sixpacktr

Shoot! I really wanted to know what his reasoning was behind the special ring! I think the poster that thought he might be Frodo had the best answer! Myyyyyyyyy Pressshhhioussssssssss!

The reason I stated that this is not doctrinal is that it isn't. Elder McConkie cited the statement of this 1st Presidency of Joseph F Smith, which, again, I feel speaks to common sense if you believe as we believe. It may not be common sense to Dr T or PC, because of their differences in religious beliefs from us, and that is okay. Again, I believe this to be true, but there is danger in stating that this is doctrine, because I feel that the next logical step is that people will start to want to pray to our HM, which is 180 degrees opposite to what we have been commanded to do. Gaia used as citations one woman in particular, Janice Allred, who was ex'd for preaching we should pray to HM. Some of the other citations also are dubious, to me, to say the least. I don't really give much credence to what other religions have said about the 'divine feminine'. I feel that this is just an offshoot of where some have gotten off course with the pure principles of the gospel, and changed it to fit with what they wanted instead of what had been revealed. Onyx asks some good questions, and I don't have the answers to them. I don't really know how doctrine is determined, as there have been some thngs stated in the past that have since been stated to be opinion while not necessarily doctrine. BY taught that we should all get the spirit so that we cannot be led astray by anyone, even our leaders. However, he didn't state that so that there would be anarchy and confusion in the church, but rather so that we would gain a testimony of what our leaders were telling us, particularly the 'prophets, seers and revelators' that make up the 1st Pres and Quorum of the 12 (which, BTW, is in 2 weeks!). I seriously doubt that the 'doctrine' of HM will be taught there, but faith in our HF and the atonement of his Son Jesus Christ will be taught abundantly...

Gaia, I read thru your note, as well as some of the references, and I have yet to find a reference that I will accept as doctrinal. I saw nothing from LDS.org that stated this as doctrine, or any other source. I did read the short notes from belief.net, and while I believe that these were said by the various authorities at different times, (and again, remember that I did believe this) I see nothing that states that 'the church accepts as DOCTRINE the reality of a HM.' It is, to me, common sense, but it is not something that is openly taught and acted upon. I then looked at some of your other sources, and saw that some are from ex-mos and excommunicated people that were ex'd for praying, or telling others, to pray to HM. This is expressly contrary to our doctrine. I know the argument that women just want someone to talk to, that understands them, and that they feel that only HM would. I still think that is heresy (there, I finally said it), as we are commanded to pray to 'God the Father in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ'. And the one reference that says that the HG is actually HM is stretching it, I feel. I am being as nice as I can in stating this, as I want to be sure I follow the admonition of Heather posted today to be respectful, and I hope that I came across that way, but this is a dangerous belief, I believe. I hope that this is taken in the spirit given.

Hi Gaia, I'd be interested in what you have to say on this matter, but I was under the impression that a Heavenly Mother existing was not doctrine, but rather speculation, that HF had not revealed any such thing. My own spin on that was my statement, beginning with 'Our HF felt so strongly...' I'd be interested on the joint vision that JS and others had of a Heavenly Mother. Again, just so that I am clear, I do believe, but want to be sure that we aren't poking into something that HF felt so strongly about he didn't make it known, that's all. Finally, my last sentence in my previous post was to ensure that I didn't start a war of some kind, because it wasn't my intent. I'm glad you took it in the spirit it was offered... :)

Sorry for the chills. What I meant to say is that the knowledge of a Heavenly Mother might actually be a blessing for some and provide greater understandings for some sisters.I can understand your concern though. Expressing a desire to know more of a Heavenly Mother if there is one does not have to diminish the roles of Heavenly Father or Christ (whom we will ultimately have to be judged by). It would help put the mothering aspect into perspective. As far as relief society presidencies go. They are here to help us. But just as in the case of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ I would place Heavenly Mother in a totally different realm After all look who she has to put up with Fair enough. I can see where that could help.Again, this is a subject that is completely speculation, kind of like the 'why didn't the blacks have the PH until 1978?' thing. My opinion was purely my opinion, nothing doctrinal or any other types of statements from the GAs. I'm sure when we are able to speak with our HF and ask him the 'whys' it will make perfect sense to us...

Beautifully put, a-train...

But this isn't a private discussion "amongst females". It is a public message board; hence, the discomfort. I really was debating whether to say anything or not, as I don't want to cause another eruption here, but when I read that, I got chills up my spine, and they weren't good chills. Our HF and our Savior, his Son, Jesus Christ, PERFECTLY understands ALL of our trials and tribulations here upon the earth. Even if we taught openly about a Heavenly Mother, we still wouldn't pray to her, or ask her because 'Father wouldn't understand'. Again, not a poke, just want to clarify that.

I'll echo Sioux's sentiments here, and ask the same question: why do you want a ring blessed? What is the purpose in it?

I must confess that I get a little leery with the constant references to being a priestess and queen and Heavenly Mother. I believe that there is a Heavenly Mother, but I don't make that a 'part' of me. I feel that it is too sacred of a subject to constantly put out in front of people as fact. Our HF felt so strongly about this that he never let us know this, knowing that his name would be taken in vain, and to protect her he didn't let others know. I believe, personally, that this subject is too sacred to just openly flaunt and put out there. I feel this way because I am relatively easy going. But if you disrespect my mother or my wife, I tend to get more than a little upset. I think that most men are this way. That is why I feel that just proclaiming this as doctrine, etc., is a little too sacred for me, and feel that it should be viewed as such. I know all about 'O My Father' etc., but it isn't doctrine, just personal belief. Again, I do believe, but I think some discretion is advised... Hopefully, this will not be taken as a poke or slam, and that it isn't some PH holder trying to keep a woman down, but rather in the light that I intended...

I hope that no one goes to the extreme that we are 'lily white'. Whatever sins exist on the earth, there are Mormons that do them as well. I think, though, that what some are getting at is that there are guidelines upon guidelines to protect people as far as possible. Sometimes the guidelines are a pain in the behind, but they are there to keep the youth (especially) as safe as possible. Someone pointed out that it 'follows' you on your records. That is correct. Forgiveness comes with repentance, but some sins need to be tracked in order to keep that person free from him/herself. Child abuse is one. All churches condemn such behavior, as well they should...

But Jason,Don't you think that it cheapens the marriage vows? I know, no more so than the rapant divorce that occurs now, but then you would have the state sanctioning that attitude...

I'll have to check that out for verification. I had heard that he had stated those things. But really, do you believe that someone that runs a Shia state like this guy really doesn't want to get rid of Jews? I find that hard to believe, but I could be wrong... I don't think he wants to destroy all Jews. If you avoid the standard media talk, and read the letters he's written to heads of state, he presents a different picture. I'm not saying the guy is a Saint, but I think he's been given somewhat of a bad rap. http://www.ahmadinejad.ir/ Do I read that backwards and upside down, kind of like a 'Stairway to Heaven' thing? :)

I'll have to check that out for verification. I had heard that he had stated those things.But really, do you believe that someone that runs a Shia state like this guy really doesn't want to get rid of Jews? I find that hard to believe, but I could be wrong...

With precious little, sadly. And THAT is why Mattel is caving, as well as others. They can't afford multi-billion dollar recalls, resourcing of production, etc...

All I can say is 'how Ivy League' of them to allow him. In today's world, Chamberlain would be hailed as the conquering hero as we sought to 'understand' Hitler...But we don't learn the lessons of the past. That is too 'melodramatic' nowadays...

Everybody is getting into the act! Makes you wonder about those wonderful 'happy meal' toys, doesn't it?!

Before I begin, I just want to make clear I am a firm believer in the free market/free enterprise system. But we are selling ourselves down the river for the almighty dollar by allowing China to develop because they are cheap labor. The Chinese market is driving the rest of the world crazy in raw materials (we can't get them!) because they are buying them up faster than they can be produced. We are outsourcing automobile parts to China, instead of keeping that technology here. We are buying produce from China, where they still use human dung as fertilizer. We have given them everything, all for a quick buck. China will, one day, rise up and try to swat us, hard. They are communists, and it is part of their manifesto. They aren't interested in 'getting along' or being 'kind hearted'. They will destroy us if they can. It doesn't surprise me about Mattel. Not at all. They have a bottom line to protect, and stock holders to answer to. We really need to let people know that we need to get out of China and let them rot in the 19th century until they overthrow their government...

Goes with the whole 'starter marriage' philosophy I heard about on the radio a couple of weeks ago. There are actually now people that, when they say 'til death do you part' don't even mean that. They mean 'til I find someone that strikes my fancy more'. We had a talk radio host up here (and this is related to this thread, so pls bear with me) that stated that people SHOULD live together first because if you don't have sex until you are married then you won't know if that person is the one to rock your world every night. My wife told me this. I told her that if marriage were only about having as many "big o's" as possible every night of the week, then he has a point, but sex is only part of it, as you all know. It is sad how the world gets more and more screwed up, and although this clown won't go far, give him time. 10 years from now he won't seem so weird... edited for content...

That is nice, Shan.Ours is actually set in the countertop, not the sink on the countertop and then caulked, so it is kind of the same but different!

For me, Aphrodite, it was an increased portion of the spirit. I just understood spiritual things on a different level than before. I haven't been to the temple yet that I didn't gain some little bit of understanding that I didn't have previously. Also, the sense of peace is blessing enough for me. To be able to enter into the Lord's house and have the 'noise' in my head go away (yes, the little voices!). By that I mean, that while I could think of bad things, I had to try to do it (I did try that as an experiment, and while I could, it was all me, not anything else). When I walked back outside the walls of the temple then little thoughts would come right back. I truly believe that we need times away from Satan's minions so that we can feel peace and gain understanding without all of the background noise telling us to do wrong things... Just my $0.02 worth...

Our new house came with this same type of granite countertops. I really really like them. I'm with SF: I will always select granite or changeover in any future homes we have...

One thing we have to realize: China is a communist country. They are committed to our overthrow, however they can do it. These aren't a bunch of 'benevolent' dictators, looking out for their country's best interests... We will, one day, have to fight them. I hope not, but I don't see how we won't, unless this country repents and allows the Lord to fight our battles for us, much like he did Israel and the Nephites when they were righteous...

No. I see no difference with that and piercings, tattoos, etc.

It is hard to tell what will or will not happen. If it does, this guy will look like a prophet. If it doesn't, then it will be quickly forgotten. The wisdom of a year supply of food and 3 months of money becomes more and more apparent every day...

nobody is saying you can't pray. Just not as the official mouthpiece for the congregation/class. Being able to pray in sacrament meeting is not a 'right'. You might have well as stated that not being able to pass the sacrament while on probation or disfellowshipment isn't right either. It is a privilege to stand in for others and administer. We must remain as worthy as possible to do so...