Amillia

I agree. I really can't stand her parents and I can see why Michael has had to fight for every right for his wife ~ which would have been normally his without a fight.

Hello Outshined, I FULLY understand your comment and find no malice of intent in any way. 1. I stated that I stood in front of the Lord and spoke to him as a man speaks with a man which is hard for many to believe. 2. I stated that the Lord would do a new thing which is hard for many to believe. 3. I stated that if women have the ability to prophesy, they may very well have the authority to serve God in whatever capacity he chooses which is hard for many to believe. So yes, I do agree with your assessment. Yet Joseph did the first two things and scripture promises the third. We are in the day of "great endowment", the kingdom is quickly coming, and many of our traditions will shortly fade away that have held back Zion from emerging in our midst. In Christ I Serve, Thunderfire So what group or religion do you associate yourself with?

He is going to be such a heart throb! What a handsome little dude!

I doubt it. Certainly they'll make another "Terri's" law but after that we'll all probably forget about this and it won't be brought up until the next PVS person's life hangs on the balance of a judge's decision. Actually, I've already heard of a group pushing for a law that "aldulterous" spouses not be allowed to speak for comatose partners... This was a very inflammatory subject even here at LDS Talk, and I expect it to be bandied about for some time. I can't understand how anyone can use what her husband was doing to validate leaving her in that horrid conditon for endless years to come. I am so thankful she has been allowed to find true life~

You have heard of Satan coming to Moses?...as an angel of light?.lo here and lo there eh?

I will have to do some extensive searching on this one....and I don't have time....but I know it is in one of many books....like JoD...or Joseph Smith's early writings...or journals...or early apostles....writtings....there is just so much I would have to go back through...I did extensive studying about 15 years ago....and came across it... but I can't remember where....I also came across BY teaching that other church had the Aaronic priesthood already....

I've never heard of this, but I'd be interested in seeing some quotes. Do you have any? Sure....Here are two....I haven't a lot of time today....but there are lots of them in the JoDs....by severl different speakers... I will start with this from the author of my reference book " ...criticism implies that there may be little in the signs and token which contribute anyting worthwhile in the modern endowment experience.Unfortunately, these evaluations may be all too ture, because the majority of late -twentieth century Latter-day Saints, most of whom live in a technological society submersed in rational humanism, possiblymay view the signs and tokens as having only the most superficial impact on their religious lives, yet alone intheir daily secular pursites.... This was not, however, the perspective of Joseph Smith and his contemporaries, who viewed the signs and tokens not only as the focus of the temple endowment, but also as vital to their lives as endowed Mormons. So important were the signs and tokens to Joseph Smith and the twelve Apostles that they called them the keys of the priesthood. Hoseph Smith stated that the 'keys are certain signs and wores.'...Heber C. Kimball also stated that the 'signs and tokens....are the keys of the Priesthood.' Bringhamd Young described the ritual context in which the keys of the priesthood are couched: Then go on and build the Temples of the Lord, that you may receive the endowments in store for you and possess the keys of the eternal Priesthood, that you may receive every word, sign, and token, and be made acquainted with the laws of angels, and the kingdom of our Father and our God, <span style='color:red'>and know how to pass from one degree to another, and enter fully into the joy of the Lord." Journal of Discourses, 26 vols. (SLC facsimile edition, 1967), 2:315. "Finally, Joseph Smith explained there was a further extension of the authenticating aspects of the tokens. He said it was necessary to have received certain keys in order to pass by the angels into celestial glory." Ehat and Cook, Words of Joseph Smith, p. 108. "Such doctrine was also the teaching of his associates. Brigham Young stated on numerous occasions that there were sentinels or porters which guarded the way to the celestial kingdom and to whom persons will have to prove their knowledge of key-words, signs and tokens before goaining admittance." Journal of Discurses, 2:31, 315; 5:331-332; 6:63; 7:289; 8:224; 10:172; 12:163. In some of these sources BY claimed that one of the sentinels would be Joseph Smith, as wee as other prophets, such as Peter, Abraham, Jesus and at length Adam....See also Orson Hydes's statement in IBID., 6:154-155. "He stated that we would be tested as we "are conducted along from this probation to other probations's, or from one dispensation to another dispensation by those who conducted those dispensations." Journal of Discourses, 6:63 "A recent priesthood studymanuel echoes Brigham Young's sentiments, "We will be judged as we pass from one stage of existence to the next---evaluations of our progress at each step along the way." Put on the Strength O Zion: 1985 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide (SLC: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1984, p. 154.

I've never heard of this, but I'd be interested in seeing some quotes. Do you have any? Amillia, I will have to say that I also strongly disagree with the notion of progressing from "kingdom to kingdom". That is a false doctrine, even if BRM agrees! LOL! In my Gospel Essentials class I was teaching on this very thing last sunday. The manual, and everything I have ever read teaches us that the body we are resurrected with, will determine the glory we shall inherit. We do NOT know however, if there is progression "within" kingdoms of glory, but my understanding has always been that there is NO progression from Kingdom TO kingdom. In the spirit prison we know that the spirits there can "progress". They are in a different situation...they have not yet been resurrected...so there is time there for them to progress to the extent they can. randy Sorry....but JS, BY and JT all taught them very clearly.....and they got it from God himself....

McConkie is the heretic....most of his books was edited for over 700 false doctrines....you know he is the one who taught that the blacks were fence sitters in the pre-existent war between Satan and Christ... before they came here and therefore received the black skin...and that they would never receive the priesthood....so pooooy on Brucy.... Everyone of the first apostles and JS taught that there would be progression from one kingdom to the next....but it would be according to their desire to do so... Sides....what good would baptism for the dead.....or teaching those in the spirit prison do.....if there were no progression after this life??? If McConkie is such a heretic and his teachings are false and inaccurate, why hasn't the brethren spoken up and discredited him? Hm? He was the son in law to President Smith at the time...... Now he is dead.....so what the heck.... I just don't allow anyone using him as their main reference.....to have any credibility....

McConkie is the heretic....most of his books was edited for over 700 false doctrines....you know he is the one who taught that the blacks were fence sitters in the pre-existent war between Satan and Christ... before they came here and therefore received the black skin...and that they would never receive the priesthood....so pooooy on Brucy.... Everyone of the first apostles and JS taught that there would be progression from one kingdom to the next....but it would be according to their desire to do so... Sides....what good would baptism for the dead.....or teaching those in the spirit prison do.....if there were no progression after this life???

Of course, so would I. But rather than living decades of the rest of my life brain dead, I would prefer the temporary pain of starving to death over several days...and hope that they would medicate me so I would sleep and not feel any pain. I SO agree!

Huge??? Last I checked, there were only around 12 million members in the entire world. Yes Huge. It is world wide ~ and more vibrant and involved with each individual than most churches. Not to mention more publications than any other church has, in more languages.

I don't get you at all. YOu left off thepoint about them being apostles giving their whole life !~ and say that you agree? then you use that statement to endorse critiquing?mass of confusion is what you are.....

This thread should have been called: Find what you don't agree with !

The promise is what good it is. There is a future even in Heaven. You know that an eternity is only 5 billion years or so, right? Well, there are keys given in the temple which give the power to move from one kingdom to the next as you progress ~ because there is progression even after this life, for everyone. The punishment for those who don't do what they should according to the knowledge given them is: They will be lagging a bit behind ~ and just as your married children aren't under your roof here, (hopefully) they won't be there either ~ if you are in a higher kingdom you will be able to visit them as often as you like ~ They just won't be able to pop in on you ~ :)

Here are the answers according to the e-mail: ANSWERS 1. Bottom 2. 50 3. Right 4. Blue, red, white, yellow, black, &gold 5. 1, 0 6. Right 7. 20 8. Red 9. 88 10. Clockwise (north of the equator) 11. Towards bottom right 12. 12 (no #1) 13. Left 14. Clockwise as you look at it 15. The Bluenose 16. 8 17. Left 18. 5 19. 6 20. Bashful 21. 8 22. Ace of spades 23. Left 24. Loon 25. *, # 26. 3 27. Counter

Two questions: Which one of you will trade places with her? If you were given the choice right now, which would you choose for yourself? Life as Terri exists, or death?

PD, I agree that the judge blew it big time. In your opinion, why do you think he failed to make the right decision? 1. I think Mr. Schiavo's sudden recollection of Terri's "wishes" not to be kept alive is not credible. 2. I think Mr. Schiavo has enough conflicts of interest with respect to what happens to Terri, especially now that he's moved on with his life, that he should have been relieved as legal guardian. 3. I think the court made up its mind that Terri was PVS in the first hearing, and like most judges, refused to take a second look. 4. I think that no matter what the law provides, in this case the law is wrong. As between a nominal husband of five years who is now living with another person, and devoted parents, the parties with the stronger moral claim to act for Terri are her parents. As for the people who've made variations on the "would you really want to live like that" -- that's an argument that the legal presumption in these cases should be that a minimally conscious person would want to die. Without any exception that I'm aware of, though, the legal presumption in every state is just the opposite -- that the person would want to continue medical treatment, a presumption that must be overcome by clear and convincing evidence. Thus, the "she MUST have wanted to die" argument isn't particularly relevant here; the time to make that argument would have been before the state legislature when the presumption was established. Since a presumption in favor of death was rejected, it can't be used as evidence of what Terri would have wanted. Would I want to live in Terri's state? Obviously not. I wouldn't have wanted to cut my knuckle near to the bone Saturday trying to fix the dent some jerk put in my dear Tacoma, but I did. All things being equal, I'd rather be alive, healthy and conscious. Given the choice between dying and lingering in a twilight state, I think I'd hope to be killed outright. "Rage against the dying of the light" only goes so far as advice; at some point, the light is so dim you might as well not bother. But there's an independent variable here: Terri's parents. If I knew that in lingering in some marginally conscious state, the people I love would be happier than the would be if I were dead and buried (as apparently Terri's parents derive some comfort from having Terri at least partly with them) I think I would choose Terri's position, especially if I knew I wouldn't know the difference. Give me the full "Weekend at Bernie's" treatment, if it makes my family happy; what does a vegetable care about what happens to its body for the short time before it's turned over to the worms, who'll surely treat it much worse? I think what captures people's attention here is that the law is marching coldly and rationally (according to its lights) forward, ignoring the pain it's causing to parents who I think it's clear love Terri more than her nominal husband, and ignoring the plain fact that it's starving somebody's daughter to death against their wishes. I don't think it really has anything to do with the husband's problems. It is about keeping a semi-existing being, in a state of inhumane conditions which no one in their right mind would choose over death.

I think you are right in a way, but I don't know that it is even this ~ It is the fact that the person theirself is probably not existing, just living.Tonight on the news it was stated by two doctors that Terri is not really living, only existing in a very non-existing way. She can't feel, think, cognitize, acknowledge anything because all of her brain for these functions are gone. They showed the xrays of her brain next to a healthy brain and there was nothing there. BTW Terri isn't being starved to death. They say she will die from dehydration way before she will die from mal nutrition or starving. She doesn't feel starved, because she doesn't feel. She doesn't feel hungry, because she doesn't feel. She doesn't feel thirsty, because she doesn't feel anything. She doesn't even know she is being refused food and water.

No one with a brain injury can make progress without treatment. Well 15 years ago, lets talk, but today, it's too late and everyone agrees on that one. If she were to live 15 more years, she would not regain anything, only deteriorate more.

Pain cause by her surviving her brain injury? So if something it painful for others to see just look away or better yet kill them? Since when did we become a nation and people so intolerant to people with a disability that it is just easier to have them dead? She isn't really living SB.

That is a very pathetic and blind list you have there.First, if you don't like to listen to what is taught or spoken at GC, don't listen ~ I don't think anyone is tying you to a chair in front of the TV. Elder Faust does what he feels he is supposed to do ~ and since you will never walk in the man's shoes ~ get off his back. Consider that most anti's use all their energy to sully and disparagethe name of someone who cannot defend himself and his reputation because he is dead and cannot come back to do so! ~he is a man named Joseph Smith. Ignorant rantings like yours is much worse than what you call gossipy whisperings . I find his talks very good and uplifting. Do you feel a need to know who is being used as an example? Jesus taught much the same way ~ through parables ~ and the guilty were offended. :) Get a life and leave those who are doing their best to lead a huge church in old age ~ (when most are just sitting in their easy chair moving only to let the gas escape!) and do what you can to uplift....instead of tear down!!! Any moron can tear down the work of others ~ it takes a real person of character to spend their life in service to others like the apostles do.

Again, you are letting him post under his wife, or letting him speak thru his wife. What is the difference? I voted "No." I also think you should ban anyone assisting him to post here. I recommend he posts at RfM. Not that they actually need an extra injection of unbridled hatred, but he would probably feel more comfortable grazing among his own herd mentality. Also, look what he managed to accomplish as a monitor on your message board, Marsha. It sorta, kinda disappeared, didn't it? I go with your thought about the posting under someone else ~ it doesn't seem right.

I can't see why she has to be awake during this process ~ they could give her morphene or something to keep her sedated until she quiety passed away. In all actuallity, I find it very disturbing that they have allowed this to go on for 15 years. I also believe many are using her situation to push forth their political and personal views ~ total rot I say!

Think as you wish. Sometimes it is just easier to turn a blind eye. Her condition is the way it is because she has not been given proper treatment. What do you think about Michael not allowing Terri¡Çs family to spend time with her while she dies this SLOW and PAINFUL Death? Is letting her leave this earth by starvation and without treatment right for her? I know there has been a lot of pain caused by her surviving ~ that much I do know.