JojoBag

Don't get me wrong. I agree with much of the sentiment expressed about Koyle. However, even the Devil will tell the truth. And yes, he always does that to get in a lie. What I'm attempting to do is correlate true prophecies from church leaders with some of the things he has stated. If something does not agree with what has already been revealed, I ignore it as not truthful. And, of course, the only way to keep from being deceived is to follow the true prophet, not a false prophet. I consider many sources in my quest for knowledge. Simply because a person was eventually excommunicated does not mean that everything he stated is false. If that were the case, we need to disregard everything any former, excommunicated GA has ever stated as false, starting with Oliver Cowdery, Martin Harris and David Whitmer and their testimonies of the Book of Mormon. I'm also under the impression from the responses that some of you think we should never listen to the inspired words of the ordinary, nobody person in church. I also take it from these responses that some of you think only an apostle or the prophet can receive revelation. And before anyone starts in, I know all about it being "personal" revelation when it comes from a nobody church member. What I have a problem with is that too many LDS think that if something is "personal revelation," it is only true for that specific person. When it comes to personal problems, personal circumstances, I agree with that, but when it comes to an eternal gospel truth, the "personal revelation" from a nobody member is true for everyone. I realize it is not a nobody member's privilege or right to publish it as a revelation intended for the entire church; that comes only from the prophet, but that does not invalidate the truthfulness of that person's revelation. When the Spirit confirms another person's "personal revelation" to me, then I accept it as truth. just as I would when the Spirit confirms to me the truthfulness of what the Prophet teaches. I do not take another person's word for something unless I have implicit trust in them (not always then either), especially things I hear during church (not general conference; I accept that). I investigate it to see if what I heard agrees with what is already revealed. All too often I find some things said were tradition and not truth. This is the case with many of the Koyle "prophecies." I'm interested in finding out the truth. We are expected to find out things for ourselves, to seek out knowledge and understanding, and to gain intelligence. If we sit back and wait for the prophet to tell us what to do, we are in serious trouble.

Yeah, I agree that there is a lot of animosity in some of these alleged prophecies. I have a problem with those that attack church leaders. What I'm more interested in are those that pertain to the condition of the U.S. and its imminent collapse. I have found a correlation between Koyle's utterances and those of more reputable sources. His predictions of the weather changing, famine, crop failures, disruption in the government, all correlate with prophecies of many apostles and prophets.

I just recently learn of some alleged prophecies from a former bishop, John Koyle. He was excommunicated from the church and died in 1949. He made a series of alleged prophecies, one of which caught my attention. Since three general authorities recently died in quick succession, it makes me wonder what else he said that has and will come true. The following are a few of his prophecies. What do you think?

Question 4. Sorry, but you got this one wrong. The continents of the Earth, were, in fact, divided in the days of Peleg, which was referenced in the Doctrine and Covenants and the following article from the New Era. "In 1885 the Austrian geologist Eduard Suess theorized on the existence of a supercontinent that he called Gondwanaland. On November 3, 1831, at Hiram, Ohio, the Prophet Joseph received the above revelation with its great truth: “… and the earth shall be like as it was in the days before it was divided.” (D&C 133:24) The fact that Latter-day Saints have been informed for such a long period of time of the once supercontinent is extraordinary, but not nearly as extraordinary as is our awareness of that which is yet to come. Gondwanaland: What It Means to Latter-day Saints" Jay M. Todd New Era, Mar 1971 https://www.lds.org/new-era/1971/03/gondwanaland-what-it-means-to-latter-day-saints?lang=eng -Question 5. The following comes from a conference talk given by Pres. Benson. I recommend you read the entire talk as it was all about secret combinations and communism/socialism. “The Prophet Moroni seemed greatly exercised lest in our day we might not be able to recognize the startling fact that the same secret societies which destroyed the Jaredites and decimated numerous kingdoms of both Nephites and Lamanites would be precisely the same form of criminal conspiracy which would rise up among the gentile nations in this day. The strategems of the leaders of these societies are amazingly familiar to anyone who has studied the tactics of modern communist leaders. The Lord has declared that before the second coming of Christ it will be necessary to ". . . destroy the secret works of darkness, . . ." in order to preserve the land of Zion—the Americas. (2 Nephi 10:11-16.) The world-wide secret conspiracy which has risen up in our day to fulfil these prophecies is easily identified. President McKay has left no room for doubt as to what attitude Latter-day Saints should take toward the modern "secret combinations" of conspiratorial communism. In a lengthy statement on communism, he said: ". . . Latter-day Saints should have nothing to do with the secret combinations and groups antagonistic to the constitutional law of the land, which the Lord 'suffered to be established,' and which 'should be maintained for the rights and protection of all flesh according to just and holy principles.' " (Gospel Ideals, by David O. McKay, p. 306. Italics added.)” Conference Report, Oct 1961, Pgs. 69-75 Question 6. You need to remember that at the time of the First Vision, Joseph did not have the authority of the priesthood to perform miracles. "After some difficulty Joseph succeeded in taking Newel by the hand, and with great earnestness Newel pleaded with him to cast the devil out of him, for he knew he was possessed. The Prophet said, "If you know that I can, it shall be done." Then, almost unconsciously, he rebuked the evil spirit in the name of Jesus Christ and commanded him to depart. Immediately Newel spoke, saying he saw the evil spirit leave him and vanish from his sight. This was the first miracle performed in this dispensation. As soon as the devil departed Newel became normal again, his distortions of body ceased, and the Spirit of the Lord opened his vision to a glorious manifestation of the heavens." Essentials in Church History, Joseph Fielding Smith, Pg. 98 Question 8. Here are a few quotes. There are several others, but you get the idea. "I will now present a subject which will be a text for the brethren to preach upon from this stand, viz., the necessity of building storehouses in which to preserve our grain. If we have a fruitful season this coming summer, we shall have a large amount of surplus grain which we cannot carry out of the country to market: it must tarry here. And if the people do their duty in this matter, they will continue to lay up grain for themselves and for this community throughout this Territory, and for fifty or a hundred times as many more, until they have enough to last them seven years. You can figure at that, and learn how much grain you ought to lay up. If we have, as I believe we shall, a few seasons fruitful in grain, the staple article that we can cure and preserve, it is our indispensable duty to safely store it for a time to come. This will be a text for some of the brethren." Brigham Young, JD 4:307 "I will tell you a dream which brother Kesler had lately. He dreamed that there was a sack of gold and a cat placed before him, and that he had the privilege of taking which he pleased, whereupon he took the cat, and walked off with her. Why did he take the cat in preference to the gold? Because he could eat the cat, but could not eat the gold. You may see about such times before you die. I wish to speak of these things while they are present with us, and I wish I could impress them upon your minds. The first season that we came here, I recollect that brother Brigham proclaimed the policy of our laying up grain, and told us to lay up a seven years' supply, and prepare for a famine. If our crops are now cut off, it will be one of the best things that has happened to this Church. When a servant of God counsels you, it is your duty to hear and obey his words." Heber C. Kimball JD 3:262 "A few years ago President Young gave counsel to the people of the Territory—most of whom agreed to it—to lay by seven years provisions. We were to have commenced three years ago, and were to have laid up one year's bread over and above the year's supply. The following year we were to add another year's supply, and so have continued until we had our seven years' supply laid up. How faithful the people have been in keeping this counsel I am not prepared to say, but I am afraid that few men in Israel, even among those who have raised breadstuffs and have had the power to control considerable quantities of it, had three years' bread laid aside when the grasshoppers made their descent this season and swept off half the grains, vegetables, and fruit raised in the Territory, and were prepared, if the whole had been swept off, to live for the next three years without laying in more bread. I am aware that some of our brethren thought this counsel extravagant; they considered that it could not be necessary to lay up such a quantity of bread; and some of them, instead of getting out lumber and making good substantial bins for the preservation of their wheat, turned out their means for teams, and freighted their bread to the north, to the east, and to the west; and not only so, but in many instances they gave it away, if they could only get half price for hauling it. Hundreds and thousands of sacks of flour have been hauled away, when it should have been stored up here against a day of want. I feel just as keenly on this matter now as when this counsel was given, and a little more so, for the army of the Lord—the grasshoppers—may have awakened my mind to the importance of the subject." Elder George A. Smith JD 12:141 "My faith does not lead me to think the Lord will provide us with roast pigs, bread already buttered, &c. He will give us the ability to raise the grain, to obtain the fruits of the earth, to make habitations, to procure a few boards to make a box, and when harvest comes, giving us the grain, it is for us to preserve it—to save the wheat until we have one, two, five, or seven years' provisions on hand, until there is enough of the staff of life saved by the people to bread themselves and those who will come here seeking for safety." Brigham Young JD 10:293-294 "Here are brother Amasa Lyman, brother Woodruff, and other brethren, who recollect Brigham testifying most strenuously in the Bowery—then occupied by the pioneers, when we first entered the Valley—of the propriety of this people laying up grain and other stores for seven years—because, said he, “The time has come when the words of the Prophets should be fulfilled, that the earth should rest every seventh year.” He said it was our duty to lay up grain for seven years, because he foresaw what would be; he foresaw what we came here for—viz., to be the saviors of men. I have spoken also of these things constantly. How oft have you heard these things proclaimed for four years past? And, after all we have said, who is there that has laid up grain to last them one year, much less two, previous to the late scarcity we have passed through? Those that did lay up a little had to feed that out, or be called scoundrels constantly. Some of the people considered a man a scoundrel that would not hand out the last kernel he had, or the last load of wood he had at his door. Brother Brigham, myself, and Jedediah have blazed away on this matter for the last four years; and how many have manifested their faith by their works? Have one of you got wheat laid up to last you seven years? No; not one of you have got enough laid up to last three years." Heber C. Kimball JD 5:173 Question 9. The six attributes of God are: 1. Knowledge 2. Faith or power 3. Justice 4. Judgment 5. Mercy 6. Truth Lectures on Faith, Lecture Fourth, Pgs. 41-42 Question 11. "Again President Young said Joseph the Prophet told me that the garden of Eden was in Jackson Co., Missouri, & when Adam was driven out of the garden of Eden He went about 40 miles to the Place which we Named Adam Ondi Ahman, & there built an Altar of Stone & offered Sacrifice. That Altar remains to this day. I saw it as Adam left it as did many others, & through all the revolutions of the world that Altar has not been disturbed. Joseph also said that when the City of Enoch fled & was translated it was whare (sic) the gulf of Mexico now is. It left that gulf a body of water." Wilford Woodruff’s Journal, 30 March 1873 "Joseph Smith said on another occasion, in the hearing of some of the saints still surveying, that the City of Enoch would again take its place in the identical spot from which it had been detached, now forming that chasm of the earth, filled with water, called the Gulf of Mexico.” Enoch & His City, Joseph Young, p. 12 Question 12. As I mentioned in the answers, many LDS confuse temptation with affliction. Children under the age of eight cannot be tempted, but they can be afflicted. First, let's go to the book of Mark 9:17-29 17 And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit; 18 And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not. 19 He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me. 20 And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming. 21 And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child. 22 And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us. 23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. 24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief. 25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him. 26 And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead. 27 But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose. 28 And when he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, Why could not we cast him out? 29 And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting. It should be noted that the New Testament of the King James Version was translated from the Greek language. In verse twenty-one, the words, “of a child,” were translated from the Greek adverb, “paidiothen,” which means, “from childhood, from early boyhood.” Paidiothen is from the noun “paidion,” which means “a little child, an infant, little one.” This indicates that the boy was a young child when he first became possessed. Next is a quote from Wilford Woodruff. "On the day following I parted with Elders Taylor and Fielding, who went to Liverpool, and with Elder Richards, who tarried in Preston. Elder Turley and I went to Manchester; it was the first time I had visited that city. There I met for the first time Elder William Clayton. As soon as I was introduced to him, he informed me that one of the sisters in that place was possessed of a devil. He asked me if I would not go and cast it out of her. He thought one of the Twelve Apostles could do most anything in such a case. I went with him to the house where the woman lay, in the hands of three men, in a terrible rage. She was trying to tear her clothing from her. I also found quite a number of Saints present, and some unbelievers, who had come to see the devil cast out and a miracle wrought. "Had I acted upon my own judgment I should have refrained from administering to her in the company of those present; but as I was a stranger there, and Brother Clayton presided over the branch, I joined with him in administering to the woman. The unbelief of the wicked who were present was so great that we could not cast the devil out of her, and she raged worse than ever; I then ordered the room to be cleared, and when the company, except the few attending her, had left the house, we laid hands upon her head, and in the name of Jesus Christ I commanded the devil to come out of her. The devil left, and she was entirely healed and fell asleep. "The next day being the Sabbath, the woman came before a large congregation of people, and bore testimony to what the Lord had done for her. We had a large assembly through the day and evening, to whom I preached the gospel. On Monday morning, the devil, not being satisfied with being cast out of the woman, entered into her little child, which was but a few months old. I was called upon to visit the child, and found it in great distress, writhing in its mother's arms. We laid hands upon it and cast the devil out; the evil spirits thereafter had no power over that household. This was done by the power of God, and not of man. We laid hands upon twenty in Manchester who were sick, and most of them were healed." Wilford Woodruff: History of His Life and Labors, Pgs. 114-115 Now two quotes from the life of Joseph Smith. Although it does not indicate the age of his child, all his children were young at the time this particular incident took place. They do not say possession occurred, but as I stated before, evil spirits afflict little children as these two quotes illustrate. "I will relate one circumstance that took place at Far West, in a house that Joseph had purchased, which had been formerly occupied as a public house by some wicked people. A short time after he got into it, one of his children was taken very sick; he laid his hands upon the child, when it got better; as soon as he went out of doors, the child was taken sick again; he again laid his hands upon it, so that it again recovered. This occurred several times, when Joseph inquired of the Lord what it all meant; then he had an open vision, and saw the devil in person, who contended with Joseph, face to face, for some time. He said it was his house, it belonged to him, and Joseph had no right there. Then Joseph rebuked Satan in the name of the Lord, and he departed and touched the child no more." Life of Heber C. Kimball Pg. 270 "Words of Helen Mar Whitney: We had struggles with evil spirits at Winter Quarters, which were something similar to what the Prophet Joseph Smith experienced in Far West, Missouri. He said the devil contended with him face to face, after he had afflicted his little child, claiming that he had the best right to a house which Joseph had purchased, it having been previously occupied by some wicked people. But the Prophet rebuked the devil in the name of the Lord, and he had to leave the house." (Hyrum L. Andrus and Helen Mae Andrus, comps., They Knew the Prophet, p. 176)

I agree, but almost all of this is directly from the Communist Party, USA. I even toned it down a bit.

Personally, anyone who leaves their children in the public socialist indoctrination system is asking for trouble. I home schooled my kids and it was the best thing I ever did. You can't overhaul the public school system. It needs to be scrapped and then we need to start over. Children are denied rights in school that they have outside of school.. They aren't allowed to defend themselves against bullies; they are subject to illegal search and seizure among other things; The overwhelming majority of the texts lean so far left you can't stand them on end. Home school your kids.

Can you correctly answer the following questions? 1. What language did Jesus speak? 2. What did the Ark of the Covenant contain? 3. What Philistine city-state did Goliath come from? 4. The continents of the Earth were divided in the days of which person? 5. What is the end time worldwide secret combination talked about in the book of Ether? 6. What was the very first miracle performed in this dispensation? 7. What was one of the most common priesthood miracles performed by Joseph F. Smith while on his mission to Hawaii? 8. How much food storage were the Saints originally counseled to have? 9. Joseph Smith taught that our Heavenly Father has six attributes. What is His first attribute? 10. Can the terms, “gift of discernment” and “spirit of discernment” be found in the scriptures? 11. Where was the City of Enoch located? 12. Can little children under the age of eight can be possessed by a devil or unclean spirit. 13. What subject did Joseph Smith spent the most time teaching the early Saints? 14. How old was Joseph F. Smith when he was called to serve a mission in Hawaii? Answers: 1. Galilean Aramaic 2. Tables of the Law, Aaron’s rod that budded, pot of manna 3. Gath 4. Peleg 5. Socialism/communism. Pres. Benson identified socialism/communism as the global secret combination talked about my Moroni. 6. Casting out an evil spirit from Newel K. Knight by Joseph Smith 7. Casting out evil spirits. According to Joseph F. Smith's own words, this was one of the most frequent miracles he performed. 8. Seven years 9. Knowledge 10 .No. The correct term is “ the gift of the discerning of spirits.” Joseph Smith never used either term. Both terms were first used by Elder George Q. Cannon in general conferences in 1883 and 1893. 11. Gulf of Mexico (statement from Joseph Smith) 12. Yes. Some people confuse temptation with affliction. Wilford Woodruff once cast out a devil from a child who was just a few months old. 13. The discerning of spirits. According to his cousin, Elder George A. Smith, Joseph Smith spent more time teaching about the discerning of spirits than any other. subject 14. Fifteen

Answer the following questions to determine if you are a closet communist. 1. Do you believe the government should put people and the environment before profits by companies? 2. Do you believe the government should legislate equality and social justice? 3. Do you believe the government should radically reform for profit companies to make them more worker friendly? 4. Do you believe the government should allow a person to stay on unemployment until he finds a job? 5. Do you believe the government should start public works programs to rebuild infrastructure, provide affordable housing, and clean up the environment? 6. Do you believe that you are free under democracy? 7. Do you believe the government should expand the food stamp program? 8. Do you believe the government should institute and control all health care insurance? 9. Do you believe the government should have the Social Security program? 10. Do you believe the government should give out cash welfare payments (AFDC)? 11. Do you believe the government should outlaw prayer in school? 12. Do you believe the government should treat behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists/psychologists can understand or treat? 13. Do you believe the government should mandate a high minimum wage? If you answered yes to any of these questions, you've got a problem. I went to various communist web sites and socialist organizations and made up these questions based on the content of those sites. Every one of these questions is about force, the same as Satan's plan. He wanted to require everyone to do the right things without giving anyone free agency to choose for themselves.

Wikipedia is nothing but a socialist rag and is quite often nothing more than a way for propaganda to be spread.

Yeah, you've got a point. Personally, if it were practical, I'd get the 100 round dual drum, C-Mag for my Glock. The only problem is that it's pretty difficult to conceal and would make me list to starboard.

This is like saying there is more than one way back to Heaven. Socialist "Christianity" teaches that you can get back to God by many different methods and that it really is just up to you to decide what God wants. Christ taught differently. Why ask for different opinions? It sounds like you've already made up your mind.

Probably one of the most difficult areas within the gift of discernment is the ability to discern between what it is that your own spirit is telling you and what the Holy Spirit is telling you. Elder George Q. Cannon talked about this. This is where a quote from Joseph Smith comes in regarding traditions of the Latter-day Saints. This applies to things you hear time after time in church and is generally accepted as "doctrine." However, some of what is considered to be "doctrine" is nothing more than the philosophy of men mingled with Mormonism. Something gets misquoted or someone said, "Well, I heard that Joseph Smith said...," or they read something on the internet that was quoted from something else, that was quoted from something else, that was...you get the picture. This is common in Sunday school. I have read books and articles from church members that contained various quotes from the apostles and prophets. When checking the references, I have found mistake after mistake. I've even heard a bishop stand up in Sacrament meeting and misquote Elder Oaks, which changed the entire subject into false doctrine. I always check up on references to see if they are misquoted or taken out of context. This keeps false doctrine out of my life and allows me to discern the truth of something. The problem is that very few LDS do this and take what they hear in church for granted.

How about sexual sin. For that you don't need to look into their hearts; just look at them and what they say. For that matter, Alma had something to say about it. Let's put this a different way. Sexual sin is second only to going to outer darkness and becoming a son of perdition. You can kill a person without shedding innocent blood and sexual sin is below that type of killing. As of 2010, 45% of all households were couples who are unmarried. There isn't much murder that goes on in the U.S.; only 4.7 per 100,000 people, yet 45% of all households cohabite. That means that 45% of all couples are committing the most heinous sin possible in the eyes of God and still not go to outer darkness. That doesn't include those who commit adultery in their hearts. That would jack up the percentage to the vast majority of the population! Then there are all the people in this world who steal. Theft is generally defined as the unlawful taking away and transporting of the personal property of another person, without their consent, in order to permanently deprive them of the item. People like tax evaders, shoplifters, embezzlers, receiving stolen property, non-tithe payers, burglary, intellectual property theft, identity theft, fraud, oppressing the hireling in his wages, etc. How about those who love and tell a lie, bearing false witness, deceitfulness, etc.? Murder is a poor judge for the wickedness of this world.

Maybe you should watch a different documentary. I personally know different.

Yup. What about the sin next to murder? It is probably the most universally flouted commandment on this earth.

That's news to me. It all depends on your training. Most cops only train with stationary targets. I've shot at moving targets, which is not easy, but can be done consistently with enough practice. In the police academy, one of the drills is to shoot at targets 50 feet away. I fired a perfect score of 300, which means I had to keep all my shots in an area of about 5-6 inches from that range. I couldn't do it at first, but after a week, I was able to consistently keep my rounds in the kill zone.

Wicked people are those consigned to the Telestial Kingdom, the inhabitants of which will be as the stars in the heavens. Liars, thieves, those who commit sexual sin, prideful people, etc., all go to the Telestial Kingdom. There are a lot of wicked people who have died.

There is an explanation for why evil has increased in the world. It has to do with the number of wicked people who die in their sins. There are two types of evil spirits: devils and unclean or foul spirits. Devils are the third part of the hosts of heaven cast out for rebellion. Unclean or fouls spirits are the spirits of wicked people who died in their sins. This was taught originally by Joseph Smith and by nearly every apostle and prophet since. Here is a quote from Parley P. Pratt. If you die a wicked person, you become subject to Satan and are compelled to do his bidding. If at first you do not want to do his will, he will torment your spirit to the point that you will acquiesce. Wickedness has increased in the world because more and more wicked people are dying. In turn, they become unclean spirits and do Satan's bidding, afflicting, tormenting, tempting, influencing, etc. The more the wicked die, the more unclean spirits there are to cause trouble. I believe that people of faith are decreasing in number and resolve. I think this is self evident in the increasing number of "Christians" who support gay marriage, cohabitate, seek out pornography, lie, steal, cheat, etc. There are more perversions and idle past times to distract and tempt those who would follow Christ. The number of unclean spirits has increased dramatically in proportion to the current population, consequently there are more per person to cause affliction.

There is a lot of interesting ideas going around the Church when it comes to various points of the gospel. You have to be careful because many of those ideas are not based on doctrine but traditional answers that get passed on from one person to another. Those ideas morph into something other than the truth and finally becomes "doctrine." Joseph Smith had a bit to say regarding the Gift of Tongues. He said that the Gift of Tongues is the “smallest,” or least important of all the spiritual gifts (HC 5:30) and is primarily for speaking to other people in their own language. Also, he stated that there must be an interpreter present to give the meaning of what was spoken. Lastly, anything spoken in tongues can not become doctrine because the Devil can also speak in tongues. I've included some quotes from the Prophet, Joseph Smith.

Gunfights involving the police are a very interesting subject. One of the reasons cops train constantly is that in a typical gun fight, 80% of all shots are missed, which is why you need a high capacity magazine. You get a little nervous when someone is trying to kill you, along with both you and your target moving around. In these situations, putting steel on target is difficult even though the average distance in a gunfight is only 21 feet.. When I went through the police academy we trained to shoot from distances of 5 to 150 feet. We concentrated, though, on distances from the 5 to 21 feet range. Something else that's interesting is that the caliber of the bullet doesn't really matter when it comes to stopping the perp unless you are using a magnum round, a rifled slug, or a .50 BMG. I read a study of 20 years of police involved shootings from NYC. The results of the study was that caliber had no bearing on stopping a suspect. It was shot placement; another reason to constantly train with firearms. This is why I use only with a 9mm. I also don't do much in the way of using the sights. I'm a point shooter and I train only for shooting at the 5 to 21 feet range. This is because I'm no longer a cop and my purpose is not to arrest a perp. If something goes down, it most likely will be up close and personal. At the same time, you are right about the number of rounds it sometimes takes to put a perp down. In the Miami-Dade shootout involving the FBI and two bank robbers, one perp was hit twice with 2 non-survivable wounds, He lived for two full minutes, wounding and killing two or three more agents before he died. Another example is Cole Younger. He was shot 11 times and lived. It also works the opposite way. While in the academy, a 911 tape was played of an undercover officer who lost his radio and had been shot. I don't remember all the circumstances, but he made it to a pay phone and reported in. You could hear the absolute desperation in his voice. He was fully convinced he was going to die. He told the operator to tell his family goodbye and to tell his wife he loved her. You could hear him fade away in spite of everything the operator could do to encourage him to hold on. The officer died while on the phone. The autopsy revealed something very tragic. The officer's wound was non-life threatening. He should have lived through the shooting, but he was so convinced that if you get shot, you automatically die, so, he died. In any type of emergency situation, your mental preparedness is vital. If you aren't mentally ready for a situation, you get surprised and that will kill you.

My faith is not blind. I already have a testimony of the gospel and when something new comes along, I get a confirmation as to its truth. The best way to keep from being led blindly is to follow the prophet. He cannot lead you astray.

It depends on the totality of the circumstances. Cases of outright self-defense are usually cut and dried, and the DA won't do anything. It also depends on the laws of the state you live in. If you live in a state with a "castle doctrine," meaning that you do not have a duty to retreat from any place where you have a legal right to be there, then you are pretty much covered. In Utah, in cases such as burglary, the law presumes that you were legitimately in fear of your life if you shoot the burglar. What most people don't realize is that a private citizen has just as much right to defend himself as any cop. Additionally, many states including the socialist state of California, have laws on the books that prevent a criminal or his heirs and assigns from suing a person who uses a weapon legally in self-defense. I was arresting a man for DUI when he began fighting me. During the fight, I accidentally broke his arm. Once he got out of the hospital and then out of jail, he tried suing me. He tried going to four different attorneys and not one would take his case. This was near Grass Valley, CA. So, defending yourself isn't automatically a death sentence. It all depends on the totality of the circumstances.

I was never trained in this manner. I was taught to fire until the threat is neutralized. If that took one shot or an entire magazine. What you don't want to do is empty your magazine if at all possible. That's a good way to get killed, which is something I'm allergic to. However, you are correct that you shoot only to stop a threat. You also never shoot to simply wound. That is something a sniper is trained to do depending on the circumstances. I've seen snipers shoot the gun out of a perp's hand and then I've seen them shoot center mass. Again, it all depends on the circumstances.

Sorry about that. As I look at what I wrote, I realize that I should have been a bit clearer. From a legal standpoint, you never tell a cop that you were shooting to kill. You were shooting in fear of your life and that you were shooting to stop the threat to your life AND you continued to shoot until the threat was neutralized. The fact that the perp died as a result of you defending yourself is an unfortunate consequence. It isn't a pleasant feeling to shoot someone even if you simply wound them. That said, I still would not have it in my head to shoot to kill. That type of mindset can lead to all sorts of problems like hate, anger and being too quick on the trigger. Something to consider in regards to this mindset. While this type of situation isn't war, I still think that something Pres. Heber J. Grant said to the young men going to war during WWII applies. He said that if you kill with hate in your heart, it is murder. You can be angry, but still not hate, yet anger can lead to hate. Capt. Moroni was angry with the Nephite dissenter, Amalickiah, who became the Lamanite king, but Moroni didn't hate while waging war.

I was a cop for 13 years and from my experience, the police are not really even first responders. They are the clean up crew; they clean the mess up after the crime has been committed. In all my years of experience, I can count the number of times I happened on a crime in progress, or responded in time to a crime in progress on both hands (not counting traffic stops). More often than I care for, the perp isn't ever caught, especially if he is an above average criminal. The best way to protect yourself is get educated on how to protect yourself in the first place. I DO NOT recommend everyone run out and buy a weapon if you are afraid to use it. A perp will take it and use it against you. If you do decide to arm yourself, learn the law; learn what you can and cannot do in your defense. After that, learn how to use your weapon and then practice, practice, practice every month. Something else to remember: if you ever do have to shoot in self-defense, your never shoot to kill. You are shooting to stop the perpetrator. You should have been trained to shoot center mass. Of course, this is where all the vital organs are, but this also is where your rounds must go in order to stop the perp. If he happens to die as a result of you stopping the attack, well, that's too bad.