Gwen

While a lot of the activities are scout related the church also has activities. If he is not registered he will not be able to attend the scout camps and summer camps and such (but it sounds as though he doesn't want to anyway).... for those activities insurance is part of the registration process. However, temple trips, mid week activities (though sometimes scout related are not "scout" activities - the yw are also in the building doing activities and they are not registered), youth conf. etc are priesthood activities. The church has their own insurance (and their own permission slips) for those activities and have nothing to do with scouts. Scouts is the "activity" arm.... something to base activities around not the point or the purpose of the priesthood or the ym's program. I would go back to the bishop and discuss this again. Did they also say something to your son? Is that discouraging him from attending the activities? If they did then I might insist the bishop speak to the ppl that have the issue and insist they apologize to your son and invite him back. It's thoughtless words like this that have pushed youth out of the church in the past and there is no place for it in the gospel. Oh FYI (in case you didn't already know) the Duty to God is something he may still participate in if he is not doing scouts and as a parent I would encourage it. Yes it also serves to qualify ym for their religious patch in scouts but it is not only for that. If you look in the book at the program there are specific ones that have to be done for the scouts but there are a lot of options that are not scout related and he can earn that award without scouts.

I don't know if the kindle allows for it but my nook will let me transfer pdf files from my pc. If the kindle also allows you to do this then you can go to the church website and download a pdf of that book (as well as other lesson manuals and ensign, etc) then transfer it. I've done that and it's worked out very well for me.

We don't have all the facts of what this girl's life is like. We get one view here. Assuming it is accurate this is my opinion on the situation. I didn't take his video as an emotional reaction. Was he emotional? yes, who wouldn't be after being insulted that way by your child? However, there is a difference in reacting emotionally (as in no thought for what you are doing) and expressing emotion in the reaction. He seemed to have really thought out what he was going to say and made sure he didn't do it in the presence of his child (which I agree is a problem and would have seen as a threat to the child like "you're next"). He made a point, he made sure she understood how much she hurt her parents, he taught a lesson. He seemed very collected and thought out to me, having done it in a safe way. On that note I don't agree with how he went about it. I would not have done what he did. But I agree with his intention and what he was trying to teach her. I would rather see more parents teaching the lessons (even if I don't agree with their methods) than what we have now with parents not teaching the lessons. So I support what appeared to be happening in the video more than I'm against it.

If you show up for the sealing only then you where normal church clothes. Here I have seen them ask you to change into your slippers or put booties over your shoes to prevent tracking dirt but that may be a temple decision.

If it's the father I wish the groom luck.... that kind of thing will never end. He needs to sit down with the bride and have a long talk about the boundaries. If they are on the same page they had better step up right now and make sure dad understands them, it will only get harder after the wedding.

Very interesting.

I have a different perspective.... though I don't disagree with much of what has been said already. Our branch just combined with one about 30 min from us. This branch has a lot of very new members that have a lot to learn about the church and they were allowed to create some bad habits in the more dependent branch. One of their their bad habits is eating constantly the entire 3 hrs, including fast sunday, and leaving their trash and crumbs all over the place for others to clean up. Sometimes they even leave and walk next door to the fast food place and bring food back. For me the internal argument goes something like this.... It's disruptive and irreverent so something should be said.... if you say something it might offend them and they are already struggling having had their branch closed so we don't want to make them feel unwelcome.... but.... why should we keep cleaning up after them and allowing them to be dependent... this goes deeper than food it's about helping them progress in the gospel.... if they can't even go 3 hrs without food how will they ever learn the self discipline required to fast?..... if we don't say something we are robbing them of the blessings of growing in the gospel..... but it's none of my business who does and does not fast, that is up to them to desire to progress.... on the other hand it's really hard to teach my kids to fast if there are ppl behind them smacking and chomping on chips and soda..... good opportunity to teach my kids how to ignore some things?..... but then again what about the members growth opportunities? And it goes on and on, as you can see I can make a case for either approach. My opinion, someone further up the line of authority needs to do a lesson or announcement to make 2 requests. 1) no food during sacrament meeting. 2) No food in the building on fast Sunday. You don't have to fast but respect those who are by not bringing food in. Once those 2 things can be done without to much fuss then add another request and another until things are where they ought to be. But then I'm not in charge so..... I've shared my opinion and it's turned over to the branch pres. lol

I agree with pam you need to talk to your bishop. The good news, I'm pretty sure the ultimate sin is cold blooded murder or denying the HG so you can fix this. In my opinion one thing you will need to sort out in the repentance process is the why. Was it just sexual experimentation or do you have homosexual feelings? That will be important in knowing where to go from here.

I used to feel that way, circumcision no big deal and ear piercing to be senseless.... but I had never put them in the same line of thought, they were two separate things. Once I did I saw how hypocritical and illogical that was. It's not ok to put a small hole in my daughters ears, a hole that does not remove nerve endings and does not change the function of her ears... but it's ok to remove thousands of nerve endings and change the function of my son's genitals?????? Not my best expression of my intelligence or my proudest moment. But that's just how I felt about it.

I hate to say this but I agree entirely with vort on the above post. That was going to be my reply to your question carli. I understand and agree that the damage has been done and there is nothing I can do to give that gift to my sons. But when the time is right, I can discuss my decision and my later education with my sons and their wife and let them make the informed decision I didn't make. If they still choose to do it then that is their choice and I can rest at night knowing they knew what they were doing. My hope is that they will break the cycle and make a better decision than I did. Either way it's an informed one which is the only gift I can give them at this point. My comments here aren't to condemn anyone (if I did I would be condemning myself), or to tell anyone what to do. My comments are to get folks thinking to do the research and be educated. It's not about judgment but informed decisions. Knowledge is the power.

If you are born without arms, you've never had arms, you learn to function without arms and you have no concept of what it would be like to have arms then I guess you really wouldn't be missing out on anything. If you live in constant pain and you learn to function in spite of that pain and that is your every day life and you have no idea what it's like to live without pain then I guess it's really no big deal and there is no need to make sure your children don't have to live with the same pain. I'm not saying life doesn't go on and one can't function without it, I'm saying there is a function and you just might function better with it. Educate yourself on the function and then make an informed decision on what you think is best for your child. I'm sure there are occasions where it is the better choice (one was already mentioned with folks with mental delays). However, one of the things I've been learning is that a lot of the major "issues" couples have to learn to work out when it comes to sexual relations are drastically reduced for couples where the man has not been circumcised. The issues are created because of the circumcision. It's not that couples can't figure things out and have a very satisfying sex life but is it possible that it could be better? If you could give that gift to your children would you?

The foreskin has a function. It's good to know the function of something and weigh the pros and cons before removal. I had my sons circumcised out of cultural traditions and didn't do the research. Now that I know there is a function and what it is I do regret my decision. Mostly I regret not getting educated before making the decision. I don't think anyone should have the choice taken away from them and I don't judge anyone for their choice. What I do think is wrong is lack of true informed consent (you have to understand the options before you can make an informed decision). If I were going to advocate for something it would be education.

If I were the groom I would be reconsidering the woman I was about to marry. Sounds like a good time for a "first fight" if they haven't had one. He'll find out real fast just how well she compromises.

Though I agree with what you are saying I am often left with the impression that the question is less about "I want to be careful so I need to know what will get me banned" and more about "I'm nosy and want the gossip". They can read the rules and they did claim that they did before joining the site so their question about how to stick around is already answered. But then maybe I'm being to judgmental. lol

My brother in law is a tech geek and he thought the nook was better than the kindle. That's the biggest reason I went with it. lol But I know everyone has their own opinion. If I recall correctly his biggest issues he had with it were with the kindle you can only get amazon books, they have their own formatting, where the nook uses an open source format. Though I will admit to not understanding all of that. The nook also has more internal memory and doesn't rely on the cloud storage (I think that's what it was called). I prefer that because I rarely have wireless access. When I have access I buy what I want and it's all there when I leave, no having to shuffle with the could storage. I tend to shop the apps and books I want from my pc, make a list and then buy them up when I have wireless access. I don't know how much of this the kindle also does but these are the things I do with the nook that I enjoy. Saving pdf's. Just last night I downloaded a handful of the church books (teachings of the prophets book, daughters of my kingdom, the ensigns for this yr and the last conference issue, etc) to my pc and then copied it to my nook. Now I can lighten my church bag, yay. There are several scripture options but I've not decided which I want yet so... There is an expansion card for additional memory but I've not had to use to yet. I also have several word documents copied onto to it so I can have it anywhere (Patriarchal blessing and such). I also copy a lot of my favorite crochet patterns to my nook so when I'm out I can crochet without the extra load or if I find a good deal on yarn I can look up the pattern I'm wanting to make and see how much I need to buy. lol I also have a lot of apps for the kids to play with. My 3 yr old loved it so much I had to get her one of those preschool e-readers so she would give me mine back. lol Oh and the latest family pics are on it. I'm enjoying my purchase. lol

I purchased a nook tablet over the kindle. I like it.

I don't know, some ppl need a good smack upside the head. There was a ym that I worked with and his teacher publicly called him a failure. She told him he didn't have to do the homework because he was just going to fail anyway. So he was refusing to do the work. If he refuses to do the work then she wins and is proven right to the entire class. If he does the work and shines then he can flaunt that to the class and his teacher is shown to be the dope that she was. The choice was his. And yes I did explain it to him that way (with the caution that he can't call his teacher a dope) and yes I know most educators would be very upset about it. lol But guess what, he did the work and he did great just like I knew he could. It didn't change the teacher but it did change him. He now knew she was wrong, she didn't have the power to define him anymore. My point and I know it sounds simple and overused but this isn't any different, if you stop going to church he wins. And worse the church loses. With no one there to counter it he becomes the representation of the church. What idea do visitors walk away with? If the decent ppl don't stay then how will anyone know there are decent ppl in the church? Don't let the idiots define you.... or me for that matter. You have a right to be there and you have a right to not be a victim, which sometimes means coming back with snide comments of your own when necessary. A physical altercation probably isn't a good idea. Summery, I think I agree with your wife. lol

What did the bishop or stake pres say about the situation? If you haven't actually informed either about the situation then that's where I would start. I would also be inclined to not sustain him at the next ward conference if something hadn't been resolved. When they ask you to sustain local leadership I would raise my hand and oppose the sustaining of him (even if he is included in a group of ppl). That will promise you an audience with the stake pres where you can explain why you can not sustain this person. In the meantime I would keep going to church and do my best to ignore him. Maybe come up with a few clever comments for when he insists on getting in your business. Maybe not the most christ like but it does help to tolerate ppl like that. Always keep in mind that he is not your religion or your church, he happens to be there. Don't let him define you or your testimony, your kids will learn more from that than anything.

I'm glad that you made sure it could be transferred because that was going to be my first comment. lol Everything we have/are saving is in a general earmark way "mission" "education". It's not toward any specific child, those who want to take advantage of it will have access to it through us. It is not their money, it's ours and we are saving it to help them with specific life events. We don't have a will. We do have insurance policies and a person has to be named to take care of things should we both die. We named our kids to get the money but also then had to name someone to be executor if they are under 18. I may be naive but I'm assuming because we don't have a will they would turn the kids over to the family that has been named executor.... we obviously already put a lot of trust in that person and have "approved" them to look out for the kids futures. As for how you bring up the topic my sister is the one named. I just called her up one day and said "I have a really big question to ask you" I explained what papers we were filling out and why we wanted to list her. I let her know that I didn't expect her to take in all our kids (she was single at the time and we had 4 kids lol) but that I trusted her to make the hard decisions that would get the kids taken care of and still keep them close. She knows how we are raising them and I trust she would respect our wishes. Then I just asked "Is that ok if we put you down in that role?" It does seem weird to just call up and ask that kind of thing but it strangely casual. lol

If there are enough ppl with the issue you could have one specific tray just for them.

Not everyone thinks circumcised is more attractive. It is what ppl are accustomed to but not necessarily better or worse. That is strictly appearance. However, if you look into the subject you will find that many think harm is done and it is not a benefit. There are a lot of nerve endings in the skin that is removed that do change the function of the penis. I won't go into more here but if you are interested in taking an educated look at the subject I can provide you with some links that explain exactly what the function of the foreskin is and the consequences of removing it. I will warn you they are very explicit and educational resources that are not shy about the subject.

I would be cautious of sharing to much of your feelings prior to leaving, especially if you are sure she feels the same. Could cause some temptation over the next 5 months. 5 months is longer than you realize and a lot can happen. I would not start dating more seriously at this point. I would remain friends, talk about your mission and keep things as they are. Just before you are scheduled to leave, like week of, I would tell her (or write her a letter) explaining that you still have feelings for her that may be "more than friends" and if appropriate when you return you would like to date more seriously. She will not feel pressured to say or do anything with this new information because you are leaving so soon, it will prevent some of the awkwardness or temptation. There will be a lot of time to ponder it and both of you to grow over the next 2 yrs. See where things stand when you get home.

Once the building is torn down I would assume it's declared dead and she is free to move on from the "marriage"..... or maybe she can collect life insurance upon it's death.... or they can bill her for the "burial" costs and she can foot the demolition bill. oh so complicated.

I think others are giving you some good advise so I'll keep my comment to a side note..... Do everything you can to encourage him to attend the Gladys Knight fireside with his mom. I've been to one and it is amazing. If I ever get another chance to attend one I will bring all the kids I can with me (I think they put an age limit on it last time).

Just for fun.... gonna rewrite a few of the quotes about the societal dangers. Not so much to show that I agree or disagree with the premise in relation to polygamy but it really was just the first thing that came to my mind as I was reading it. lol Marriage reduces crime. In a society of divorce it creates large numbers of unmarried men, whose presence is correlated with increased crime. The problem with unmarried men appears to come primarily from their lack of investment in the family life and in children. Young men without futures tend to engage in riskier behaviors because they have less to lose. Divorced households foster jealousy and conflict among ex-wives and step children.... reveals no case where ex-wife relations could be described as harmonious. Some suspect that divorce may discourage paternal investment. Men with lots of children and ex-wives are spread too thin, and to make things worse, they're compiling resources to pay for their past wives (or look for the next wife) instead of using it on their existing families. Divorce may actually exacerbate inequities in wealth and gender and hurt societies, even if the institution itself appears neutral. Crime and chaos are threatening.