Abraham

Sorry that sounded condescending - it was just meant that the meaning was pretty clear. I did not mean to sound like you were slow. Pardon me. A

The best way to put it is to say, is there are no degrees of darkness just light. I think you can figure that one out. A

Hi, There are a few very good explanations from Black/African American members on the old FARMS site now called Neal A. Maxwell Institute for something or other. Go to FARMS and you'll find the right site. One of the African American members was a former anti and her story is very interesting. A couple of short snippets is that the 'we don't know' is the truth but either just serves to change the subject or furthers the debate and sad as it is does little to appease sincere seekers. The two excerpts I read give more of a justification of how the Lord is using the African American (for the lack of a better term) as his chosen sons and daughters, since they have been truly proven in the furnace of affliction, and so forth, to come forth as faithful LDS in the Latter-latter days (my phrase not theirs). I guess some things we are not meant to fully understand. For every conceivable reply we might have there is a justifiable rebuttal which as Bro. Millett or is it Bro. Robison said, causes more heat than light. Best of success in resolving this in your own minds and souls. Abraham

Hi, Yes some do have windows, but we can dismiss that as a mute point, the details are not going to go anywhere. Somehow you hit a nerve like you related. Whether someone was in 'trouble' I don't know. I do know that the JW are much more important than family, and I assume you know they do not celebrate any kind of holiday be-it birthdays, etc. Also, they do not believe in having pictures as they are vain images and support woshiping idols. No blood products as drinking blood is tabeau in the Bible. I was impressed with your maintaining the spirit and appreciating the fact that we can learnn from others. I am a convert (1970) so I appreciate it when someone takes the time to learn the truth and from the proper source. Of course the fullness of the Gospel has so much work growing the kingdom we don't have the luxury to criticize or pursue or attack other faiths. In my mind if you have the truth you better share it. If one does not belive their's is the fullness and only true church then they better keep looking. God is cannot be the author of the contradictory, and diametrically opposed doctrines of the 32,400 Christian denominations around the globe. At the same time, those faiths can prepare people to recognize the truth when it is presented. All roads do not lead to Rome, but they will lead sincere seekers to the strait and narrow path. Perhaps we have these encounters to see if we will truly love our neighbor and serve them. Of course we have the fullness of the truth, but if it makes us proud, presumptuous, or petty then we may be less than our enemies. You post we well written, Abraham of the Chaldeas

Remember not to put salt in a #10 can, it causes oxidation which is a nice way to say 'rust'. I have a CD with 1100 pages of Preparedness Stuff from our Fair, if you want me to e-mail you the files I can do that. It has 3 DO (Dutch Oven Cook Books) 2 Preparedness Manuals, Water storage, Solar, etc., etc. Abraham

This may seem obvious but there are so many instances where we only have a snippet of what the prophets have said, and we are left trying to decipher their intent and truth. A good example of what we learn from the JST. Secondly, a prophet is only a prohpet when he speaks as such, take for exemple Joseph Fielding Simth's statement that man will not walk on the moon. It may not sound trivial that his profession did not come to pass, edpecially to LDS. Well it is just a test of faith and continuity in the Gospel overall plan. Thirdly, we can mininsterpret scripture. For example, when Christ was translated just as his mission began he then could command the elements and perform the miracles - as we will do some day when we achieve the terrestrial paragigm. How many have missed that in the Bible. So, my point being we can, if we rely on the arm of the flesh (See II Ne 4:34) we can be out of focus and thing a scripture means something else or not see the intended dualism. Gott go, Abraham

Don't think for a minute the lack of windows has anythihng to do wtih a limited budget. That is naive. (don't mean to sound rude :-)) A

I am LDS, my mohter is agnosic, my father (divorced from my mother) and my step-mother (my father's new wife) are Lutherans, my Aunt and Uncle are JWs, and my other Aunt and Uncle are Catholic, and my brother is a monger - if you know what I mean. Anyway, we have some intersting disucssions. As far as JWs go there are harder to pin down than a greesed pig in a rain storm. From our LDS perspective there seems like a lot of evidence that they are at the very least incomplete as they have changed many scriptures to conveniently fit their dogma and liturgy. For example, their founder 'prohecied' the Messiah's would come in 1914. When it did not happen he claimed that since Archduke Ferdinand was assasinated in Austria and touched off WWI that was the beginning of the Russell's fulfillment. It seems strange to us but in some ways we justify certain claims that anits make against us in a similar manner - it just seems like we are justifed, because we have the truth. On my mission we had some discussions with JW and they claim that Jesus is not the Messiah nor the Savior, but that Jehovah is and will come to 'save' the world and 144K of them. We carefully outlined the statemens by nearly all the OT prophets that Christ was the Creator as was Jehovah, the Redeemer was Christ and Jehovah, and on and on and on, but it does not budge them, they have heard it all before. And much like the Phairsees when they argue. BTW - we were careful not to lose the Spirit but to attempt to teach them and be kind. Also, whenever, the JW come to my door I quote scripture and never let them leave without leaving them with at least one principle of the true and fulness of the Gospel. I wind their doctrine back on themselves agreeing with me until they are agreeing that Mormon doctrine is theirs. Someday it may sink in. One strategy to use is to smile. You cannot be contentious while smiling (but keep the sinister smiles away also). hee hee. All you can do is share. Oh, did you know none of their buildings/sancturaires have any windows. I wonder how they get codes to build them. I asked the JWs once about this and they said it was to for safety reasons - now does that sound like a typical JW answer or what. Best of luck, but remember, Saints are supposed to use reason and the spiirt, and not be tossed about by every wind of doctrine, especially if it has been changed to meet to expectations of their preachment. Abraham

Hi, Your points are well taken, and as we have been couseled, taking holy writ as our guide is a safe path. Just a couple of thoughts; when a prophet and more than one of them states doctrine, that is scriputure to me, as we know the Bible is deficient in many ways. I think though that the blood being spilt as a euphemism for being killed is an excellent point, though I am not sure it applies merely to the cross, as you have alluded to. If our sins are washed away in blood, do you think this is just symbolic of his dying? To me the issue is that he lives not that he died, and it was his suffering which caused the greatest of all, even god to bleed from every pore and this did not happen on the cross (the bleeding from every pore that is). Again, I appreciate your point but it kind of points to the Protestant's view of the 'cross as the point of reference' and I don't believe that it can carry all that weight, but as you pointed out summarily. Thank you for your itmeized and poignant response. In conclusion I realize I must be careful that so called doctrine that is logical and reasonable may not be divine or even doctriine. Regards, Abraham

Their is no evidence that in the scriptures that is, that Calvary was on a hill. You know the hymn, "There is a Green Hill Far Away." well there is evidence that suggests that for ridicule value and convenience that Christ was crucified just outside the city wall so the visitors and onlookers could get the message, and mock the Christ (Jesus of course). That makes sense (but logic has no value here) that they would not have walked an extended distance with the cross etc. I wish I could comprehend what he paid for me. So terrible, so necessary. Best regards, Abraham

Hello, BRM taught as well as early Aposltes that Christ revisited, reexperienced, and relived all that he had suffered in the Garden while being crucified. I appreciate the insightful contemplation but it seems like we are trying to split the Atonement into three parts (if not more) and isolate each one as being 'the' atonement' a noun or atonement being the act and so forth. One puzzling question I have often had is, and I have read this before also, is that the curcifixion was not a bloody experience, especially compared to 'bleeding from every pore' in Gethesemane. The reference to paying for our sins on the cross may apply to the culmination of the atonement but I will have to carefully meditate to see if it is there that his blood was spilt for us (not to mention the flogging). Trodding the wine press alone is a worthy comparison if you know how wine was pressed by groups of people stepping into huge 'grape 'boxes' as it were. Of course I do not mean to demean the severity of the crucifixxion I just don't want to miss the Garden either. Perhaps we are missing the point when we micro-analyze the components. (See II Ne Ch 9). Also, Christ was one of dozens if not many more who were crucified, some as you know hanged on their crosses for days . The punctuation of atoning for a univers of sin/disease/depression/pain/ etc. made it time for him to return to his Father of his own volition. (See Alma 7:11-12) I hope I have added some principles of value and have not detracted from your poignant thoughts. Regards,

I am impressed with the spirt of reply to those questions. I have been a member since 1970 and my conversion story can be read in the New Era, article by Vera Judge, "With the Spirit You Can Do Anything". In short my twin brother and I studied numerous other faiths but they were wonting in authority, and answers. Even as an 11 year-old the priests and ministers could not answer our questions about Apostles (or lack thereof), and why God would leave us with private intepretations of ancient scriptures from dead prophets. A good friend invited us to the LDS Church and the rest is history. It forever gets better and exponentially better. I love the scripture "He giveth light to our understanding ..." II Ne 31:3 He truly does speak to us according to our own language. Keep the faith, GW

Hi, I have often why one would want to 'color' in an entire verse. Once one becomes truly devoted to them they will be marking 90% of them, and then it defeats the purpose - one might as well leave them 'white/black'. For what it's worth I mark the key words, and small phrases with a wax pencil, as highlighters bleed through and are a pain. Now this will get you. I recite 40 - 60 scriptures each night and that cures any insomnia (LOL). After 2 or 3 thousand time of reciting, let's say the Psalm of Nephi you get the begin to relate to Nephi, and the prophets better. It is truly rewarding. I have a talk named "Feasting on the Word" that some may be interested in. In conclusion, "Do you know what the most important scripture to learn/memorize is?" It is the NEXT one. This way you can, NOT impress your friends but allow the Spirit to guide you, in blessings, talks, prayers, and for personal revelations. I do not color code the scripures as so many overlap. Also, during GC Ii try to find the scripture references the Authorities quote before they tell us. That is fun. Just some thoughts. GW

A good synopsis of Salvation is found in the booklet, "True to the Faith". It helps explain the 2nd spiritual death found in Helaman 14:18. Spiritual death is not just being separated from God. In the Tell & Terr kingdom there is some degree of God's presence (glory), so they do not suffer the second spirutual death. There are very few who will be cursed with that second death (see booklet), which probably means those in outter darkness. Abraham

Don't forget the Pope was excommuncated (the Roman Pope ex'd the Pope in Avignon, and vice versa) so neither has any right of succession. Just a fun historical fact. Also remember that the creeds adoptoed by men were not even found in the early Christian Church but were loosely embraced (becasue no one could understand them) 300 years AD. The US has not even existed that long, and so you can see how long it was before the idol worshipper Constantine CLAIMED one religion out of political expediency. Don't worry so much about the alleged chain of Bishop to bishop look at the fruits of their contradictory (and I like to say diametriallcy opposed doctrine which has to be diobolically opposed doctrie as well). It in infinitely more about confirmation from the Spirit and less about the genealogies. Always remember that Satan will have his near-perfect imitation set to confuse and befuddle man and woman. Warm regards, Abraham

As always, thank you for your poignant thoughts. In the beginning of my post I parenthetically mentioned that the Atonement was finalized by the resurrections but did not mean to trivialize it, which I am sure you realize. I agree with you. Here is a funny story. My 16 year-old son came to me and said, "Isn't it interesting that in the Gospel, one has to comprehend a concept or principle before we can accept it?" I said, "That is not necessarily so." He said, "Can you give me an example?" I replied, "Well, take for example the Atonement. We accept it but do not fully, or hardly partially understand it." My son agreed, then we went our separate ways. The next day, after sleeping on it, my son came to me and said, "I got it!" I did not know what he meant. I said, "Got what?" He said, " I now understand and comprehend the Atonement - so now I can accept it." I am glad he spent an entire night contmeplating the Atonement. Oh, the wisdom of youth. True story. Hee Hee. I hope 2008 is a great year for all of us including the the Master. Warm regards, Abraham

Hello, What is sorely amazing to me is that Christ had to revisit, reexperience, and relive all the pain he suffered in Gethsemane while on the cross to punctuate and finalize the Atonement (of course finalized by the resurrection) see BRM last GC talk and Heber C. Kimball's quote of the same. Additioanlly as we know (see Alma 7:11-12) that he suffered for all afflictions (not just for the sins) of every creature (whether this means man as 'creature; or every living thing I'm not sure), nevertheless he did suffer for world's without number as we read in Nephi where he had to come to Israel 'becasue that is the only country on earth (or any earth for that matter) that would crucify him (see what happened when he appeared to the Saints in Bountiful). The Atonment delivers us, saves us (so yes we are saved) and redeems from the consequences of the Fall. We are redeemed from three deaths 1) pyhsical, 2) spiritual (separation from God, and 3) the final separation from God after judgement (see Samual's comments in Helaman 14:18, referring to the SECOND spiritual death which makes three). The Infinite Atonment means that ALL will return to God. To say that the Atonement is a reconcilation does not do the Atonement justice. I loved the quote that I have listed here before that "By grace we are saved, after all we can do) is like saying once we are healthy we then can go to the hospital. I could go on about the miralce of Grace but won't take the space here. The Atonement gives us the hope that our obedience and repentance (the two most immportant components of our aceptance of the Atonment) give evidence of our claim of the sacrifice of the Lamb. After all, our free will is all we truly have to offer on the temple altars. The world cannot commprehend it and so they come up with the elemntary concept of being saved by believing only. It always makes me laugh when the debate over faith and works come up, the Protestants say no work is ever necessary and salvation is a free gift (which ironically is very true) but you do have to do something (believe/accept/profess etc.). Their double speak is a two edged sword. That is the one work that YOU/WE have to do to be saved. If one work is good then I guess it means it does take works. Well, enough rambling. I highly recommend the book The Infinite Atonement by Tad Callister. Happy and Fruitful New Year to all, Abraham of the Chaldeas

For me it is like cookies the one I am memorizing (eating) is my favorite. The Psalm of Nephi (II Ne 4:16-34) is incredible. Also, absolutely humbling and empowering is II Ne Chapter 9, because it is so intimate regarding the the atonement and why death is such an integral part of Father's plan. At the same time here is one to ponder upon. "He has filled me with his love, even unto the consuming of my flesh." II Ne 4:21. I chapter 4 we read that even Nephi battled depression for those who need to know they are not alone. That is why he (Nephi) says what he says in the most read scripure in all of Mormondom I Ne 1:1. Merriest of Christmas to you all, Abraham

Recently when there was an vacancy in the Quorum of the Twelve of course I know who would not be called. However, I asked myself how would I deport myself if I had that impression. And if so, why not act with a term that I have coined which is just-as-if-i-cation, and act just as if the call were going to come. Of course it did not matter one way or the other but if we were that in tune, that close to the Saviour, that Christlike, that kind, and loving, and able to receive that kind of revelation or perhaps better said, that able to respoind to the spitit of revelation than it would not matter. Here is a statement that is attributed to President (then Elder) Erying that kind of sums it up: You may be familiar with, if so it bears repeating: THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE UNSHAMED Henry B. Eyring "I am part of the fellowship of the unshamed. The dye has been cast out. I have stepped over the line. The decision has been made. I am a disciple of Jesus Christ. I won't look back, let up, slow down, or be still. "My past is redeemed, my presence makes sense, my future is secure. I am done with low living, small talking, colorless dreams, tamed visions, cheap giving, and dwarfed goals. "I no longer need pre-eminece, positions, promotions, or popularity. I don't have to be right, first, recognized, praised, regarded or rewarded. I now live by faith, lean on his presence, walk with patience, am uplifted by prayer and labor with power. My face is set, my gate is fast, my goal is heaven. "My road is narrow, my way is rough, my companions are few, my guide is reliable, my mission is clear. I cannot be bought, compromised, detoured, lured away, divided, or delayed. I will not flinch in the face of sacrifice, hesitate in the presence of the adversary, negotiate at the table of the enemy, ponder at the pool of popularity, or meander in the maze of mediocrity. I won't give up, shut up, or let up until I have stayed up, stored up, and paid up for the cause of Christ. "I must go till he comes, give till I drop, preach till all know, and work till he stops me and when he returns for his own, he will have no problem recognizing me, my banner will be clear." May you see the heavens and things as they really are (See Jacob 4:13) 13 Behold, my brethren, he that prophesieth, let him prophesy to the understanding of men; for the aSpirit speaketh the btruth and lieth not. Wherefore, it speaketh of things as they really care, and of things as they really will be; wherefore, these things are manifested unto us dplainly, for the salvation of our souls. But behold, we are not witnesses alone in these things; for God also espake them unto prophets of old. Abraham

Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you. In short there is a lot of information that was available to Enoch, and Abraham for that matter. Abraham spoke of planet we know little about in our system. It is like saying how could the Lord and Savior, grow line upon line, preceipt upon precept, here a little and there a litte if he was already perfect. And if you don't agree that he was perfect when was he imperfect and don't get complete and exalted confused here either. The fullness of the all the keys were not available so they had the fullness and knowledge and the PH they did not need us. Remember the brother of Jared received the Second Comforter back in the day. All the best Abraham

Remember what John said, something to the effect, "If they hate you, be of good cheer becasue they hated me first." We will always be hated, only a remnant will see the light. Aren't those the same things that were said of the Savior? Remember, we are builders not destroyers. I guess these guys, as liberal as they are would have made good Saducees - who did not believe in Christ as the SAviour of the world - it was 'Sad-u-cee'. Doesn't seem fair does it? :-) Abraham

LOL - I also am not young, just young in spirit/heart. I researched many churches when I was 11 until I found the true and full Gospel. I am sure you will agree that nothing we can do either as righteious Saints or unrighteous wll hasten or delay His Coming. The date is set and He knows when that is. I also agree that being preoccupied is counter productive If we strive to prepare then it just does not matter and all the conjecture is pure speculative waste. At the same time Matthew 24, D&C 45, as so forth give us signs that are to help so we are not left comfortless. Also, there is not doubt in my mind that angels are coming to visit the earth and will encourage us. I will ponder on your thoughts. So many are seeking with itching ears and listen for tinkling cymbals where they can have their curiousities even more aroused. I am sure you are aware that Joel's prohecy where it talks about young men shall dream dreams, old men shall see visions, the moon turning to blood, and pillars of smoke, etc, etc was declared point blank as already being fulfilled by Pres. Gordon B. Hinckley in the Saturday morning session of the 2001 General Conference. Hence, I think we can at least mark the progress of signs. In my humble opinion we are given these so we are not left to our own interpretations. Remember what happened to the early Jews who literally walked through the Roman's camps before the seige of Jerusalam where all the inhabitants left behind (not following the prohets I might add) were killed (men, women, children), where the crop lands were plowed with salt. and all the structures were burned or torn down, anyway, these ealry Saints went to Pella and dwelt there in relative peace. If were are linked to the Prophets, and not premature in our anxiety we will likewise be protecdted to a large degree. It has been promised even by Pres. Hinckley. Anyway, thank you for your thoughts, impressions, and insights, and yes even inspirations. Your friend to all, Abraham of the Chaldeas

Hi Traveler, I believe him 100% and I don't get a good feeling about those who want to reinterpret what he really meant of you know what I am referring to. However, if you look at the signs, and some of the other statements, we should be able to see the fig leaves and see that summer is nigh. If for logical reason only, I don't know how long HF can stand to have his children born without little chance to have the Gospel. What is it, there are maybe 100 times more births in the world than baptisms. The abuse (spousal and child), porn, how long can it last. Did you see my post where it was said, "it will all work out in the end, and if it hasn't worked out, it isn't the end. The most mosquoted scripture is Joshua 24:15 (I think it is) Choose you this say whom you will serve, whether the Gods of the Amorites in whom land you dwll, or the God of your fathers on the other side of the flood, as for me and my house, we will serve the lord. I think that middle part is very significant since there are many Gods in the world today also. I apologize if I quoted it wrong I just guessed from memory. If we are preapred and act as if it is far away, but are ready any day, we will all be okay. You have a terrific spirit of compasion, empathy, and charity about you. You don't get riled, defensive, or vindictive. All the best, Abraham

Thank you for taking the time to post this ision/prophecy. Ihave read a few times and am in full agreement that this all will be fulfilled. His vision is pretty minor to what we will witness and experience. But as Nephi teaches, oppostion in all things the kingdom will be rolling forward as well. Have you heard of the 'Black Flu'? I know you have heard of the avian pandemic that is pending. Did you know that the Church (lds.org) has a link to the US government's Pandemic site? Kind of interesting I think. The head of the Church's medical/health post has said, "It is not an issue of if, but when." This could be somewhat compliant with President Taylor's vision. When my wife and chaired the recent Stake Preparedness Fair, the theme was if you are prepared you shall not panic. If you have ever seen widespread panic it it worse than you can imagine. When I alluded to the fact that not much will change I was referring to the way nature takes its course. It not like the four horsemen of the Apocolypse will come riding out of the north with lazer beam head gear. It will be pandemics, earthquakes, tsunamis (see Elder Eyering's address on Raising the Bar -cool reference to 'this is nothing as terrible as it is to what is on the horizon.' Anyway, being prepared is more than have a basement full of wheat, rice, beans, and milk. The terrible day of the Lord is not called that for nothing. Thank you for reminiding us of the gathering clouds. BTW - here in CO we just had a gunment walk into the missionary training center for the Faith Bible Center and kill two and woould two other or more." We were requested to pray for our brothers and sisters the Baptists today at Stake Conf. Amzaing days we llive in. It is true we will owe S&G an aplogy. All the best! Abraham

BTW - Thank you, thank you, thank you for not referring to the Book of Revelations (it does not have an 's') Also, did you know that the, for the lack of a better word, title page of the Book of Revelation when it refers to John the Divine, it is a ajective not a noun so to make this clearer it could read, or at least be unerstood to read "John the Diviner'. Cool huh? Abraham