SpiritDragon

Along the lines of this conversation - being homosexual used to be considered a mental illness. But now with all of the PC policing going in it is far too unfavourable to go calling these people ill. I find this interesting because the "condition" didn't change, but the "diagnosis" did. Now imagine if a serious condition like heart disease simply stopped being diagnosed, not because it ceased to exist but that by virtue of it killing 50% of the population it was deemed "normal" and not really a diseased state.Would the heart disease be any less lethal if undiagnosed? Now sure it could be argued that these people with the underlying condition that would be considered heart disease don't really notice any symptoms of high cholesterol or high blood pressure until BAM - a heart attack or stroke occur, or they start to suffer with chest pain. Is same sex attraction normal? Clearly not, by virtue of it involving only a small minority. Is the underlying condition just hunky dory as long as there is no *BAM* -it just happened and I acted on my desires? Well that part is for God to judge. This all gets to be a tricky web of semantics as one gets deeper into it. What is attraction? Is it sinful to be attracted? It depends on how one defines attraction. For instance, as a heterosexual male, if I notice that another man has a nice physique and think to myself, "wow, he takes care of himself and has a great body to show for it" does this constitute attraction or mere admiration? Now when I notice the same thing in a woman does it constitute attraction or admiration? Is there a difference? Does it only cross over to attraction if I decide I want to be physically involved with them, or is it at that point lustful, which the Saviour states is essentially the same as adultery? My point? Yes, struggles are normal, but that doesn't make them any less struggles. Yes sin is "normal"in our carnal state but it doesn't become less sinful. Further, regardless of sexual orientation, one needs to guard thoughts closely to not cross the line into sinful lust. For now let's throw the term "normal" out because it's completely relative, normal in the Celestial Kingdom will be righteous desires and actions, so I would prefer to keep the discussion to righteous versus unrighteous - but as just stated that opens a can of worms with semantics. Food for thought.

The struggle is real. The socialists are trying to brainwash our children and remove our ability to fortify them with the ability to see through their crappy "education" - erm- indoctrination. Take a look at some of the tactics being used by our socialist government in Alberta, Canada.

A Nimoy comeback would really be something considering he passed away.

I agree and feel that part almost goes without saying. Satan's plan wouldn't work. It's like the socialist party of the day making political promises that any sensible person knows can't be kept and that if they are we'll all be screwed anyway! No doubt about it, Satan lies.

He's slowly growing on me as Kirk, but I admittedly like Bill Shatner in the role better. Obviously, newer actors needed to take over for the new franchise. I also find the new Spock to be quite likable, but he is no Leonard Nimoy.

Perhaps the following analogy will help, and if not that's okay too. Picture a familial situation where a teenager really wants to get a rise out his/her parents by doing something awful and clearly disobedient. The teenager wants to rebel. However, no matter what they do it's acceptable behaviour. As you mentioned agency requires choice and accountability, or as I feel makes more sense for this analogy choice and consequences based on choice. This teenager has endless choices of things to try to do to make his/her parents upset. However, none of them can ever lead to the desired consequence. Nothing this individual can choose has any meaning because the choices don't follow natural laws of cause and effect. There are no rules to break, so there is no choice to break them. Having no choice to break rules is essentially the same as forced obedience, it is simply not possible to disobey. If this helps, great. If not, I tried.

The statement being referred to has two parts. The first is that Satan promised to save everyone, and the second part is how he planned to do it (forced obedience). The scriptures teach the following: Moses 4:1 1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor. This verifies the first part of the above statement. The scriptures don't teach that it could or would work, but it is his argument that he would redeem all mankind. Then we get the more vague part of how; 3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down; Satan's plan involved removing agency. It is true that this doesn't explicitly say "forced obedience" but it also not a wild stretch to draw that conclusion. In fact J. Reuben Clark commented on this passage and stated there are two main possibilities this can be referring to; The first is forced obedience, and the latter is the removal of consequences making choices pointless because the outcome never changes which renders agency moot - which by the way is still a form of forced obedience because it changes the rules in a way that disobedience is not possible. So technically you are correct that the scriptures do not teach this phrase as written. Let me rephrase my understanding to say that Satan's promise was to save everyone, but agency would be lost. It must have been a reasonably compelling argument too, because it drew away a third part of the hosts of heaven.

Well Kirk is the original and paved the way for the rest to follow. I just find the original series to be a bit too cheesy and too campy. It's hard to take any of it seriously, and maybe it's not meant to be. I love the fact that the series was successful enough to allow for follow up series and movies, and I do enjoy the show for what it is. I also can't help but feel however, that it's a three man show with Kirk, Spock and Bones being the only characters that get much development while the rest of the crew is very one-dimensional. I felt like this was improved on a bit in the next generation as well as starfleet becoming a more reputable/professional organisation while it seemed like Kirk was in the wild west and making his own rules (not to mention getting romantically involved with every female alien across the universe). Anyway, I think there was something magic about the original series and the next generation that voyager, ds9 and enterprise failed to capture.

Okay. I guess I'll try to articulate my position. If I had to choose to only be able to watch one or the other, I'd have to go with Star Trek, although I do appreciate Star Wars as well. Now for a touch of pure nerd analysis.... The question is wide open when we could be comparing simply movies to movies, or series to series, or video games and other merchandise. If simply comparing movies I have to say Star Wars got off to a much better start with "A New Hope" (episode IV) than Star Trek the Motion Picture (V'Ger, V'ger... cringe). But in sequels, I feel that Star Trek continued (possibly continues with the new franchise as well) to get better, while Star Wars seems to lack originality (how many times will they blow up a death star like base?) and yet strangely the predictability of Star Wars in somewhat endearing. I also had a harder time wrapping my head around better special effects in the Star Wars prequel trilogy and better action scenes which seemed counter-intuitive for it to be in the past but the technology seems better. I got used to it though and it doesn't bother me anymore, it's simply a challenge of making newer movies with newer graphic possibilities and expectations from audiences that take place chronologically earlier in the story line. Anyway, I loved the ST TNG movies largely because I loved the series and characters, although admittedly the movies as stand alone offerings would likely not have been nearly as enjoyable. When it comes to series I am sure I don't even know all of the ones that are out there. For Star Wars I remember watching Droids and Ewoks as a kid and found them alright. I've since also watched some of the Clone Wars animates series. I've never even seen any of Star Trek's animated series, it doesn't appeal to me, so if we were comparing animated offerings I'd have to give Star Wars the win by a long shot. As far as live action series are concerned, I've watched all of the live-action Star Trek series and enjoyed them all quite a bit. There is no question in my mind that The Next Generation is the best cast and crew and the others (DS9, Voyager, Enterprise) are a weak shadow in comparison, while Kirk and the gang are just a different thing all together and enjoyable in a different way, for me Picard will always be THE captain of the Enterprise.... I digress I'm supposed to be comparing ST to SW not ST to ST. I'm not aware of any live action Star Wars series to compare to and therefore ST gets the win. When it comes to toys, I have to admit that I think the Star wars ships look cooler to play with as a little boy and inspire more fun battling than the Star Trek ships which don't have visible guns and so on and require a more mature understanding of the technology within. So for playability I'd give this one to Star Wars. While I'd be happy with bed sheets, a lunch box or a computer wallpaper from either option. Video games: While I can't even begin to imagine all of the video games these two sci-fi giants have to offer, I can say that based on one video game apiece that I've played the Star Wars one was more fun from a little boy perspective while the Star Trek one would've likely been more enjoyable as an adult. The SW one let me jump in a ship flying around blowing stuff up whereas the ST one had me role playing Kirk, bones and Spock on away trips discovering things which was too slow paced and boring for my ten year old mind at the time. This brings me to my main conclusion - I think Star Wars had more to offer me as a child and continues to target a younger audience, while Star Trek appeals to me more as an adult and doesn't seem to be as fun from a kid perspective having plenty of social issues for discourse and political interest to follow that were lost on me as a child.

I prefer the idea of teaching about "tricky people" over stranger danger because stranger danger can cause a lot of undue worrying about everyone a child doesn't know while also leaving them vulnerable to people who have worked into the circle of non-strangers. Children are more likely to be harmed by someone they do know than someone they don't. The tricky people concept helps kids to know that adults who talk to kids without talking to their parents aren't trustworthy, especially if they are asking kids for help. Adults who need help will ask other adults and should not put kids in this position. I suggest anyone interested in learning more about some simple rules visit this site: http://safelyeverafter.com/tenrules.html

I have now! What an interesting measure... now we just need to invent something having to do with the likelihood of some mormonhub.com (I still think lds.net) forum parameter that we can measure as microvorts

I believe we are largely in agreement. The attack is on agency. However, I believe that Satan does adapt his plans. My understanding is that during the premortal war in heaven, Satan's appealing argument was that everyone would be saved through forced obedience, as opposed to some being lost through poor choices as in our Father's plan. In our day any program that removes agency is still part of that plan whether it be to take our agency by virtue of addiction to good or bad habits or by force or economics. Forced obedience is no longer a concern of Satan's because he is hateful and wants to ruin The Plan.

It seems to be that the fundamental principal the war in heaven was and is fought over is agency. Satan's plan was forced obedience while Heavenly Father's plan allowed us to explore and make mistakes that would require a Saviour to atone for our sins. I see some of the largest problems of our day having to do with the loss of individual agency. In fact I think that is part of why the Church has the self reliance groups going on... it is easier to fully exercise agency when one is not financially constrained. For instance, in Australia, the no jab no pay policy of not giving government assistance to those who don't vaccinate their children is an attack on the agency of parents. One of the biggest enemies right now is public funded brainwashing in the school systems where children are being spoon-fed agency removing nonsense. While I agree with Spock that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, I don't believe that people should be forced. Goodness gracious, my province and country are using the excuse of global warming to tax us more and fund more social programs they promise. State mandates on the greater population not having to do with keeping the peace are among the worst ideas being promoted by Satan to continue his efforts to exert control and cause strife and war among God's children. The problem with everyone trying to promote their individual rights, is that it always seems to impose on someone else's somehow.

Don't forget Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home where time travel takes the ship and crew to 1986 and we get this memorable little clip:

I too find that broccoli goes over best when it is steamed. My 18 month old even eats it up and loves it! As for the cheese sauce thing, LP you mention you're not friends; is this a flavor thing or a not getting along with dairy thing? My wife makes delicious "cheese" sauce by mixing the following: 1/4 cup raw cashews (soaked over night is ideal) 1 1/4 cups diced/peeled potatoes (boiled soft) 1/3 cup diced carrots (boiled soft) 2-3 tablespoons of nutritional yeast 2 tablespoons grapeseed oil 7 1/2 teaspoons water 1 1/2 teaspoons lemon juice 1/2 tsp salt (optional) or to taste 1 medium clove garlic raw 1/2 tsp vinegar put all the ingredients in a high-powered blender or food processor and mix until smooth and creamy! If you like spice you can also try adding a little cayenne or jalapeno pepper to the mix or some of your favourite hot sauce.

I doubt that any atheists are created by having their faith in Santa shattered. My concern is whether lying to children about "fun" things erodes trust between parent and child when discussing other things?

I believe that there are no additions or deletions needed for the Word Of Wisdom. It seems to me that it is a principle with promises and operates as a loose guide to health. Altering it (and arguments about it) seem to stem from people either wanting to justify their food preferences or to enforce stricter regulations on others - neither of these motives helps anyone draw nearer to God. Admittedly, I've been in far too many conversations about the Word of Wisdom myself... and while I have my strong opinions about what is in harmony with the intent of the law and what yields the fullest of the blessings the law has to offer - I've also realized that it is simply something for me to abide by and live the law to the extent it has been revealed to me. The Saviour taught that there are to be no disputations among us, and I imagine all of the effort spent spelling out the Word of Wisdom is a saddening affair to Him. I will suggest the having a temple recommend is only one benefit of the WOW. Keep in mind that perfection is not required to enter the temple, if it were than none of us could attend. It is a benchmark level. If drinking sugary beverages is getting in the way of you being able to feel the spirit, or to run and not be weary, or creating brain fog that interferes with receiving hidden treasures of knowledge than I think it is clear that some changes are in order for you to receive these promises. Therefore you know for yourself areas to improve, but not to enforce them on others. Perhaps if you live the Word of Wisdom to the fullest extent that it has been revealed to you, you will be able to shine as a candle on candlestick, a beacon on a hill, and others will ask what you do to have such vitality and energy.

You're right Vort that's a wonderful awful joke. It reminded me of this (cough, sputter) *gem* There are three types of people in this world, those who can count and those who can't!

An indian chief was agonizing over a troubling recurring dream. The tribal medicine man asked the chief to describe the dream. The chief explained that he kept having the same dream in every detail except that sometimes he was in his teepee and other times he had a wigwam. The medicine man told him the interpretation of this dream was simple, "you're two tents!"

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone and give an update. I was able to pick up some Command hooks and by all indications they'll be great. the garland is hung, and one came off without harming the wall.

Thanks, Everyone. I'll need to try those command hooks I guess. I have considered finding something to leave up all year, but so far haven't found any suitable option that my wife would approve of - and although I'm less fussy, I'm not convinced I've seen something I'm sure of. I was starting to consider putting in molly bolts year round and only attaching hooks around christmas but that still leaves a screw sized hole most of the year - so I think I'll really have to give the command hooks a try.

Thanks, I may have to give them a try. My past experiences with adhesive hangers has always been that they don't hold well and fall off - or they stick too well and don't come off, leaving a large clean up that never seems to ever completely get the residue off... But who knows these might be awesome and I thank you. I thought I'd also throw it out there that the house is 106 years old and the walls are lath and plaster - just in case it makes a difference in some suggestions. Thanks again, Eowyn.

Hey team, I would like to find a solution to an issue we have. In between our living room and dining room we have a nice archway that is a great place to hang garland at christmas time. The issue is that when it's not christmas we don't want nails or hooks sticking out of the wall from hanging it up, and it's quite a hassle to patch the holes and repaint each year - making that an unrealistic option. Does anyone know of a way to "hide" hangers in the wall so they aren't an eye-soar the rest of the year?

True, I saw him in my mission and I was impressed that a man of his age could bound up to the podium three steps at a time. It helps that he's tall, but still!

When king @Vort learned of @LadyGator's sudden disappearance he sent for his best advisors, who would only have 0.003% @MarginOfError for predicting what happened and would improve their analysis by asking the magic mirror (a pond of magical molten @Carborendum). This all being done prior to the release of the mystical beast...