Gwen

Are you looking for a specific area? What kind of work will your husband be looking for when you get here? There are a lot of factors to consider when looking for a place to establish roots. Everyone here will most likely be biased to where they live. lol And on that note I prefer small branches in Alabama. You will have lots of opportunity to serve the lord and develop a working testimony of the gospel.

I remember reading in a magazine yrs ago about a woman that was purchasing her soon to be husband's ring and the jeweler asked if she wanted something engraved inside. She hadn't thought about it so she asked the jeweler what kinds of things ppl put in the rings and he told her "whatever you want him to think about when he looks inside his ring". She went with "put it back on". Having something pressing into the skin so that it leaves a mark like that hurts and isn't healthy for the skin. I'd be more likely to take it off if it were irritating my finger like that. I'm assuming they also make an equivalent ring for the woman? We wouldn't want to be sexist.

My comments were more for the op in what to do about other ppl's children. Rarely should you discipline a child that is not yours, however you are always welcome to compliment them. I have no issues with what you outlined for your own child. I'm in a branch where we have no foyer, mother's room, etc. Even if you leave the room everyone can hear you. The few other children at church come from families that are very new and to be blunt have few parenting skills as it is. They take the kids out and things are more disruptive than they were in the chapel. One time you could hear the mother spanking the child (I'm not totally against spanking but this got me ruffled). Everyone was looking around no one knew what to do. It gets to this point out of exhaustion, frustration and not knowing better. I've found that if I just offer to take the kid out for them then I can help teach the kid, parents get to stay in and get taught and reverence is maintained. I frequently have children sitting with me that are not my own.

I know I already said this but in case it got lost in my long post. lol I'm a big supporter of positive reinforcement as the only way to go. Bring a treat for after church and only for those that were good as a thank you. Not only will it change the behavior of others it will change your focus during the meeting. Look for the good, ignore the rest.

It would upset me. I intentionally don't bring a lot of stuff for my kids to play with and no snacks. Maybe it sounds mean but I've always gotten compliments on my kids behavior at church and even my 4 yr old sits reverently for sacrament. There were RS sisters that would give my kids candy while I was trying to teach them to be quiet. I finally asked in RS that they not do that. In effect they were rewarding bad behavior. However, I didn't mind them bringing a little something and making church a treat for the kids, so if they would like to give them something after church if they were reverent in sacrament meeting then I was ok with that. They reacted very well to that. Every Sunday the kids knew who had the treats and then the sister would say "go ask your mom if you were reverent" and the kids would have to get my permission first. Then the sisters took it a step further and stopped bringing treats on fast Sunday to further teach them, I loved that. Then our branch combined with another and a lot of ppl from that branch eat the entire 3 hrs and pass out food. It was a rough transition. Instead of correcting them like I did before (because my kids are older now) I talked to the kids about saying no or asking "can you hold it until after church?". That went over amazingly well. I had a couple of sisters come to me about how my kids politely corrected them about food in church. The eating still goes on but not near as bad as before. We have more kids in the branch than we did before. My kids are self monitored well enough that I will take other ppl's kids out for them so they can enjoy the meeting. One thing that happened recently that made me proud is a sister brought her grand-daughter that was about 4 yrs old. My 4 yr old went to her before church and they were talking, my daughter asked if she could sit with her. I said "only if you can show her how to be reverent". She sat with her and they were sooo reverent. Then later grandma came to me and said that her grand-daughter didn't want to go to primary and was scared when she got there but my daughter being so kind to her really changed things and she went to primary and had a lot of fun. She is hoping she will come again. If you really want to change things bring a bag of candy. Ask the parents before if you may reward kids you see being reverent after church with one piece. Then watch the meeting for the good kids, make a note of who they are and then after church go to them and say "I saw you being sooo reverent during sacrament. Thank you" and give them the candy. I promise you word will get around and you will have a better result than bringing treats for the noisy ones.

except the sealed baby is raised without the knowledge of the sealing or the opportunity to claim the blessings of that sealing. Growing up not knowing about the fullness of the gospel doesn't count as getting lucky.

Everyone will have to be sealed, that is why we do proxy work in the temple, that is why there will be a period where the veil is lifted and work will be done in conjunction with the other side. There are a lot of ppl that have lived and died and there is no record of them and was no chance to receive the saving ordinances. There is a time set out for them to come to us (us being those who are worthy and still here) and say "hey, this is me, this is when/where/etc i lived, please do my work". So yes a time would come when the family would know they had the wrong child and they would be able to take care of the sealing at that time.

Part of it is understanding the sealing covenant. The point isn't to seal you to your earthly family, though it does and it's important, the main focus is to seal you back to heavenly father. If heavenly father is the focus then it really doesn't matter who you are sealed to, just so long as you are. No one "gets the baby" for eternity. We are one big family, all heavenly father's children. That is the goal of the sealing covenant. In the eternities we will all be adults, hopefully living like father in exaltation having our own families. When looking at the sealing and eternal families we don't need to look at it as we do now with our young children living in our house raising our kids. We need to look at it like we do our siblings, as adults, all living our own life connected through the emotional bonds of family. "The baby" will be an adult (your sibling not child) with their own family, not a possession. They will be sealed to heavenly father and we will have relationships with each other based on experiences in this life.

If you are in a predominantly lds area then I suggest you find a branch somewhere to call home for awhile. Volunteer for assignments as much as you can and really get involved. You will start to see the scriptures and the gospel differently.

A note on the debate on how the church handles it (with Mahone and KirtlandSaintinZion). Mahone is correct on the church policy. The records are annotated and that person is not allowed to hold callings with kids. However, there is a secondary policy in place where if one feels that annotation is unfair (like in a situation like KirtlandSaintinZion described) then they can apply to the first presidency to have that annotation (and restriction) removed from their records. The first presidency reviews information like church callings and service since the time of the event, repentance, etc. They rely heavily on the stake presidency (the stake pres has to submit the application for annotation removal) and bishops opinion for that. They also have church lawyers review the case. All legal action that was taken, the details of the offense, and any other records (legally or otherwise; like psyc evals) that the person thinks is relevant to the request. The lawyers give the first presidency their recommendation based on the legal risks the church would be taking if it were removed. Then the first presidency makes a decision.

Eowyn had a great response for you. Not sure I can do better but so you don't have only one response to a thread that is a cry for help and to know that there are more in the world that have been where you are..... What medications have you tried? They all have different side effects. Lexapro worked great for me when I was suffering from postpartum depression. It is very hard. Recognizing it is the most important and sometimes the hardest part. I didn't realize how bad mine was for a very long time. I knew I wasn't functioning like I should but just didn't see it. It was around 6 months when I had an experience that opened my eyes and sent me to the dr. It's not my proudest moment and I still sometimes feel guilty over it. I find myself questioning the damage the whole situation may have done that I'll never know. But getting caught up in all that keeps me from being here, now. Which is what my kids need. When I get caught up in those thoughts I try to remind myself that it's in Heavenly Father's hands, it was a long time ago, they were his kids first, he will take care of them. For all I know he gave me that experience to wake me up and seek out help before I did something that would cause real long term damage. Remember that babies at that age have very short term memories and they are very forgiving. Get the help you need to be there now. What you do from today forward can make up for a lot of mistakes in the past. No mom has it all together. If it looks like it from where you stand it just means that there is a lot you can't/don't see. I've had 5 and have ppl ask me all the time how I do it. I don't have it all together. I just don't stop. I try to do better today than I did yesterday. I know when to keep my personal business private and keep putting one foot in front of the other.

I would be very upset if a dr dropped such a question on me. A dr of all ppl ought to know what the hormones of having a child does to woman. He should have asked you about that in one of your appointments when you discussed c-section, given you time to ponder it.

Yawning doesn't show unrepentant or disinterest or anything else. Ppl yawn because their breathing becomes shallow, the body gets deprived of oxygen and so you reflexively yawn to get a nice large dose of oxygen into the system. This can happen when you are tired or bored.... it also happens when you are very intently listening to someone. You become so focused on the information you are taking in that your breathing slows down so your body reacts by yawning. I'm not saying why this guy was yawning, I don't know the reason, just that yawning isn't a fair way to convict someone.

I would not make any permanent decisions on the heels of having a baby. Emotions, hormones, etc are all off balance.

The killer may not have known the offense, just that he was a registered sex offender. This is why many are against certain offenses being required to register as sex offenders.

One of my favorite stories (heard it as a youth, just summarizing what I remember from many yrs ago lol) is about a boy asking his dad what keeps his kite in the air. His father tells him the string. The boy replies something like "no dad, the string holds it down. I want to know what holds it up." So the dad tells him to let go of the string. The kite gets tossed around with the wind and crashes. The same is true for the commandments. What seems to be keeping us grounded is actually keeping us up. It keeps us from getting tossed around in the violent winds of the world that will send us crashing.

what bugged me about the story was it says she "collapsed". If she collapsed she should not have been crossing the finish line assisted or not. She needed medical attention. Where was the medical team for this girl and her safety? Like the story with the kid that was so dehydrated he kept falling. Everyone was so impressed he finished the race. Why? He should have been removed for medical attention. It's not impressive to do something potentially fatal. If she didn't collapse and she just fell then it's a great story. Great stories shouldn't need embellishing.

A side note on the being sealed to 2 living women. I know I've said this before. lol You can be sealed to two living women with the clearance that is granted after divorce, and that has already been mentioned. However, you have not kept your covenant to the first wife and therefore you have no claim upon those blessings. The sealing is useless and has no effect. So upon death you have no claim upon the blessing of eternal marriage and may as well not have been sealed at all. So in the claiming blessings department, no you are not sealed to more than one living woman at a time. The paperwork may exist but it means nothing and there is no covenant.

I'm not talking about wearing it as a reminder to others. I don't pick out what I wear for others (I also choose to look nice for me) but I do think it should look nice (be presentable) to others. Knowing I'm presentable is part of what makes me feel good about dressing up/looking nice. Who doesn't enjoy having someone say "I really like that necklace you are wearing"? If they look at me and see it may say something they shouldn't have to turn their head crazy to see what it is. They should be able to quickly say "CTR? what does that mean?" Can be a great missionary tool.

I face mine (when I wear it) out (right side up to others). I know what my jewelry looks like and it can be a reminder no matter the direction. Jewelry is intended for those looking at you. For example a necklace, when you pick it up and look down at it then it's upside down for you, it's intended to make you look nicer to those looking at you. Bracelets (that have a top and bottom) are the same way. Choosing the right is part of who I am. If I need a reminder I have a wedding band to remind me of covenants, I also have may garments. I wore mine this way before I had other reminders of my covenants as well. I don't "need" a ctr ring to be a reminder. I wear mine like other jewelry as something to make me look nicer, it's also a great conversation starter. If being used to share the gospel then it should be "right" to those looking at you. All that said lol it is my personal preference. I agree there is no right or wrong way to wear it, just like there is no "proper" finger to wear it on. It's about what you like in jewelry. If you do need it as a reminder (struggling with a bad habit or something) then I would say turn it for you.

In our branch we have some that will not accept callings. If they make comments no one hesitates to say "If you don't like it you are welcome to accept the call and do it yourself. If not then don't complain." I don't think it's uncharitable to tell the truth. There was a talk in conf. about contention. It was pretty good and may be used in lessons and talks until ppl get it. It must have been good we've already had 3 lessons/talks on it since conf. lol Hang in there, don't stop doing what you know is right because others won't do what is right. Oh and make the handbook your friend. If someone complains or wants to do something that is not appropriate then reference the handbook. The the first presidency be the "bad guy". lol

If you were not sealed by the proper authority (as pam was talking about) then yes they did stop being your husbands. Your affections for them and the emotional relationship you had with them did not stop at death but the authority that married you had no power beyond the grave. This is why we do work for our ancestors, it ties up lose ends so no one misses out on blessings they deserve. "Spend eternity with" and "be married to" are not the same meaning. We will spend eternity with many ppl that we knew from this life that we will not be sealed to. We will continue to know those we have relationships here with (spouses, parent/child, best friends, etc). We will know and remember each other. Only in exaltation is there a familial relationship (sealed as husband and wife and able to procreate). There will be many more there, living and knowing each other and happily spending eternity together that are not sealed and procreating. In this way we will "spend eternity with" our family and friends from this life. This has been an issue for many ppl, what kind of loving god would send us here to form these powerful familial bonds and then rip us apart in the next life? That sounds like the opposite of heaven. Some seek answers until they find the proper authority, some rationalize that we will totally forget this life (as an act of mercy), some just make up whatever they want to reconcile their beliefs with what they feel. But in the end most ppl that I talk to who have had strong positive familial relationships desire to be with them in the next life, that is a universal desire. It's not about pam's or anyone's opinion/translation of the scripture. What matters is how the prophet defines the scripture. I will not (nor can I) question your testimony of spending eternity with your husbands. This is really the answer. We don't understand it all but we have faith that a perfect, just, and merciful father (god) will make all right and we will have a fulness of joy in the next life. Part of being fully joyful is being with our families from this life. If we were real life friends I would suggest you research all you can on the sealing ordinance and the proper authority to bind on earth and heaven. I would encourage you to go to the temple (if you can't now then make it an earnest goal) often. Observe or participate in proxy sealings, really listen and pray to understand the ordinance. Also really pray about and understand the revelation you have received. Make sure you are hearing what you are being told and not what you wish it means. A side note about my last statement. I know off hand it can cause defensiveness so I'll share an example from my own life about doing this. Shortly after high school I met this RM and we started dating. Very early in the relationship I just knew we were meant to be together, I had received it in revelation. I had found "the one" and I was just going through the dating motions until that time came. Then in time he prayed about asking me to marry him and got a firm "no". That was an awkward break up. lol I was left very confused, why would the lord tell me yes (when I didn't even ask) and then tell him no? Then I started really looking at what I was told. I wasn't told he was "the one", I wasn't told we were going to get married. What I was told is that we were supposed to have a relationship (be together). From that relationship I learned things I don't know that I would have learned otherwise. I was supposed to date him. My friendship with him was a very important part of my growing up, growing in the gospel and learning to understand revelation. As strange as it may sound that experience has carried me through many other difficult times in my life (including finding the man I was supposed to marry). I wanted the revelation to say I was to marry him but what it really said was "pay attention, this is an important relationship for you". Back to you.... lol.... I can't interpret your revelation. I don't know you or your life story beyond what you have said here. I could be totally wrong in this but.... the tone of your post suggests to me that there is more to this. Is your current husband a member of the church? Have you been discussing getting sealed (or have been sealed but now have spent a lot of time wondering about the previous husbands)? From what you have said each of your husbands gave you something good, carried you along your path in life that allowed you to be where and who you are today. That makes them very cherished to you. It makes you very concerned for their salvation. Is it possible that the lord is giving you comfort that you will spend eternity with your husbands (they will in time accept the gospel and be taken care of with a fullness of joy) but not saying that they will be "your husbands" for eternity? Again I don't know your experiences and I could be totally wrong. I hope you don't feel the need to defend your testimony or cast your pearls before swine. I simply wanted to give you some food for thought based on what I read in your word choice. You may be exactly right in your understanding and though our current earthly policies don't lean toward what you are saying doesn't mean it won't be worked out in the end. Your revelation may be the lord telling you to be patient and all will be worked out in the end. Only you will know what the lord is telling you. Pray and then listen. I truly hope that I have not offended you with my assumptions and musings on what you have shared. In the end remember that we can have a fullness of joy and we have a just and merciful father. Consider yourself very blessed in this life to have met and been married to 3 men that obviously shaped you in wonderful ways, men that you desire to be with for eternity. Most consider themselves lucky to find one person that they care that deeply about. You are very blessed indeed.

I'm glad you were there for her. It's important to listen to the spirit and push through the walls others sometimes put up. Sometimes you never know how much something so little can mean. I've struggled with depression off and on. At some of my darker times I pushed ppl away. Sitting in church was always the hardest. I remember sundays when I would go outside because I couldn't handle it anymore. I would sit and cry and as much as I wanted to be alone I also deeply wanted to know I wasn't alone. I would have never gone looking for someone to talk to but if someone had asked, pushed just a little, I would have told them everything. I even remember one sunday pleading with HF to send someone looking for me. I wanted someone to notice I was missing and come find me, anyone, just to know that I wasn't forgotten. No one ever came.

So a child learns love, charity, acceptance, etc from their gay parents. They learn from "followers of christ" that they were better off in the foster system and never having a family just because it was 2 women. Do you really think it's the attitude of the parents that is keeping them from being open to learning about our beliefs? As for the law of chastity what they can teach is that sex is special, you don't give it away or sell it, you save it for that someone you want to have a family with, even for marriage. This couple is married, to my knowledge they are faithful and they respect each other. They can set an amazing example of what a relationship should be. They can set the foundation for this child to grow up into a well adjusted, honest, moral adult. A foundation that would leave them open to hearing the testimony of the gospel .... if those sharing that testimony haven't shot themselves in the foot by being uncharitable. Will it be easy to accept the gospel knowing your mothers have an eternal issue? probably not. No easier than it was for me when most of my family left the church. Yes it hurts to feel like you are losing a loved one. However, if you truly understand the gospel there is no reason to mourn, there is still hope. Yes parents are supposed to teach by example and teach good things. This isn't a perfect world. I would suggest that it wouldn't be any harder for this child to accept the gospel than the kid that grows up with mom and dad who argue and fight all the time, cheat on each other, substance abuse etc. Or the child that grows up in the church abused by the priesthood holder of the home (this one I know for a fact prevents acceptance of the gospel). Just like everything else in this life we are judged by what we did with what we knew. I would say the gay couple that teaches christ-like values in every other aspect of their life is better off at the judgment bar than the unrighteous dominion priesthood holder that drives his children away from the church. I don't think christ would be embarrassed by proclaiming his word. It's the judging and vilifying those that don't believe as you do, those that have not received a testimony, those that struggle with a very powerful temptation. Look at christ's example. The only sinners he dealt harshly with were the money changers in the temple. The ones who knew better and still defiled his house. Everyone else (even those despised by society) he had compassion and charity toward.

Be a friend, supportive, and non judgmental. From my experience this is how I got through it.... to quote another post where I talked about it. The full post is here http://www.lds.net/forums/marriage-relationship-advice/41166-would-do-more-damage-come-clean-8.html#post631700 I also think I had a couple of other good posts (about how someone that was once strong starts to doubt) on pg 7 of that thread. lol I would encourage him to do what I did. Hold onto what you once knew until the knowledge returns or you learn a greater truth. However, one big difference from what you describe in our situations is I didn't question if there was a god but if he really cared about me. I lost my trust in god.