Jane_Doe

That's a new one to me!

Its not as strange as people seem to make it out to be.

As a people or as a faith? My best friend growing up was Catholic. I went to her confirmation, her brother's wedding, Stations of the Cross every year, youth group, mass, etc. I considered her house a second home. I found that Catholics are very varied in their personalities and in their faith, so I can't make any blanket judgments.

You've got a pretty good grasp on it :) (not an easy thing to do) The above analogy is limited, as you pointed out. This one is limited because your Earthly dad is imperfect. Can you imagine if he was perfect? Claire, why do you worship God? And what do you mean by "worship"? I define "worship" as giving my highest respect, admiration, praises, listening to their words, and wanting to be like that person. I worship God because He is Perfectly loving, just, merciful, kind, knowing, patient, etc. I don't worship Him because He's made of some supernatural-unknowable substance. Rather I worship Him cause off all that He is. He made me, gave me life and this wonderful Earth. He gave His son that I could wash away all the stupid stuff I've done, and start anew with Him. I tell Him "thank you" and "I love you" every day. I owe Him everything and want nothing more than to be like Him. If that's not worship, I don't know what is. When I go to Heaven, and through Christ's blood am completely perfected, I too will be completely loving. I too will be completely just and merciful. If not, then how could I dwell in God's presence? I will live with Him and be like Him (and so utterly happy). Just because I could possibly be like God one day, doesn't mean He's any less deserving of my praise (today or tomorrow). If anything, it means He's more deserving of my worship because without Christ's sacrifice none of it would have been possible.

(I realized I left something important off this list) The Father will always be my Father and Christ will always be my Savior, no matter where I shall dwell in the next life. Under no scenarios am I going to "replace" the Father or Savior.

Let's skip the official/not official doctrine debate for now. It's not canonized scripture and leave it at that.

Hi!

Hi Claire, No worries, this is a perfectly open topic. Have you seen the Gospel Topics essay on it? https://www.lds.org/topics/becoming-like-god?lang=eng. You should also read Anatess response (she hit the nail). As others have said, this is an 'fair-game' topic, but not a simple one. This is partially because we just don’t know everything. As stated in the Articles of Faith: "We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God." (Emphasis mine). ---- Things we do know for sure (good place to start) --- 1) **Important question** Have you studied the LDS concept of God? (Anatass touched on this). The LDS view of God does differ from the Catholic one. We see God as three personages (Father, Son, Holy Ghost), which are one in *purpose* (as opposed to substance). "God" is three people (as seen at Jesus' baptism) working together in perfect harmony together. God wants us to join Him in His perfection. Speaking of His disciples, Jesus prayed (John 17:21-23): "That they all may be aone; as thou, bFather, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be cone in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be aone, even as we are bone 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast bloved them, as thou hast loved me. Recap: God wants us to join Him, to be perfect and one as God is. He wants us to be like Him. -------- Things we can sorta guess ------- What exactly does “becoming like God” mean? Well, I can list the traits of God and think how they can be reflected in me. For starters, God is Love. God is just. God is forgiving. I can guess that in Heaven (my most perfected state) that I could be utmost loving. Perhaps I might be all-knowing too. God also said that He wants to share everything with me… but I’m not sure what all that means. Thinking on this subject… I feel like a baby, trying to guess everything that my Father does/is. We know so little. ------ Things we have no clue about ------ God’s past. Yes, there is the Lorezno Snow quote, but beyond that quote (which is sort of a riddle itself, and not official Mormon doctrine). Any “getting your own planet” thing. ------ How does this play in Mormon Doctrine ---- The King Follet Discourse is not official scripture. Now, how much unofficial weight it carries... as you observed Mormons are quite varied on the issue. Truthfully, this is practically never discussed at church. Rather than arguing about how Heaven looks like, we focus on the day-to-day trying to be more Christ-like (loving your neighbor, repenting our sins, etc…). ------ Practical applications for today ------ I don’t know exactly what Heaven looks like. And this doesn’t keep me up at night. Why? Because it’ll be marvelous. And I work my hardest every day to be more Christ-like.

Well keep us updated! I've really enjoyed this thread.

Definitely start with BoM! The BoM's purpose is to testify for Christ-- that's a good starting point. If you want, you can skip to the book Third Nephi chapter 11 for Christ's big appearance. If you're getting lost frequently, there an official study guide book which can help you out (https://www.lds.org/manual/book-of-mormon-student-manual?lang=eng). D&C is hard to read because there's a lot of background history not included, and a lot of legalist how-to-run-the-church stuff. If you're looking for a good official Mormon 101 book, I would recommend the Gospel Principles manual (https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles?lang=eng). It's the manual for the new member Sunday School class, which may be vaguely similar to RCIA (other Catholics could clarify that).

Heh, don't worry about it one bit. We're passionate people and like to talk. No one here is angry or upset, so you have nothing to be sorry about. I've actually really enjoyed your questions and looking at things from a new perspective. The BoM is meant as an additional witness testifying of Christ, the same way the Gospel of John compliments the Gospel of Mark. It provides additional insight on the same things to Bible does. Sometimes the BoM says a principle really well, so we like to quote that verse a lot. The promised, principles, and message is the same as the Bible. The BoM does NOT "trump" the Bible. Nothing is getting replaced. There are no new promises or laws for us to make in the BoM which are not described in the Bible. Note: this is not true of Doctrine and Convents, but that's a completely separate issue.

Guys we should focus back on Claire, not chasing our own tail.

Referring specifically to this case: It IS in her employee handbook that pregnant people should be married. If this was specifically in her contract, I would say that this is a shut case, because she was violating the terms of her contract. However, I’m getting the impression that she was hired with her employers knowing she was pregnant and unmarried. In which case the employers aren’t playing by their own rulebook and things get much messier.

Now, to speak on the difference/similarities between convents and testaments in the LDS understanding: Covenant = your promises Testaments = your witness. When I sat down to write this, I was thinking how they were separate things, but as I reflect, they are very similar actually. Because our words should be our actions, which should be our beliefs too. To find you an official source, I pulled up the Official Mormon Bible Dictionary and looked up “Testament”, and it said: “See Covenant.” Ok, I clicked on the link… “Covenant: Sometimes denotes an agreement between persons (1 Sam. 23:18) or nations (1 Sam. 11:1); more often between God and man; but in this latter case it is important to notice that the two parties to the agreement do not stand in the relation of independent and equal contractors. God in His good pleasure fixes the terms, which man accepts. The same word is sometimes rendered “testament.” .... ”

Ok, I’m going to take a step back here for clarity. The original question: One would be similar to how we use testimony (i.e. confess of or witnessing to something), and I sense that is the context in which Mormons are using it. Your assessment is correct here Claire. If all you wanted was that answer I would stop reading now. To set one record straight: the people in the BoM lived under the Law of Moses until Christ came, and then they lived under the higher law.

It's easy to spend ridiculous amounts of time evaluating someone, tallying every little aspect of their lives and summing up the net result.... but isn't judging people Christ's job? Just my word of caution before you get caught in the history-judging-black-hole.

Welcome welcome!

Yeah, there are a lot of strange people in this world. As to being "an island in your beliefs": your beliefs will not be identical to your inlaws, wards members, or anyone else. That's why it's call an *individual* testimony. This is a good thing. Now, you can still talk to others and relate, even though you're not clones of each other. I do not buy into the argument that feeling the Spirit of peace is just a conditioned response. If it was, then why don't I get it every time, like a dog that does a trick and wants a treat? Because I'm not a dog and the Spirit of God is not a press-button-get-instant-grativation.

Ask a stickler for the rules, I see temple submission for names as two groups: Group 1) People born more than 150 (not 110) years ago. These people are long dead and not likely to have surviving immediate family. I'm less picky about these people. Group 2) People born <150 years ago and likely to have living immediate family. Do NOT do if you are not immediate family-- specifically to avoid cases like the OP. The system is being so abused I think that upon submittal you should have to prove that your are directly related and submit the digital signature of the the closest relative. Hitting just the one "I have permission" button is so easy blow past.

It's also on YouTube.

I did not know that!

What's happening to you now sounds a lot like moving from the children's Noah story to the “grown up” Noah story. It can be a very scary time: when I went through it, part of me wanted to "unlearn" what I just read and go back to cartoon pictures. But you can't "undo" learning and growth, and the scriptures tell us that "all things shall be for your good" including this transition. Now, on to the practical advice--- 1) What not to do: continue spinning around like a kite caught in a storm. All that will do is tear you to pieces. So I would quit binge reading all the "grown up" stuff for a little bit (we'll get to it a few steps). 2) What to do: re-find your foundational testimony in Christ. Go back to the basics, and remember the rock on which you are built. Spend lots of time in prayer, reflection, and re-reading your favorite scriptures. Perhaps even sing-a-long time with your kids and the favorite primary songs. 3) Self-check: how do you feel? God is not the author of chaos, but of order and calm. Do you feel calm and centered in Christ? If no, go back to step 2. If calm, proceed to step 4. 4) Now we can start working on the "grown up" stories. Guidelines for studying "grown up" stories: 1) As they tell you in Sunday School, always pray and keep the Lord in your heart when you study. 2) As you work through issues, take them *one* at a time (this is to prevent kite-in-storm-sydrome). 3) Use good sources, including the scriptures. Just because some random website says something doesn't make it true. The LDS.org articles are there to help in this type of "grown up" study. 4) You can always ask people about things too (including us here). 5) Back to point #1, always pray and keep the Lord in your heart. If you loose touch of that, then it's time to put the website down for a few minutes and pray.

Hi RuthiesMom, When I was ~12 I decided the read the Bible cover-to-cover. What I quickly discovered is that the Bible is not rated G. I was just a few chapters in I read about Noah. Yeah, there was the part about the Ark, but then there was this story about Noah getting super drunk and danced around nude in front of his family. What the??? My Sunday School teacher never mention this! I wondered why this would be. After years of study I decided that my issue was two fold: 1) why would a man of God do this, and 2) why did my Sunday school teacher not tell me about it. Issue #1: Why would a man of God act like this? Cause he's a MAN of God. "Man" by definition means he's fallible and makes mistakes. In fact, as I continued reading the Bible I found it to 1000+ rated R pages of men messing up again and again! At first it was repulsive but then... I saw myself in their mistakes. And I saw how these messed up people still communed with God and how they would grow to be better people. And then I got to the New Testament and met Jesus: the Perfect man, and He talked about Forgiveness and the Grace of God offered freely to all these wretched people... WOW!!! That's what it was all about: Jesus coming to save our messed up selves. Learning about church history is a lot like reading the Old Testament: it’s full of people making mistakes. Really really dumb mistakes. But God is still there and still coaching His people ad making them better. And then there is Christ there to save us all, both in His previous coming and in that to be still. Issue #2: Why did my Sunday School teacher not tell me about this? Ummm… because I was 12 years old. And because we have to cover the entire Old Testament in ~40 weeks and hence it turned into Spark Notes crash course of all the Good things people did, skimming over the dumb things. We simply don’t have the time to cover everything. Now, were they hiding things from me? Well, my Sunday School teacher only told me to read my scriptures about a million times…. The church doesn’t mean to hide things from you, even when there isn’t time to cover everything in Sunday School. That’s why they have LDS.org and they posted the essays: to offer a good reliable source.

Growing up my mom would bribe our HT with cookies when they came to visit. Wondering if I should adopt the same idea...

Want a calling? Want to be involved with something? Then volunteer! I've been a similar boat myself (at church 1-2 a month). Having been through several bishoprics in that time, I've learned that people are not mind readers: if I want to help out, then I need to tell them that, not wait for them to figure it out. So yes, I walk up to the bishop and literally say "Hi, my name is Jane and I would like a calling." At that point the bishop's jaw usually drops to the floor in excitement and goes "of course! We have so many things to do!"