Anddenex

I think Christ purchased all of us and is free to do with us as he will.
I comprehend both views, and agree with both.  Psalms and similar verses are speaking of our origin and potential.  Helaman is referring, I think, to how well or poorly we (as a species) obey - and apparently, when it comes to filling the measure of our creation, dust is doing better in the percentages - though we probably have it beat in potential and straight numbers.  Moses too, I think, saw this dichotomy - nothing (compared to the sheer magnitude of all creation), but children of God nonetheless, and his work and glory.

If you kill person in cold blood because God told you to do so, then yes, I believe that judge can sentence you to death but the other persons right to live does not trump God’s right to take their life.

I think that we all belong to God and He can do with us as He will. Sometimes He acts directly, sometimes He acts through others. 

Nature obeys God better than humans, so I personally have no problem believing the bee and the ox were doing as instructed.

It is more likely you are conflating temporal death with spiritual death. The wicked destroy themselves spiritually. It is evident from scripture, if you take the words of scripture literally (i.e. God "smote" him, which obviously implies God killed him, unless you have come up with your own definition of "smote"), that God does indeed take the life and has many times.
Absolutely false – the wicked destroy themselves.   What are you thinking???????  Do you not believe in agency?????  Do you have zero concept of free will????  G-d is not the destroyer – Satan is.
So, when the the first born (especially those under 8 years old) were killed, it is because they were wicked? How does that fit with doctrine regarding their innocence, the innocence of children? Who took the life of the firstborn in Egypt, the young ones who were innocent -- not wicked? So when the scriptures testify and give witness, "For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the Lord." (emphasis added) It wasn't really the Lord that "smote" all the firstborn in Egypt (even those who were children -- innocent -- not wicked), it totally means something else?
It is obvious from scripture that God has removed his children from this earth, temporal death. Spiritual death, which destroys the soul, is obviously from sin.
I have no understanding of how you are ignoring these scriptures that clearly witness it was the Lord -- I am the Lord -- who caused the breath and life to cease from the firstborn of Egypt, which states clearly, "And it came to pass, that at midnight the Lord smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt...there was not a house where there was not one dead." But, as you have agency, you can believe what you want the scriptures to say.

So what you are saying is that you haven't picked up your Bible lately, OK. That explains a lot. Yes, I take it literally that Christ was born of Mary, and that she was a virgin, as this is one of the stories in the Bible, you don't? Huh, go figure.
Have you ever heard a prophet describe these events shared as being not "literal"? Hmmm...believe omegaseamaster75 that the Bible stories are not literal, or living prophets and their explanations and witness to literal events of the Bible? That is an easy weigh -- living prophets.
Edit: And yes, excellent side-step and stone wall that doesn't answer anything with regards to your question, and yes, literal events that did happen in the Bible. The flood happened, if it covered the whole earth is irrelevant, as again you side-step and stone wall Rob's response. The fact remains. God sent the flood, and the flood killed his sons and daughters. Fact remains, the firstborn of Egypt were killed. Side-stepping truth isn't going to help you.

Oh the ammunition you just gave me...

@mirkwood - I think you are going to have to arrest Nephi when you meet him. MG will be your deputy. Fortunately for you MG, Nephi would probably only shoot the sheriff, not his deputy (name that song and song writer) Boom!

@MormonGator, "Faith is tempered by common sense " Well it was the faith and common sense of Laman & Lemuel that told them Nephi could not build a boat.

@mirkwood - I think you are going to have to arrest Nephi when you meet him. MG will be your deputy. Fortunately for you MG, Nephi would probably only shoot the sheriff, not his deputy (name that song and song writer) Boom!

Gator, where is your faith? . God released all of these prophets and missionaries from prison except Abinada 
Mosiah 17:5  And it came to pass that the king caused that his guards should surround Abinadi and take him; and they bound him and cast him into prison.
Genesis 39:20  And Joseph's master took him, and put him into the prison, a place where the king's prisoners were bound: and he was there in the prison.
Jeremiah 37:21  Then Zedekiah the king commanded that they should commit Jeremiah into the court of the prison, and that they should give him daily a piece of bread out of the bakers' street, until all the bread in the city were spent.  Thus Jeremiah remained in the court of the prison
Alma 21:13  Nevertheless, Aaron and a certain number of his brethren were taken and cast into prison, and the remainder of them fled out of the land of Middoni unto the regions round about.
3rd Nephi 28:19  And they were cast into prison by them who did not belong to the church.  And the prisons could not hold them, for they were rent in twain.
4th Nephi 1:30  Therefore they did exercise power and authority over the disciples of Jesus who did tarry with them, and they did cast them into prison; but by the power of the word of God, which was in them, the prisons were rent in twain, and they went forth doing mighty miracles among them.
Alma 14:17  And it came to pass that Alma and Amulek answered him nothing; and he smote them again, and delivered them to the officers to be cast into prison.
28 And Alma and Amulek came forth out of the prison, and they were not hurt; for the Lord had granted unto them power, according to their faith which was in Christ.  And they straightway came forth out of the prison; and they were loosed from their bands; and the prison had fallen to the earth, and every soul within the walls thereof, save it were Alma and Amulek, was slain; and they straightway came forth into the city.

The true judge will be the stopwatch.
 
We will each be placed in a cultural hall full of tables and chairs that need to be put away after a church activity. 
 
Then we shall really see who has been practicing throughout their probationary time on earth and who hasn't. 
 
"I'm sorry, but you were only able to put away a Telestial amount of chairs and tables..." 
 

There seems to be an underlying belief in this thread that death is a bad thing. As I mentioned earlier, I'm not sure if that's how God views it. In some ways, death is like birth - both are nothing more than a transfer from one form of life to another. Why should we think it wrong or bad if God chooses to involve Himself in that process? True, when a person dies, there may be grief and mourning by those who are left behind, but for the person who dies, he is simply leaving his family and friends who are still alive and going to be reunited with those who have already died. I think it might be helpful to adjust our perspective and to look beyond our usual temporal, earth bound view. 

It is more likely you are conflating temporal death with spiritual death. The wicked destroy themselves spiritually. It is evident from scripture, if you take the words of scripture literally (i.e. God "smote" him, which obviously implies God killed him, unless you have come up with your own definition of "smote"), that God does indeed take the life and has many times.
Absolutely false – the wicked destroy themselves.   What are you thinking???????  Do you not believe in agency?????  Do you have zero concept of free will????  G-d is not the destroyer – Satan is.
So, when the the first born (especially those under 8 years old) were killed, it is because they were wicked? How does that fit with doctrine regarding their innocence, the innocence of children? Who took the life of the firstborn in Egypt, the young ones who were innocent -- not wicked? So when the scriptures testify and give witness, "For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the Lord." (emphasis added) It wasn't really the Lord that "smote" all the firstborn in Egypt (even those who were children -- innocent -- not wicked), it totally means something else?
It is obvious from scripture that God has removed his children from this earth, temporal death. Spiritual death, which destroys the soul, is obviously from sin.
I have no understanding of how you are ignoring these scriptures that clearly witness it was the Lord -- I am the Lord -- who caused the breath and life to cease from the firstborn of Egypt, which states clearly, "And it came to pass, that at midnight the Lord smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt...there was not a house where there was not one dead." But, as you have agency, you can believe what you want the scriptures to say.

There were periods during the creation (Genesis) where that is correct. That doesn't account for the 3,700 (approx) years of exile from the Garden of Eden right up to the final records in the OT. Moses wasn't in a temporary state of sleep nor Noah or the many prophets and kings of Israel who were commanded to kill, or use the power of god to kill.
I'm trying to read you here, not attacking you in anyway.
I think you're in love with the Old Testament as primarily being a metaphor instead of it being a collection of actual records- saying it is metaphor makes the deaths of the innocents fit with the God/Life view you hold.
I put it to you that the OT are records that you don't appreciate because they represent the old pre Christ laws of Moses.  What you don't acknowledge is the modern Church performing miracles, to bring down the wrath of God.
Hmm, you like Christ washing the feet of others, but not Christ dusting his feet, is that correct?
 

I can agree with all that.  What I'm not sure of is whether you agree with what the words say - that the Lord destroyed them (but because it's what they chose), or if you disagree with the wording, and if so, how you explain the Lord's choice of wording - or do you think Mormon or some other record-keeper didn't portray the message accurately?

Satan can and does destroy man through the irrevocable laws and decrees of God. Is it God or Satan that brought the flood waters in to destroy the wicked?

Oh no. Traveler.
With the exception of naming satan as a serpent (a metaphorical serpent) instead of a spirit being, so much is literal in the Old Testament. If you think about the chrono order of the old testament the next two records are the flood and the tower, which are both real, yet along with Adam and Eve and the creation, they are the most disputed accounts of the entire old testament by supposed scholars:
https://www.lds.org/ensign/1998/01/the-flood-and-the-tower-of-babel?lang=eng
Then we come to Abraham and on to Jacob (Israel) and then down to Moses and that's where the deaths of 'innocents' really plays out. I have no problem with innocent people being taken by the Lord if it makes way for the bigger plan and I put it to you that most of the people on the face of the earth in Noah's time were guilty of ignorance- they weren't working against the plan, they just didn't want to know.
Q- Is that sin?
A- Yes it is. But the removal of the ignorant through death is something many in this era can't stomach.
I totally get what you are saying about sin being the reason God deals out death however in the Old Testament, God takes mortal lives for minor sins or for the fact that some innocent people are merely in the way of the plan moving forward. Plenty of GOOD PEOPLE (by our standards today) die by the swords of Israel, under the command of prophets and so too, plenty die by miracles of God.
Onto Ananias and Saphira in the new testament. If you read the commentary on wikipedia, the account of their deaths really upsets some bible scholars. I imagine it does so because once again, from our tolerant perspective, the sin of Ananias and his wife isn't so bad as to warrant death.
 
Hmm, I put it to you Traveler that your idea of sin warranting death is based on your modern ideas of crime and justice. That is to say 'the punishment fits the crime' and we in our modern civilized state only give the chair/noose etc to those who murder, which is just according to us.
But when it comes to God's plan, God decides when and where to punish the sinner.
# God may take a life for no other reason than that good person being in the way of the plan- that applies to all, including the prophets of old and even today as well. I recall one latter day prophet stating  "...over my dead body..." with regards to his opposition to a repeatedly called for policy change, before he was taken from the earth 2 years later.
 
 
 

Well, I disagree somewhat. Even though death is the result of sin God can and in fact does destroy (kill) the wicked.

So how do you understand 3 Nephi 9?
Some highlights (note, I know they were destroyed because of their wickedness, and if that's your interpretation - simply that if they hadn't been wicked, they wouldn't have been destroyed - then nevermind, I comprehend and agree; but otherwise, this sure looks to me like Christ is saying he deliberated brought about deaths of a lot of people):
And then a big long list of other cities that were burned, sunk in the sea, or covered with earth - some of them pretty, um, strongly worded, condemning the dead.

People fully comprehend the gravity of this. I am not sure others fully comprehend the gravity of disobedience from an eternal perspective.

I see you missed this point, so I will specify it again, "Sixth, fortunately, we live in a time where the chances of God telling someone to "kill" (not murder) is so unlikely for any of us as our lives are no where near the same position. So again, the "I sort of want to call the cops and warn...." is amusing in reference to this thread. And I am glad in this day and age that this command, similar to Abraham and Nephi, are not likely to be given."
As self-defense isn't anything to worry about jail time for any long period of time, your cigarettes will be sent to the wrong place should I ever find myself in the same position my EQP found himself in. Wait! He didn't receive any jail time, and yes, he has to live with his decision and he is fine with living with the decision he made knowing it protected his wife and children.
"States out of the sky" is how you respond to "eternal perspective"?

This is a good quote; although there is a fallacy within it that a person must be cautious of, "Do not try to believe anything that affects thee as darkness."
Anytime we reject truth (I agree with Mr. MacDonald, not the interpretation of truth) we are indeed hurting ourselves and we are not doing Christ any less wrong by rejecting truth. If we reject truth, because we see it as darkness, we are doing wrong (saying it is less would be false).
Let me give another example from scripture. At one time God had all the firstborn children (even the House of Israel children who did not head the warning) would die. The destroying angel would come, and did come. If a person views this as "darkness" it doesn't change that this is light -- truth. So by rejecting truth, we are actually rejecting Christ who is the "the way, the truth, and the life."
I do like the concept though, "to misinterpret what God does," is very important and something we all should seek to refrain from.

Any cigars, expensive ones?

Then my protection will be set temporally and spiritually.