many wonderful things about the Gospel and about this church to let early mistakes take me away...I know that God didn't come down and personaly tend to every little detail...men were left to figure out a lot on their own...mistakes were made yes, but the church grew stronger through those mistakes... I can see and understand the idea that Joseph fell away at the end, and I don't see that detracting from the Gospel today...Even primary children are taught that Joseph screwed up a lot...did he become selfish w/ regards to polygamy? Probably...was he punished for this? maybe...do I care, does this affect MY personal worthiness? no...was brigham young an idiot at times? yes...were his views regarding race and sex unique? no...do i care, does this affect MY personal worthiness? no...those men made mistakes...the mistakes have been rectified over the years...I personally don't understand polygamy..I do understand that polygamy is not a "mormon thing"..that it's been around since the beginning of time...this is an issue that I choose not to worry about, as it doesn't affect my life...I don't believe polygamy will EVER be an issue on this earth again...not while men are still leading the church and the world..I don't have a perfect understanding of it, nor am I expected to... I DO know that I have personally been on "the other side" and I have tried very hard to deny the church...I was actually very disappointed when missionaries showed up at my door and my non-denominational "sure i believe in Jesus" husband let them in...but I decided to have an open mind and an open heart and I received a testimony for the first time in my life... I was very leary of going to the temple based on the history and the details revealed on various websites I had read...I did not go into the temple as a blind believer...I did not go into the temple with the attitude of "everyone else does it, so here i go"...I didn't go into the temple with the attitude of "my leaders say i have to go, so i'm going"...I went into the temple with a very open heart, and a very calm mind...and I received a personal revelation that what I was doing was correct for ME...I haven't held a temple recommend since December when mine expired..mainly due to health reasons and personal worthiness issues..but I look forward to going again soon...as I feel peace of mind and heart..and I don't care how much you make fun of me bat, I don't care how "false" you claim the teachings to be Matt, you will not take away that feeling from me...I'm not a sheep, I'm not a Utah mormon, I've been well exposed to outside religions and beliefs... I believe what I believe..you can mock it all you want..you can try to degrade my intelligence and claim I'm on "Prozac"..but you WILL NOT take my testimony away from me..so stop trying to...I'm not trying to change your beliefs or outlooks on religion, stop trying to change mine... and Matt...I don't appreciate your last post...you're not being respectful of my beliefs here...insulting me by claiming I've "bought into a lie" and then asking if my post holds any truth..that's fine for websites like exmormon.org or that stupid christian forums website..but not here...please stop...

I'd bet that Gordon the Hinckley would say that he doesn't know whether or not he approves of that link. It's a very deep philosophical thing that we don't really know very much about. Go read your scriptures and do whatever your bishop tells you, but we didn't say that. bat..this is the 4th or 5th time you've degraded our beloved prophet, please kindly stop...I personally love and respect President Hinckley and am tired of seeing you insult him...

to me...i don't really care much about church history...i care about the church today...i've prayed and my husband has prayed constantly and continuously to lead us to the correct church for US..and we both feel that is the LDS church... I feel peace and comfort in the temple, in sacrement meeting, etc...the rest eh...I'll know the truth in the eternities...until then I'm happy being LDS and I believe my testimony to be very strong... I don't worship Joseph Smith..in fact, I've seen more emphasis on Joseph Smith on THIS board than I have my entire life in church...I worship Christ, the son of God the Eternal Father...if you have a problem with that, then it's your problem..not mine... just my 2 cents...

I don't think Laban's around to give his side of the story.. hardy..har...har

and you're an active "believing" LDS member?

i sense like 4 personalities all from the same person...strange...

the strangeites are moving up in the world of technology...impressive...

interesting...

I was never taught that I couldn't have caffeine :) I grew up drinking Mtn. Dew and Dr. Pepper...my parents always taught that it was fine as long as I didn't get addicted...:)

i know how the WoW came about...and I still don't see a problem with it....*shrug*

well...gee, i thought this was a pro-LDS site i can only admonish what panther said: read and pray...i personally think abraham is a wonderful book of scripture, i love the book of mormon, i have no problem whatsoever w/ a male hierarchy, brigham young wasn't the smoothest tongued prophet, but very few men of his time were, i don't accept everything that comes out of the brethern's mouth automatically..i pray about it, ponder, and usually find that i agree...that particular little nugget of advice is in reference to the prophet however...we are promised that our prophet will never lead us astray, nothing in the ole' scriptures about an idiot bishop, believe me..i've had a few idiot bishops and stake presidents...i don't fully understand polygamy, but i also believe that is why the Lord took that practice away..we as humans are simply not cut out to understand it and accept it in this mortal state...perhaps J.S. got carried away w/ it, I don't know..I also know that his life was ended rather abruptly, so perhaps he made a mistake...that doesn't detract from the gospel...so emma smith was the inspiration for the WoW..if only more men would go to the Lord over a concern of their wives...I love the temple, find peace in the temple.... too many people in this church get hung up over one issue...it's all or nothing for them...if they can't accept polygamy, the entire church must be false...i have eternity to learn and accept all of God's teachings...I don't stress over whether I fully know "the mysteries of Mormonism"...I find peace and solitude in the Mormon religion, I don't need to do research on the internet to find that... good luck in your findings..i would spend more time OFF the internet in regards to your investigation...only God can tell you what you want to know...everything else is just circumstance...

i was wondering why his chin was so ittle... hyrum's wasn't...we thought hyrum looked more like the paintings of joseph than joseph's did... so who had these masks before the church history museum got them?

shan..i just saw the death mask in person this week, and while it IS a bit spooky, it's very humbling to see... and people did that back then to remember the dead...they USED to take photos of dead people (the others ha ha ha ha ha)

says you have to create an account to read...no thanks..lol

well if i lived in san fran where i could protest the 9th circuit of appeals i would... but oh darn..they struck down the partial birth abortion ban as unconstitutional...

that i don't have an answer to matt...it's a start, but not the full answer...

you have an obsessive compulsive disorder don't you

OMG MAN!!!i left out the "vacuum" part because I could not bring myself to type those awful, hideous words... and as i said, i can tell when my baby is awake and when he/she's asleep based on heartrate...also there are u/s pictures of babies inutero with their eyes open and movin around, blinking and shunning light... "the baby is not complete"...i'm sorry hon, but around 12-13 weeks gestation a baby is COMPLETELY 100% formed..no new body parts are grown, no new organs are formed...everything is perfectly formed, just immature...a baby is MOST CERTAINLY complete while inutero after this point...to say that because the baby isn't completely born yet is a justifyable reason to SUCK ITS BRAIN OUT is not only barbaric but almost satanic...THAT CHILD could survive if the doctor didn't hold its head inside the mother's vagina.... and i agree w/ shan, i don't think we should continue this discussion as i'm about to whip out a can of something and go hormonal on you..lol

perhaps you should write church headquarters and let them know that they're wrong every time they publish a New Era, Friend, Ensign, the Church News, give speeches, publish Gen. Conference talks...oh and they REALLY need to edit out those pesky o's in the Bible, BOM, PoGP, and D&C....tsk tsk

amen shanstress... i can tell when my baby is awake and when he/she's asleep by listening to the heartbeat...always faster and baby moving around a lot while i'm laying down after a while... i'll go into descriptions...the reason why it's called "partial birth" is because labor is induced, the child is delivered feet first until only the head remains inside..then the dr pierces the back of the baby's skull immediately ending that child's life...most of these abortions are occurring after 22-24 weeks when a child CAN survive outside the womb w/ medical assistance... THAT is murder...pure and simple there is NO WAY anyone can justify that....

i got into a HUGE debate on another board regarding this article...the question was asked "should racial profiling of middle eastern "looking" men be allowed in airports"... i for one think 110% YES!!

i don't know about that...maybe in the very first few weeks..but the nervous system develops pretty rapidly..i'd have to pull out a few books to see when it's fully completed...