Amillia

In Talmage's ARTICLES OF FAITH, in the first edition he wrote, "advancement from grade to grade within any kingdom, and from kingdom to kingdom will be provided for." (1st edition pp. 420-421) Also from WW Journal: "Pres. Young thought none would inherit this earth when it became celestial and translated into the presence of God but those who would be crowned as Gods and able to endure the fulness of the presence of God except they might be permitted to take with them some servants for whom they would be held responsible. All others would have to inherit another kingdom, even that kingdom agreeing with the law which they had kept. Yet he thought they would eventually have the privilege of proving themselves worthy and advancing to a celestial kingdom but it would be a slow progress."

I find it very hard to believe that Terri was just a shell. I also believe that is why I believe that she was murdered because she was "in there". The rest you said about the money I disagree with but you are entitled to your opinion. :) D'ats O tay!

Wow! A voice of reason! Well stated USN!

The parents made it a public spectacle and I would think that they must have experience more pain seeing their daughter suffer in such a horrid body for decades, more than they would experience pain at seeing her released from it. I can only rejoice for Terri at this point. Had not the family gotten all up in arms and started another fight, they would have been allowed to stay. But they were so contentious they were escorted out. Amillia, I will discuss this with you because you are not attacking me personally. According to one of the posts here the decision was made by the court that Michael was the only one allowed to be with her when she died. The post went on to say something like this...when the hospice staff felt that Terri was close to death, they went to get Michael who was in another room within the hospice center. He then threw the family out and posed for pictures... It seems a bit self serving to me. I would have made a fuss myself if I was being thrown out of the presence of my child or sibling as she took her last breath court order or not. It is my opinion that Michael is doing some things to hurt the Schindlers. Terri is catholic and her family would like to have her buried and not cremated. What would be his motive to over stepping her religious preferences? There is so much history we don't know; I can't really side with the parents because they have done so many creepy things ~ but I guess it is all a matter of what you know and don't know ~ isn't it?

Yes, I remember you telling me about that on IM. My point is that a spirit can leave(for a limited time only) without a person being dead. It is the heartbeat that determines life. I don't know if it can really be considered life if the heart beat contnues ~ when there is no brain activity. God has to decide I guess.

Why don't you? I already have my answers. I haven't put up all the quotes that have led me to my conclusion ~ one of the strongest ones coming from John Taylor who actually stated we would be able to move from kingdom to kingdom. It only makes sense if you believe in doing endowments for the dead. They would have to move from kingdom to kingdom in order to use all the keys and tokens given to them. We all will.

And some should! But not this one... Who says? Hmmmmm, me? And you would be? (authority please)

Are you kidding? You're complaining about me complaining, aren't you? I am telling you that you don't have to be here. Is that complaining? LOL Twisiting things around doesn't get you anywhere but deeper in, so, if you really don't like the discussion, unscrew yourself from the hole you have dug yourself into and boogie!

The parents made it a public spectacle and I would think that they must have experience more pain seeing their daughter suffer in such a horrid body for decades, more than they would experience pain at seeing her released from it. I can only rejoice for Terri at this point.Had not the family gotten all up in arms and started another fight, they would have been allowed to stay. But they were so contentious they were escorted out.

And some should! But not this one... Who says?

I do believe that Lazarus was really dead and it was the Lord who brought him and others back to life. In the medical community, they pronounce someone dead after their heart stops beating... so they are alive until that point right? I don't know if the heart is the pivital link to life or not. My son's spirit left his body while his heart was still pumping. They call it an out of body experience as well. He floated up to the ceiling of the school and looked down on his body. To those around him, he was just unconscious. So what is death of the body? What about the stories of Alma the elder? He lay as if dead. What about the stories of those Ammon converted? What is death? Can we really know? I think in Terri's case it was a good thing to stop the farcical mimic of life and allow a complete end to her existence ~ for her, not her husband or parents, but for her anad I think her husband was concerned for her, not himself.

No? Well, who's forcing you then? (and please don't roll your eyes at me; I may be tempted to call a paramedic) No one is forcing me and I am not the one complaining ~ and go ahead ~ call the paramedics your footing the bill right?

And some should!

I think the husband had the right to get a lawyer if he was the responsible party. Which he was. He was doing what he felt he should do and used the means to take care of Terri with that money even if it meant taking care of her by releasing her from that dispicable shell of a body.I see no compromise in ethics to use the money for Terri's care here. It was for benefiting her the best way he could.

Bull roar!

Well no one is forcing you to open these threads.

There is no way of knowing what was in the syringe. Even if my mother had asked, they wouldn't have told her the truth. When I told my brother about it, (he is in medicine) he got really angry that I would "take the dignity away from dad's death by suggesting such a thing"... They protect their own you know?

I believe she died when Father in Heaven took her spirit. When that was, only she and the Lord would know. I could guess that it was sometime between 1990 and 2005. Honestly, we could debate this till the cows come home, but it wouldn't ever come to a difinitive answer. How could we know except the Spirit told us, and since it really isn't our business, the Spirit probably won't tell us. Amillia, Thank you for your reply. I believe the same thing that you do about a person dies when Heavenly Father takes their spirit. I tend to believe that we don't actually die until our hearts stop beating. You take someone who has a near death experience, and for a time, their spirit leaves their body right? Yes, but are they dead for real? What about Lazarus and others who were raised from the dead or brought back by the Lord as in NDE? It really is God's territory isn't it? I think there are some things we just shouldn't have any control over, yet we think we are wise enough to give and take life, even if it isn't real life we are giving. It is all part of our testing. We are given knowledge, but with all of our getting of this knowledge, are we getting understanding? I really don't think we are doing too well in that catagory. I think we have to have courage to change what we can, serenity to accept the things we cannot change and wisdom to know the difference. I think wisdom is both knowledge and the use of it to the benefit, not damage, of all people. However, agency of man, keeps all the world swirling around in some pretty questionable decisions. We all do stupid things, we all make bad decisions, and sometimes we all are fooled into thinking we know better than someone else how it should be done. But sometimes we can look back upon those times and see that we really didn't know better.

I don't see anything wrong with what the doctors did. It was more ethical than what we experienced with my dad. My father, was recoverying from a heart attack which damaged his heart. He had been resucitated three etimes in the abliance. He expressed that he didn't want to stay any longer ont he earth, that he had accomplished all that he had to do while in the hospital. He hated the hospital and wanted to go home. They told him his heart had been damaged so severely that it was only a matter of a few weeks at best, before he would die, either from another heart attack or just slip away. But the night before he was to de released...at 3am a nurse came into his room with a long needle. My mother was sitting next to his bed, she had felt she was to stay with him that night, and she watched as this nurse said that this would help him with his discomfort, and she put that needle into his lower abdomon. He died just minutes later. I think it had nothing to do with any of what you have spoken about above. I think there are millions of medical personal who think they can play god. And they have been doing it for centuries.

I believe she died when Father in Heaven took her spirit. When that was, only she and the Lord would know. I could guess that it was sometime between 1990 and 2005. Honestly, we could debate this till the cows come home, but it wouldn't ever come to a difinitive answer. How could we know except the Spirit told us, and since it really isn't our business, the Spirit probably won't tell us.

I do not find it difficult to accept that Jesus could appear, as a person, to someone living today.I am not uncertain of this because I have not yet been told whether or not the person is LDS or not. My opinion would not alter if I found he/she was LDS. It would not strengthen my belief that they had seen Jesus and not Satan.

I will have to do some extensive searching on this one....and I don't have time....but I know it is in one of many books....like JoD...or Joseph Smith's early writings...or journals...or early apostles....writtings....there is just so much I would have to go back through... I did extensive studying about 15 years ago....and came across it... but I can't remember where....I also came across BY teaching that other church had the Aaronic priesthood already.... Good Sister, I read and re-read your quotes. I am sorry...they do not speak of progressing from one Kingdom of glory to the next. A careful study of D&C 76 and 131 teaches this clearly. Again, it has not been revealed if a person can progress "within" a Kingdom of Glory...IMO..we can. But the Scriptures are clear on the fact that there is no progression from Kingdom to Kingdom. I guess there are those who disagree, and we are they.

The Holiday =========== In Florida, an atheist became incensed over the preparation for Easter and Passover holidays and decided to contact the local ACLU about the discrimination inflicted on atheists by the constant celebrations afforded to Christians and Jews with all their holidays while the atheists had no holiday to celebrate. The ACLU jumped on the opportunity to once again pick up the cause of the godless and assigned their sharpest attorneys to the case. The case was brought before a wise judge who after listening to the long, passionate presentation of the ACLU lawyers, promptly banged his gavel and declared, "Case dismissed!" The lead ACLU lawyer immediately stood and objected to the ruling and said, "Your honor, how can you possibly dismiss this case? Surely the Christians have Christmas, Easter, and many other observances. And the Jews--why in addition to Passover they have Yom Kippur and Hanukkah... and yet my client and all other atheists have no such holiday!" The judge leaned forward in his chair and simply said, "Obviously your client is too confused to know about, or for that matter, even celebrate the atheists' holiday!" The ACLU lawyer pompously said, "We are aware of no such holiday for atheists, just when might that be, your honor?" The judge said, "Well it comes every year on exactly the same date - April 1st!" The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." Psalm 14:1, Psalm 53:1 Happy April Fools day!

They are such slimes!

According to the news media ~ they were kicked out because they started a great big fight ~ even the news media and lawyers stated this ~ so I don't know what you would probably say was the reason, but really those parents are creeps.