The Folk Prophet

@Just_A_Guy Hey, look what a little research will do: "If ordinances for the deceased are completed out of sequence, they do not need to be performed again. They become effective when the prerequisite ordinances are completed." https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/28?lang=eng

I dunno. Maybe I'm wrong on the nulled and has to be redone side of things. But either way, I think, the comment from @laronius would imply that they are still applied as if in the correct order. I think there's going to be an awful lot of cases in an awful lot of things where we, as mortals, messed something up but God will accept it as if we didn't mess it up. But that's not really the question at hand I think, which is more whether the order of the ordinance path matters, and specifically whether baptism must come first. It's been shown that there are cases where baptism has come after other things. So that can happen. This much is certain. I am no expert on the matter. Just a loud mouthed know-it-all who injects his view as if factual by habit.

I think there may be some things you aren't aware of that I've been able to learn from some temple presidencies, etc., and various other sources. Mostly I cant talk about it because it directly deals with sacred temple things. I have no doubt circumstances change. Obviously. I'm not saying nothing changes. But I think the order is pretty darned important. It's called the covenant path for a reason. But I could be wrong. Like I said, "I think..." and "per my best understanding". Shrug. Doesn't really matter. I can say this much with absolute certainty. The order matters currently. Very much. If we find out someone did their endowment without having done initiatory the endowment is nulled and has to be redone.

FWIW, I think they are set in stone, and must be done in the correct order always. There's lots of reasons for that, many taught in the temple, per my best understanding.

I think you're partially right. But I think there's also, perhaps, more significance to some of the things (physically, etc.) than we might think. To understand these things (which I don't...but have had some insights), takes a lot of time and inspiration and etc., etc.

Easy: Good people = Good world Boom! Go do it!

I joked with my wife that if we ever move out of Utah she should get a "Mormon" related tattoo as a conversation starter and a missionary tool. She scowled at me.

This pretty much sums up about 90% of all Trump hatred. On almost every point made by those who dislike him it's about the same. Lies, upon lies, upon lies.

I think it's funny that people feel the need to throw this out all the time in speaking of how we react to any given thing. But it's such nonsense. Of COURSE sometimes violence is the answer. Obviously.

Um... breaking covenants is apostasy whether one encourages others to do so or not. Granted, encouraging others to do so makes it all worse. But still...the implication that if you just quietly go off and "do your thing" in rebellion against God that you're not in apostasy doesn't quite work.

Just based on the title of the thread and watching the trailer for it: The way I see it is: a bunch of women rebel against the church and its teachings and the consequence is that their lives are all ruined. Doesn't seem "designed to give the church a bad name", per se, even though the women are bad talking the church in the start of the trailer. But the consequence of their views and attitudes doesn't seem to be joy and peace. Not that I'm going to watch it. I have no interest in that sort of stuff. But I just thought while watching the trailer that it's a pretty primo example of what I see happen when people abandon the church and it's teachings. I've seen it directly with family and friends. They have good, wholesome lives, but complain about the church's restrictions and teachings, then determine they'll be happier if they leave, then within a few years...drinking, drugs, divorce, destruction, misery, pain and ruin. Which seems to be what happens here. Yep. Sounds about right. Granted, I don't know how the show will wrap up. In the end they will likely try to spin it like it was all for the good and they're all better off for their rebellion. Probably.

I think I could take him.

Consequences and "hell" are essentially synonymous. One doesn't need to believe in the so-called Christian idea of a burning lake of fire and brimstone to understand what it means to be in a state of hell. By saying "imagine there's no hell" the suggestion is to imagine if nothing hurts. No pain. No sorrow. No consequence. You don't fall down and break your neck and become a paraplegic, living your life in a new hell...no...imagine if that never happened... And as I said...it's a silly rubbish idea, whether one is an atheist or not. I mean I could be wrong. Maybe John Lennon only literally meant to imagine there was no Christian flaming lake of fire where the wicked go after death. 🤷‍♂️ But truth is. Generally, I'd say that theistic religious claims are truth claims though, and those who hold them believe them to be the arbiter of morality...because they believe them to be true. They are or they aren't. Really, your belief that @LDSGator would karate you into oblivion is a religious claim, when it comes right down to it. An expression of faith. But truth doesn't change based on claims. Which describe my problem with the song. Essentially, what it boils down to for me is, "Imagine that truth isn't true." Kumbaya. Let's all pretend. I mean it's a fine song if it isn't taken too seriously. As a real philosophical idea though, it's woefully lame.

Adherence to the idea that there's no heaven or God works on an individual level? Or the idea that there's no hell, hence no consequence for action? Of course it's easy to ignore God and think the wisdom of man has all the answers. But adherence to fantasy idealism doesn't really work on any level...individual or otherwise. Pretending there are no bad guys in the world won't magically makes them all disappear. The message in Imagine is pretty rubbish, imo.

It's not a saving ordinance. And it wouldn't anyhow. Even endowment sessions must abide by the law that we believe in honoring and obeying.

This. And these are the polls that matter. And they are all within the margin of error. T.D.S. much?

Not really. The averages of polling data have Harris and Trump within the margin of error too close to say. Anyone claiming that either candidate is likely to win is guessing at this point.

I'm legitimately confused by this comment. The polls, all together, are showing pretty much a dead heat. It's impossible to say who it looks like will win.

I did not say this.

Please don't call it my party.

To be fair, I mean no one should care about my opinion on whether Trump or Kamala would win. Not that no one should care about any of my opinions.

You're under the impression that Republicans were winning prior to Trump? Even if you take the Republican candidate "wins", they sure as heck haven't been winning on policy or conservative values. They've lost, and lost, and lost and lost. Republicans talk a lot...and then do little to nothing...except increase budgets and allow the culture to slide further to the left. The reality is, sadly, that the country is slowly sliding into decline. And returning to the way it was before Trump doesn't change that at all. The decline will continue. But...to be fair...it doesn't really matter. If the Trump-esqe type politics continue...we're doomed. If we return to "normal" Republicans running...we're doomed. And, of course, if the Democrats win anything ever...we're doomed. Yeah... I know... I've become a doomsayer. Because.... we're doomed. Politically speaking. The only hope, (and, blessedly, the sure hope), is in Christ. Until Christ returns, things will continue to get worse. Trump or no Trump. That being said.... the Republicans aren't returning to normal. And neither are the Democrats (who, in my opinion, have gone WAY further astray from what they once were than the MAGA influence had gone from what Republicans were). FWIW...if you care about my opinion, which of course, no one does, nor should they...but.... in my opinion.... As soon as Kamala debates Trump.... Well...it's going to be as bad for her as it was for Biden. She's less able to speak (off the cuff) than he was. And that's saying something.

Please...never! I'm not saying that in relationship to Trump. Just....no.

His arrogance is off-putting to me.

The home page is terribly annoying. Of course that sort of sums up the things that seem to appeal to the TikTok generation. Terribly annoying.