Gwen

There is a difference in longing to be attractive again and looking around when you are out and about thinking "i wonder if that person would be interested in me" and actively going out making profiles on singles sites, creating a false story of how your marriage ended and creating relationships. This isn't an "accidental" affair (one where things with a coworker just "got out of hand"). He is seeking an affair. Maybe even looking to see if there is something "better" while trying to avoid the risk of losing what he has just in case he can't land better. The difference isn't even a fine line. I would separate. He will not wake up until you do. If you give him another chance that is up to you. I wouldn't just put him out, I would make it a legal separation, child support and everything. Give him a taste of the life he thinks he wants. Prepare yourself for him not waking up and coming back. Remember what you do now is teaching your children.... how they can treat a spouse and how much they should put up with. Do you want your children living out the life you have now? You need to really prayerfully consider your next move. Keep in mind your priesthood leaders, though great resources, can not counsel you to divorce (even if personally they think it's needed and/or justified). This is a decision only you and God can make. Good luck and God bless.

I've seen babies over a yr being blessed. Sometimes it was due to family not being able to get together and others because the baby was premature and they didn't take them out until they had to. Do what is best for your baby.

I think he was saying the way he reacted to the situation (going inactive) was the young man's responsibility. If you go up to someone that smokes and act that way it's your fault for the words. But now they choose the response. They can laugh and walk away or they could punch you. If they hit you they are responsible for that. No one made the choice to hit but them.

I don't think you can place fault or blame on any one person. In the end yes the YM is responsible for himself. However, I do think ppl who act irresponsibly will be held accountable for their choices. If my parents asked me to stay away from someone they also taught me enough manners to not walk up to them and say it. Words are powerful and we will be held accountable if we use them carelessly.

I like Backyardigans. I liked blue's clues with Joe better than Steve. I thought Joe was cute. lol My kids have been into Ben 10 lately. It's better than others they could watch.

When we talk about being worthy I think we often think that is always defined the same way. For example, what is required to be worthy to enter the temple is the same as what is required to be worthy to receive revelation. That isn't the case. Worthy to be baptized isn't the same as what it takes to be worthy to enter the temple. Revelation is the same way. From my experience what it takes to be worthy of personal revelation is simply being open to it, asking, willing to listen, with a heart that will follow that revelation. So if you sit down after a night of drinking and sarcastically say "ok god, are you there? is the book of mormon inspired?" You probably won't get an answer. You are not worthy of that revelation. Not because you were drinking but because you didn't really want an answer. You didn't intend to follow if the answer came. However there have been times when in the midst of trial I became angry with the lord. My prayers were not kind. I was hurt and angry and feeling lost and alone. I blamed god and I wasn't holding that fact back. But they were genuine, I was truly speaking to god, I was desiring an answer, I was willing to follow if I got one. It was real and he answered me. I did receive revelation even though many may say I was not "worthy". The only requirement given by the lord to get that answer is to seek, ask, knock. Be genuine and you are worthy of that answer. I find the comparison of parent and child pertinent as well. As parents we want to give good gifts, we want to spare our children from pain but sometimes they push us away. I am currently in that situation with my stepson. For various reasons (no offense on our part) he has pushed us away. He is going through some very hard things right now and we can't help him. He won't let us, he won't tell us what's going on, he won't answer our questions. We have the ability to make this trial go away for him but he won't give us the chance. So all we can do is wait. When he asks we will be there with open arms. He could call at 2 am and I'd get in the car and make the hour drive to get him. But until he calls my hands are tied, he tied them. We are like that with our heavenly father. He wants to be there. We don't have to get life in perfect order to turn to him. He's waiting anxiously to help us, we have lose his hands and let him. If you desire to come unto christ you are worthy of personal revelation.

And the truth comes out. I wondered from the beginning if it was more a concern for what would be found on the phone than anything else. So now I wonder..... are you just afraid of looking less than lovely or worried information will come out that might delay your mission? If I had to guess I would say only the time of the accident is relevant. All they need to know is if a text was being sent at the time or if you were on a call. (Which isn't solid evidence. In our case my husband's phone would show he was on the phone at the time of our accident but it was me in the passenger seat who was using his phone. All phone records show is that it was being used not by who or where they were sitting.) The only way I can see the information 30 min or more before the accident being important is if you admitted to being distracted by emotional stress or something that was from a phone call you received/made while driving.

We got sued over a left hand turn accident. It was the other person's fault but being we were turning left the insurance company (and law) didn't care. The other person didn't have insurance and decided to go to a crack pot dr and claim injuries. In our case the insurance company "handled" the suit (aka settled and raised our rates). That's life I guess. Why are they jumping to the assumption that you were on the phone? Did someone make that claim as a witness? Is the insurance company just out to avoid taking care of what you pay them to do? By the way you comment on it I'm assuming it's against the law there to be on the phone while you drive. If you weren't on the phone then you have nothing to worry about. Have you checked your phone records to see if there was something you have forgotten. Should at least know what they will find if they do ask for them. Sorry there is no actual advise in there. lol Do you need to consider getting your own lawyer?

Not much to add. Just want to add my voice to the "it's time to focus on your wife and kid" It's hard but sometimes you have to let go and just do what you can. Right now that's all you can do. And don't feel to bad, lot's of families are messed up. Oh the stories I could tell if I were inclined to air dirty laundry. lol

I'm not defensive, I just don't share my pearls with ppl that don't seem to really care to hear it anyway. Just trying to figure out who you are. You are the one that said if someone takes a stand of faith they should be able to back it up. I'm just asking the same of you. Let's say we didn't agree that there was a god. Your evidence would be less than convincing. "I have seen miraculous things and I have read of miraculous things performed by him and through him" isn't enough. Let's say I haven't seen miraculous things or I have good reason to think the things you've read about him and done through him are nothing more than fairy tales. That's the point I was trying to make. To answer your question...... Why do I (as a mormon) believe in eternal families and marriage? Because I believe the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the true church on the earth today. We have living prophets. The living prophets have said that eternal family is most important. More importantly I've sought the answer for myself. I have pondered it and prayed and gotten an answer. I am a child of god. Not just a creation but a child. Before we came we were (still are) a family. The grand counsel where the plan of salvation was presented wasn't with a god, it was with my father. I didn't leave the presence of "god" but I left home, i left my father. Once here, in a fallen state, with the imperfections and trials of this world I became in need of a savior and a god to direct my life, a supreme power. My view of father became that of a god, his role changed. So we call him that and worship him. You may not believe those things but the spirit speaks peace to me when I ponder them. I have received a witness from the holy spirit that it's true. I consider that pretty miraculous. Any time I've had a hard question I turn to that concept to answer it. It always fits because it's true. Even god turns to the concept of a family to get us to understand his words. The verses following the scripture I already posted he compares himself to a loving parent. That's enough for me. I could go into all the examples but it won't change your mind and would make this very very long. So is my testimony enough for you? Or do you desire to continue to question why or how I could believe? My statements are no different than yours. You have personal revelation that there is a god, personal experiences. I have personal revelation and experiences that family is eternal. It's that simple.

I chose to have a more subtle (compared to the world's standard) wedding dress that I used for my sealing and outside for pics. I also have my "everyday" temple dress that I used for my endowments and used for proxy work.

It is relevant "who" rebukes. If you are asking for correction that is totally different than coming here to correct us. I don't go to the local church's anti mormon classes and rebuke them. If that is what they want to do with the time they set aside to worship god then they will have to address that with him at another time. Not my problem. So yes if you came here to "rebuke" us for our beliefs it does matter. I have no desire to have discussions with such ppl. As for what I put in bold. If one has faith and they stand for that testimony you believe they should be able to "fully back" that position? How? Isn't that part of the definition of faith? A belief in something you can not prove. So how exactly would you like me to "back" my position without simply sharing testimony that I know it to be a true principle and going about my business? I can explain some of the logic of why I believe what I do but in the end I don't believe it because of logic or proof. I believe because of the witness of the spirit, something that is to each their own, I can't give it to you nor you to me. How do you back your position that there is a god? In the end you decide that you will either attack and try to prove my statements wrong or you accept them as my truth just as you have your personal truths that you can prove nor disprove any better than I can mine. In accepting that you can have a civil christian discussion that allows us to better understand and accept each other. Build upon our similarities and learn form the differences. Doesn't mean you have to accept it as a personal belief. I wouldn't want you to unless you also received a witness of what I say through the spirit. So again I ask, Why are you here? Do you want to understand (part of that accepting and taking someone at their word) or do you want to rebuke?

When reading the op I can't get past a few things to be able to even attempt to "discuss" this subject I totally agree, what does that mean? I've never heard it or used it so I'm not sure where it comes from in "further understanding of the mormon faith". I don't know anyone that would use that phrase. And it's been put in quotes as though that is LDS specific phrasing. Just weird. The sealing keys come through Elijah not Peter (not saying Peter didn't have them but he is not the one that restored them in this dispensation) If you have already decided what I can and can't rightfully in my heart and mind believe then what is the point in this discussion? It's not for understanding. So why are you here? and lastly Why end with this scripture? Are you asking that we rebuke you with all authority or is that what you feel you are doing with us?Eternal families and our relationship with god is the foundation of my testimony and the foundation of this church. I can say rightfully in my heart and mind that is the answer to almost every question I've ever had. When I can't understand something I apply it to an eternal family relationship and it all starts to become more clear. I could go on and on about this subject but I won't at this time. On that note I'll conclude with a scripture of my own. Matt. 7:6-8

I was endowed several weeks before the sealing and I would suggest that, especially if there is travel involved in going to the temple. I know it's a lot of extra expense but a first time going to the temple can take awhile. If the clothing center (assuming they even have one where you go and you didn't have to order garments unseen off the internet) is closed when you come out you have no way of exchanging the wrong size garments that day. That was the case for me, even going smaller in size they were huge. I had to return by mail and it took some time to get proper fitting garments. I would have been devastated to have to be married and leave on my honeymoon with the ones I had the day I walked out. It's also good to have time to process your endowment separate from the sealing. I think we often forget they are 2 separate ordinances. As for the dress she really does need to talk to the temple. Some will allow for more if it's a marriage only than when you are doing normal proxy work. Some temples have also had to tighten the rules because of ppl trying to push the limit. The basic standard leaves a lot of room for a very nice wedding dress.

Unfortunately there is no quick reference easy answer for your friend on this. It's something I have learned because I've struggled over the same questions. It comes from searching and pondering over the basics... trying to gain understanding of the nature of god, covenants vs promises, justice vs mercy, what being sealed means, understanding marriage, etc. It's been awhile so I had to look back at the previous posts.... the statement I was responding to (though I didn't quote it in my response lol).... some bold added... my thoughts to that.... The situation classylady proposed isn't unthinkable. In my opinion I don't see the odds being to great of it happening. In fact I used to think that of my parents. They had a horrible marriage. I was aware of that fact most of my life. I used to think, "if they can just stay married, endure to the end.. one day, on the other side, they will be perfected. They will love each other again and things will be fine because it will be a marriage between perfect ppl, not like here...." A little different situation but I think the same idea as classylady. In trying to explain my thinking it will probably get long and I probably won't do the best job. I can promise I will jump around. So I will apologize in advance for it. lol First you need to consider what builds a strong marriage. What makes anything strong? Why did we come here? For opposition. Adversity builds strength. It weeds out the week and leaves only the strong. That's the test of this life, to do what is right in the face of opposition. Talk to any older couple that has been married to the same person over half their life what makes them survive, who they are.... it's having overcome together. What is the crowning ordinance of the gospel? What is the crowning glory of exaltation? What is the one thing that we strive for? We want to be like god, we want all he has. The sealing is what sets that apart. Marriage is the one thing the exalted will have that no other will get. That is the ultimate goal. Only the elect will receive that glory. Only the strongest will be there. How do you weed out and find the strongest, the best of the best, the most righteous, etc? Opposition. Marriage is hard, it has to be. Only those who can survive and do it with Christlike love toward each other will make it. Just staying (as I thought with my parents) isn't enough. Going to the temple isn't enough. You must live a covenant marriage. Divorce does not count as living a covenant marriage. You may be forgiven of the sins committed but that does not change that you did not go through this life, through opposition together. You didn't get strong, you didn't become one, you didn't learn Christlike love for each other. That is not a relationship that will earn eternity (not as one that receives the preferential treatment of a "first wife" in the context we have been using it). God is just. Justice demands that if you didn't keep your first estate you can not have the second. So if you have a man that was sealed, divorced, and sealed again. The second wife is the one that became strong with him, the one that survived the opposition, etc. No just God would give the "wife" that bailed and abandoned him preferential treatment over the second. Thus my comment of if that is really what my husband and his ex wanted I'd be out the door. If the cruel things she did became of greater value than my standing at his side come hell or high water then I don't want to be with him. I also doubt such attitudes would make any of us worthy of an eternal marriage. The judgement will happen. Justice will rule. The person that stood at your side and you struggled with will be the one there. That is your eternal partner if you are both worthy. Surviving opposition is what makes you as one, being with that person first and foremost is just. It serves justice. God is also merciful. He has promised after all you can do. If you do the best you can, repent, etc and in the end are found worthy of an eternal partner you will have that opportunity. That is a promise (which brings in classylady's proposed situation). Mercy can not rob justice. If it is decided that you will be with the one you "already had a sealing with" then that will be up to the couple, the two that became as one. Mercy and justice can and will co exist, we have been promised that. If it didn't the atonement would have been in vain. I know I haven't done a good job communicating my thoughts that build up to the comment I made. I find most my answers when I take the basic principles of the gospel and then ask myself how they apply to the situation that is being struggled with.... Do they fit in the basics? Is justice served? Is mercy served? Does that answer fit with what I know of god? Does the spirit speak peace when I ponder it? Sorry I can't give you something more simple. lol

I was in my teens when I started learning about my mom's abusive past. I learned more and more over years worth of conversations. Yes it's hard to hear but I think those are things what when you become an adult you need to start learning to talk about them like adults. It's important to understanding your family and in some ways yourself. It's also good to know family history, addictions, mental illness, etc. It doesn't sound like your grandmother used the best method but really how do you bring such things up. I think she is just seeing you are becoming an adult and might be time you learn these things.

lol posted by a friend on fb..... time for me to listen to the whisperings around me? I'll go in next week and talk to the director of the library face to face and then let it go. I have better things to do with my time.... like prepare my lessons for temple prep class. :)

lol not sure if I should laugh or thank that post.

That's why I didn't actually want to read them, just show up for the discussion. Not be antagonistic or defensive. Not even overly participate. Be a "shy participant" so to speak and then if the conversation goes in way off directions then I can give my thoughts on what is being said. As I've said, this woman has a right to share her story. What is offensive is that she is sharing her story as though it's also my story and I need saving. I have been honest in my struggles and doubts in the past, some recent past. I think I've come a long way and am much stronger now. I was called last Sunday as the temple prep teacher. I don't need to be playing with garbage (A test from God vs temptation from satan? lol). Just thinking being there as a first hand person that has experienced Mormonism and can give additional perspective they didn't get in the book might be helpful. I think I may go in and personally talk to the director of the library before the first book is read. I spoke with my neighbors about it. They are very strong and faithful ppl but not lds. We have a lot of the same perspective on god though. Always have fun conversations. He said he would "take it as sign from god that he doesn't need to socialize with those ppl. Make a formal complaint and let it go." So I asked him something like "what about denying god's name? Isn't that condemned? Should I be standing up for my testimony with this kind of thing?" He paused a moment and then gave me an interesting perspective. He said (not an exact quote lol), "If you were already part of the group. These were ppl you already knew and then these books came up. If they didn't already know your faith then it's time to stand up and speak. Don't deny your god. But that's not the case. This is a group you were thinking about joining. You are looking to become part of something that clearly doesn't want you. Not sure you will gain much by infiltrating."

I asked my stake pres and branch pres about it. My stake pres said "Sounds like someone has a pretty strong bias. I've found the best way to alter opinions is through friendship. Good luck" Bp was about the same. lol Called the library, there was a panel of 3 ppl that choose the books. One of those ppl being the director of the library. I first asked if ppl could suggest books and she said yes. After I expressed concern for 2 books being against a particular group she changed her tune, just a little, still polite. Then she said the books were chosen because those are books the patrons of the library are reading, suggested or other book clubs were reading. And without my asking made it clear the list would not be changed over one complaint. I said "I'm not asking you to change it. I just want to understand how these books are chosen and why it's ok to show such bias against any group. It bothers me when I see that as a focus. I would feel the same if it were books against Muslim, blacks, anyone. Is that the image we want for our library?" Her response was that it's an informal group, if you don't want to read a book don't come. The library isn't endorsing anything. "But it's the library's book club isn't it?" "Yes but like I said it's an informal group and you don't have to come. If it's the books I think you are talking about they are true stories" true stories doesn't make them bigoted? Sigh. Only one is true and the other is someone's experience not a representation of an entire group. What bothers me about it is the fact that this one woman didn't just tell her story as her experience, she is also co founder of an anti group (insinuating it's everyone's story). I guess I'm going to book club. Is it bad to show up and observe (only actively participate if needed) the discussion if you didn't read the book? lol

We are a very small town. Not something an LDS here would do.... and if they did I would know who did it because I know them all. lol I know several of the church's here do anti classes once a year. I'm guessing who ever made the list has read them before as part of that and thought they were good books. The difference is one is a church that has the right to endorse particulars of faith or to not endorse them. I'd never go into their church and complain. But this is the public library, different ball game. They have only announced 6 months of books. 2 are anti, 1 is the boy who went to heaven (which might be fun to read), 1 is fictional about a woman that is kidnapped and has a baby by her captor, and the other 2 are fictional murder mysteries.

I would not suggest juvie until after he had compleated a rehab. How you go about getting him into a center is another story. There are several options. Would be best if mom and dad insisted and he went on his own. You could attempt to have the courts force it on him by giving the choice of that or juvie. I hold family as the most important thing and would not say to disown him so to speak but at the same time you have an obligation to your immediate family. He would not be allowed in my home or to be alone with my children until he had done some kind of program and showed progress.

I figure my options are..... leave it alone and don't think anything else about it. start going now, read the first 2 books, build a repore and then when the anti books come up I might be able to be a voice of the other view of things. Go to the head of the library, who I know fairly well, and ask for more info. Who picks the books, why those two, etc. Leave a polite complaint, possibly getting the list changed. Outcomes of those options.... they sit around and believe the lies and feed eachother in thinking such talk is ok. might actually get them to see things differently. or they get angry and it turns ugly and I end up leaving anyway. They complain that some mormon got the list changed without even joining the group. feeds their fodder and they decide they must be right because there is "something there I don't want them to know". I'm sure there are other options but those come to my mind first. lol I guess what bothers me most is this is my public library, the one I take my kids to story time at, we did the summer reading program, etc. If their church wants to hold anti classes then that is their right, have fun. If they were doing a religious study and one month was about the baptist church written by a baptist and another was about muslim written by a muslim and another lds by an lds. sounds fun. I know they would not be ok with a book by someone from the kkk explaining why dark skin is really inferior. Or something that attacked any other christian religion. Or a book that used the bible to prove why women are subserviant to men. It's just fun to see ppl pick and choose their bigotry.

we don't have missionaries....

Ok so I took my daughter to the library today to get some books and saw a poster..... They are starting a book club to meet once a month. I thought "cool, might be something to consider to get out and meet some ppl".... Then I read the book list. November's book "Out of Mormonism: A Woman's True Story by Judy Robertson"so I came home and searched the book. Took me to a site to find that the book is written by one of the founders of "Concerned Christians: bringing the biblical Jesus to the Latter-Day Saints" January's book is "19th Wife by David Ebershoff " Which So what would you do? Things to keep in mind..... This is a very small town. I know many of the ladies at the library (some do know I'm LDS). I've never attended this book club before so I don't know how many ppl come, what they usually discuss, or how the books are picked.