JcDean78

There are some people in this world who hold the value of animals to be equal and in some cases greater than the life of a human. That is not at all what I am talking about here though. I certainly am not trying to elevate a dog or cat to the same position as my children, parents, etc. But these loyal and lovable creatures as their own personality and bond with us. They do become just like family but that does not mean they are equal to that of my children or even close. Again I totally understand where you are coming from because I have met people who do value animals over or equal to humans but that is not what I am talking about here. What I want to know is if the dogs from my life can be with me in Heaven and I believe from what we have found in this thread the answer is yes.

We only have a small fraction of information about Science with theories constantly changing and there is a lot more to the gospel than what we know at this time. In time as our knowledge of both grows, we will come to see that science and the Gospel do not conflict but rather go hand in hand. My personal opinion is that the current theory on evolution and natural selection contains many truths to it. Just how much of the current theory is correct will be revealed over time but I promise in the end it will be in harmony with the Gospel. Science and the Gospel are not in conflict.

Well this has been very uplifting. Thanks for the story on lds.org especially!

This might seem like a silly topic but I have never heard about a position from the Church on what happens to animals when they pass on. Are animals,like dogs, simply organic machines that are here to be with us while on earth only or since they are alive do they too continue on in some way? I ask because we recently lost a very beloved dog who was very much part of the family. My mother, who is a non member, was asking about going to Heaven and if our dog would be there waiting for us. Personally, I would like to think the answer is yes but I have absolutly no understanding of how animals fit into any sort of plan nor do I know if such answers have ever been given to us. Does anybody have any insight into this or perhaps some opinions for discussion?

I cannot agree more with this. In fact it was some posters like -a- train alluded to which made me (An active LDS member) lose interest in this site a while back but I decided to give it a try again. I hope the original poster is a true investigator. As a convert I can testify of many times where I have had serious issues with various members for different reasons to the point that I almost left the Church not long after I first joined it. However while the members sometimes make mistakes and are not perfect, the Church that Christ established here on Earth is perfect in every way. We are all sinners and we struggle daily to do better. So please do not take the bile that has been spit at you by some here to reflect overall on the Church and a majority of its members. One of the bad things about the net is it allows for people to say things behind a computer anonymously which they would never say to another person face to face. Good luck in your search. I pray that you find what you need.

I think in the end we will see the science and religion go hand in hand as we learn more about both! On Dino's and such, we have no idea what all happened outside of Eden or how long a "day" was. Its very possible that they lived during that time until the fall. Another theory is that if (as was mentioned by a previous post) that the earth was organized instead of being created, its very possible that some of the things we are digging up are actually not of this world and never lived on this earth. With reguards to how Adam was made in the image of God, there is a theory that might work for hardliners on both sides. When you bake a cake, you dont just start out with a cake. You have to get all the stuff right and mix it for a certain amount of time under certain conditions. We all know that Adam was taken from the dust but we do not know the exact process to which the dust was made into a man. It could be that it was very much like baking a cake and in some peoples eyes, that could be a form of evolution from dust to man.

The simple answer to all of this is it is about choice. We are each given the opportunity to choose what we do. Be it walk in the light or walk in the darkness. That principle is part of the foundation of everything. When the government begins to go far left with Fascism, Socialism, Communism, it only servers to take away that choice that we are all to have. It goes against a major pillar of the Church. Without the choice, the growth and humbleness that we are supposed to endure will not happen and our opportunity is taken away. In a free society we are blessed to be able to give and help others with our time, money, and prayers based on our own FREE will. An enslaved people can not do that. It is the very freedom of our Republic which helped allow the Gospel to be restored in these latter days. I totally understand the point of view that socialism is the path the Church should go down but when you look at it in the context of freedom through free agency then it becomes clear that being forced to give at the point of a gun is not the intent of the gospel nor will it help further our progression to be closer to Heavenly Father.

I am not saying otherwise than that. As stated previously there are exceptions to both killing adults and children. If I kill a person in the defense of my home, then that is a justified killing. If my wife kills our child because she will die from giving birth then that is another justified killing. However if I kill somebody because they are up to get a promotion before I am then that is killing to attempt to make my life easier just the same if I kill my child because I do not want one or do not feel I am up to being a parent. It is not I who are trying to pervert what they have said. Infantcide is only justifiable in certain situations just like killing adults and that is STRAIGHT from the prophets. Murder is murder no matter what age the victim is. Your definitions support the fact that abortion is murder. In certain situations killing is justified be it a child or an adult, but only in THOSE RARE situations. Any other killing is in fact MURDER and that includes all other Abortions.

What he is saying there is that unchastity is next to murder and the gorwing crime of abortion is the result of unchastity. In no way does he say it is less than unchastity in the rankings of sin. If anything he is saying unchastity leads to abortion which is murder. Unchastity is the first step to a greater sin.

I think you just see what you want to see or do not see what you do not want to see. Abortion is obviously murder and the prophets have been clear. To take away another persons life is murder yes? Abortion is the taking away of another persons life. To say it is not murder would be like saying Crack is not against the word of wisdom becuase they do not specificly mention crack. How about if I push somebody off a bridge. Is that murder? I am going to guess you say yes it is. So please point out to me where the Church states that is murder, since I do not think they have specified that particular situation. I am sorry if it offends you but Abortion is murder. It is the taking of another persons life and by definition murder. No amount of debate can change that.

Wordflood I point to that above for now. I am sorry if you feel the need to accuse me of spreading "false" doctrine and are so upset over me calling a spade a spade that you would put me on your ignore button for speaking the truth. I think the issue with some here is that they refuse to see abortion for what it is and the Church has been clear on it.

I have always hoped to have my pets back as well. I have never seen anything official on if we get them back or not. I sure do hope so!

I would like to point out that those trials made you who you are today. Not that you would ever wish those things on anyone, but they made you into the strong person you are today. We all have trials. Some are harder than others. I grew up with a loving mother and an abusive father who was into womanizing, drugs, and the drink. When my mother took us both away from that our lives were a lot better but still we had to fight off my father as he kept trying to mess with us for many years. There were many scary times especially as a small child but I look back now and I feel that it was all for a purpose to help me grow and to help give direction in my life on the paths not to take. Another story I have is my best friends father was murdered back when we were just barley teenagers. His father was a great man and it was so hard on him and his family to lose such a great person. The fact that they were all sealed together was of great comfort but it did not stop their sorrow. It was a rough road for my friend because he lost the closest person to him when he felt he needed him the most. The next several years were a HUGE trial for him but it all made him a stronger person which led to where he is today. The list could go on and on, but our trials make us who we are and strengthen us. Some are just horrible but they all serve a purpose. Looking back, I would not take those trials away from me no matter how hard they were at the time. If you read it, the Church states that clearly it is murder. Just like killing another person (self defense, war, etc...) there are rules that apply to the killing which can make it justified and those rules (which should be RARE) are clearly laid out by the leaders of the Church.

Hello! I grew up in Charlottesville which is about an hour from you. I am now down here in the top right corner of TN. USC? Pffttt... you are in Cavalier territory baby! Welcome to the site!

Huh? Yea, whats that about? CK posted some great refs! I am shocked that so many people are being mislead on Abortion and fail to see it as murder. The prophets have spoken, and as they say when the prophet speaks... the debate is over. But honeslty will any debate change reality? Can it change the truth? No. 27million abortions is hardly a "rare" occurance.

If our laws say Murder is wrong then so is abortion. If you can murder people then you can have abortions. Its not about a a particular religion but about the laws of this Rebpulic and murder is against the law! The Church has taken a light stance on it in certain situations but then Church also takes similar stances on killing other humans. If my life is in danager and I kill a man who breaks into my house and threatens my family, then is that murder? No. If I have to go to war and bear arms against others and end the lives of some of them, is that murder? No, clearly not as shown in the scriptures. So when the Church talks about special situations for Abortion, I see it as no different than special situations for killing another person. However if I tonight decide that I am going to open fire on some random people and kill them... it is murder just as if I were to have an abortion and murder my child. I honeslty do not think you can be pro-abortion and LDS as it goes against everything we value as well as against the laws of the land which makes murder illegal (Abrotion was ONLY allowed because activist judges invented it, there is no legal right in this country to murder your child).

I think perhaps you should ask Lorena Bobbitt that question. Seriously though, I'm speechless as to how to even respond to this....wow....whoa....ahh...duh... Though i suppose, it was good laugh to start off my morning, that has to be one of the most absurd things I've seen posted on this board, since I've joined. umm...no...again another nonsensical argument. If someone else dies as a result of your actions, then your not just harming yourself, regardless of who owns a piece of property. That much should be pretty self explanatory. I guess we can just leave this as a difference of opinion. When something is inside a person's body (by inside I mean literally inside, not inside you like your creepy sexual reference above), it is their body, not yours, not Pat Roberts, nor Rick Santorum's. So the choice should be theirs. What really gets me about the whole abortion debate is, its a womans issue, and so many men want to try and tell a woman how she should deal with her pregnancy. When a man will never know what that is like, or what pains, in some circumstances, that your going to try to force a woman through because of a belief that you feel compelled to project on to others. There is no debate, it is murder. People are just trying to justify it any way they can. You keep saying it is about a woman and her body when clearly it is not. It is about a woman wanting to cause harm or murder another person! People say, well the baby can not make it on its own without the mom. Well can a newborn? If that mom dumps the baby in the trash then is that murder? How about a disabled person who can not fend for themselves. Would that be murder? I want to drink and I want to drive. Its my body and my car, so I can do as I please right? Even if there is a chance I can hurt others? Well with Abortion there is a 100% chance you will not only harm but MURDER another human being. It is not about a womans body, it is about a CHILDS body. The womans right to "choose" ends after she chose to have sex. When she made THAT choice with her body, then the life that follows is NOT her choice. As I said before Abortion IS murder and no amount of debate or discussion can change the truth regardless of how inconvenient it might be to some people.

Getting a Tattoo, piercing, or cutting off your own hand is doing what YOU want with your body. Killing another person is not about your body. Does that mean I could stand in front of you and shot myself through the gut and the bullet hits you too and kills you? During sex certain parts of another person are inside a woman, should she be able to do anything she pleases since it is HER body? Even cut it off? I am not trying to be crude but my point is that you should not be able to do things to your body that cause harm to other peoples bodies. Want to smoke in your own home or jump off a bridge? GO right ahead. But when you want to murder or harm others, the "it is my body" argument goes right out the window. If I live in a house with another person but I own the house and decide one night I am just going to light it on fire. If that person dies, can I say "keep your laws off my house?" or "My house, my way?" Abortion IS murder. No amount of debate or discussion can EVER change that no matter how much some people would like to try.

Ding Dong, this witch is DEAD!!! (for now at least) http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070608/D8PKB0C00.html

Abortion is murder. Do we have a right to murder?

At conception, any other line is a deception.

My advice to you is that you don't have to tell your affairs years before because it gonna ruin your family. Discuss it with your Bishop. Your Bishop will never tell you to to discuss it with your wife. God knows what in your heart and he forgive you. I have been married for more than 10 years, years ago my husband had an affair with another woman and never told me about it till I found out later. I felt hurt and the only solution was to end up my marriage but I have 4 children to look after. My husband told me everything and said he never do it again. I forgive him but still I felt the pain in my heart. Even if my husband already told me of his affairs before I found out, I gonna feel the same thing. To safe your marriage, never tell your wife. That is not the type of relationship I would want to be in. Not telling only makes it worse.

A kiss like you would your mom or a kiss like you would your wife back when you were first married? I guess we need to define what a kiss is? Not really, because it sounds like he cheated in his heart as well as with his body. Degree might matter with her but it really does not change what is the right thing to do. I think you did all the right things to stop the problem and it is great that you want to make amends but the only way to do that is to be honest.

You are absoultly right, I had not thought about that. However I have never seen it taught in class or brought up. When the issue has been brought up by Non LDS many times, I have always responded that Angels are the children of God and that Satan is a fallen Angel which is valid even without the further revelation that we have. When speaking to a non member, they do not want LDS references but rather New and Old T refs.

The thing is we do allow in a HUGE number of immigrants every single year. Legal ones from Mexico alone are over 100,000 per year! There is NOT an issue with them coming here, there is an issue with people breaking the law to get here and they happen to be from Mexico. It would be no different if it was a bunch of Candians coming ocer here and refusing to speak English, only French.