Amillia

Wow. Isaiah's "wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight" comes to mind... Yeah, interesting how scriptures fit when you want them to. But I am not wise in my own mind ~ I learned everything I know the hard way. Not very wise ~ but once I got it, I got it good.

ROFL!

Good point! God is no respector of persons. :)

I voted no because I think he is incapable of posting anything but anti- stuff, even did it through Jennifer ~

I swear before God almighty that I have always put HIS will in religous matters before my own. You are wrong Amillia. No I'm not. But you won't be able to know that for a while.

Well from my experience, I have to say ~ they are in the dark and have been blinded ~ but there is always the final day when the only one who can tell them anything will tell them everything ~

I want to thank all of you who have taken the time and trouble to send me your darn chain letters over the past two years. Thank you for making me feel safe, secure, blessed, and wealthy. Because of your concern... I no longer can drink Coca Cola because it can remove toilet stains. I no longer drink Pepsi or Dr Pepper since the people who make these products are atheists who refuse to put "Under God" on their cans. I no longer drink anything out of a can because I will get sick from the rat feces and urine. I no longer use Saran wrap in the microwave because it causes cancer. I no longer check the coin return on pay phones because I could be pricked with a needle infected with AIDS. I no longer use cancer-causing deodorants even though I smell like a water buffalo on a hot day. I no longer go to shopping malls because someone will drug me with a perfume sample and rob me. I no longer receive packages from UPS or FedEx since they are actually Al Qaeda in disguise. I no longer shop at Target since they are French and don't support our American troops. I no longer answer the phone because someone will ask me to dial a stupid number for which I will get the phone bill from hell with calls to Jamaica, Uganda, Singapore, and Uzbekistan. I no longer eat pre-packaged foods because the estrogens they contain will turn me gay. I no longer eat KFC because their chickens are actually horrible mutant freaks with no eyes or feathers. I no longer date the opposite sex because they will take my kidneys and leave me taking a nap in a bathtub full of ice. I no longer have any sneakers -- but that will change once I receive my free replacement pair from Nike. I no longer buy expensive cookies from Neiman Marcus since I now have their recipe. I no longer worry about my soul because I have 363,214 angels looking out for me and St. Theresa's novena has granted my every wish. Thanks to you, I have learned that God only answers my prayers if I forward an email to seven of my friends and make a wish within five minutes. (Geeze, the BIBLE did not mention it works that way!) I no longer have any savings because I gave it to a sick girl who is about to die in the hospital (for the 1,387,258th time). I no longer have any money at all, but that will change once I receive the $15,000 that Microsoft and AOL are sending me for participating in their special e-mail program. Yes, I want to thank all of you soooooooo much for looking out for me! I will now return the favor. If you don't send this e-mail to at least 1200 people in the next 60 seconds, a large bird with diarrhea will crap on your head at 5:00 pm this afternoon and the fleas of a thousand camels will infest your armpits. I know this will occur because it actually happened to a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of my next door neighbor's ex-mother-in-law's 8th husband's 2nd cousin's 3rd husband's ex-wife's mother's beautician!!!

How can I deny anyone anything? ~am I all powerful? LOLI am just telling you that if you study things out with the Spirit of submission and humility, you won't get lost ~ as I have seen many do.

Very very good! :)

Disbelief in the implausible is equally or less tenable than belief in unlikely superstition? Really? Just words ~ of the unbeliever swirling around and around. ~

He's refering to what Catholics call Sacred Tradition, that holds that Christ lived a celibate life. Both Orthodox and Roman Catholics believe that Celibacy is a higher law than Marriage. We both know that the Bible is silent on the matter. (Though I believe that one must admit that Christ being married seems highly unlikely given his purpose for being here.) Oh He was married alright. He was the perfect example of everything. He did only what He saw His Father do, and we didn't come from nowhere ~ if you catch my drift ~

There is a difference between then and now ~ we have the gospel to enlighten our minds and give us further light and knowledge.

Three men die together in an accident and go to heaven. When they get there, St. Peter says, "We only have one rule here in heaven: don't step on the ducks!" So they enter heaven, and sure enough, there are ducks all over the place. It is almost impossible not to step on a duck, and although they try their best to avoid them, the first man accidentally steps on one. Along comes St. Peter with the ugliest woman he ever saw. St. Peter chains them together and says, "Your punishment for stepping on a duck is to spend eternity chained to this ugly woman!" The next day, the second man steps accidentally on a duck and along comes St. Peter, who doesn't miss a thing. With him is another extremely ugly woman. He chains them together with the same admonishment as for the first man. The third man has observed all this and, not wanting to be chained for all eternity to an ugly woman, is very, VERY careful where he steps. He manages to go months without stepping on any ducks, but one day St. Peter comes up to him with the most gorgeous woman he has ever laid eyes on ... tall, curvy, perfect skin, and a dream come true. St. Peter chains them together without saying a word. The happy man says, "I wonder what I did to deserve being chained to you for all of eternity?" The woman says, "I don't know about you, but I stepped on a duck!"

Nanny 911 clearly teaches the principles of teaching children respect. It starts with parents teaching this principle by example. They have to show each other respect, and show respect to the children. I don't believe this includes allowing children to run amuck. Infact, allowing children to run amuck is one of the most definite ways of showing disrespect for them. Showing consistent, caring, firm standards ~expecting and accepting only the best standards, is one of the ways to get children to show respect for themselves and others. One example: When a child does a sloppy job in cleaning his room, if you point out how it isn't up to the standard such a fine lad would produce ~ using only positive imaging of who this child is and how he should treat himself better by keeping his living space in order ~ ~ then the child starts to see himself as better and more respected person and when he feels respected by himself and others, he shows that respect to others. I heard it stated a long time ago ~ that we learn what we live: We learn what we live If we live with encouragement, we learn to be confident. If we live with praise, we larn to appreciate. If we live with approval, we learn to like ourselves. If we live with acceptance, we learn to lfind love in the world. If we live with recognition, we learn to have a goal. If we live with sharing, we learn to be generous. If we live with honesty and fairness, we learn what truth and justice are. If we live with security, we learn to have faith in ourselves and those around us. If we live with Friendliness, we learn that the world is a nice place in which to live. Dorthy L. Nolte If we live with respect, being shown to us, we learn to respect for others.

Nobody rational, certainly. But you're setting the bar too high. What about a person who doesn't know for certain whether or not the Church is true, but comes to suspect that it might not be? I suggest that a person who's invested a lifetime of time and resources in the Church might suppress questions or doubts that occurred to him -- not because he was necessarily faithful, but because he would not even want to consider whether he'd spent his life in a mistake. I know people like this. FB: The form of doubt in something can be very subtle. It is rare that a person who begins to question the own faith does so from one large event. And there may be some who doubt the church and but not see anything better. Good grief there is a website called New mormons or something like that. They sit around and belly ache. It is quite sad. Some have left others just want to vent there feelings. I use to try and answer some of their questions, but rarely did they ever answer back. None liked what I had to say. Now proud, I believe that the LDS church is a restoration of the ancient church Christ stared, not because of being a member, but because I asked God for the truth and God revealed to me the truth. I can not deny this. If I did, I would be mocking God. There are leaders of the church who commit themselves to the service of the Lord, to build what they believe is his kingdom on earth. Because you do not have the same experience with the LDS church does not invalidate it. No, of course not. And I have no place to question your experience of a confirmation that the LDS Church is the one true Church. I have to admit I have not myself had such a confirming experience, despite a lifetime of asking, seeking, pondering, studying, obeying, experimenting, etc. I have my own reasons for believing. Just as I can't know what your spiritual experiences are, I can't know for certain what experiences lead others to believe or not -- including the Brethren. It may be that at least some of them have not had unmistakeable spiritual witnesses of the Church's truth -- I know that this is possible, even among faithful Church members, and it's not impossible that such a person, more conscientious and organized than I, might well rise very high in the Church's organization. If that person were convinced, late in life, that the Church were not true, would he be strong enough to act on his conviction? Or would he rationalize it away? Well if this person was dedicated first and foremost to the Lord and carried His Spirit around with him wherever he went, there would never be a time when he came to the conclusion that the church was false. So I see no problem.

I suspect that even a single would have been out of the realm of experience of President Young's wives. I don't. I honestly think that they had it pretty cushy back then if they were married to the prophet ~

Fair question. I think it would be very likely that Church leaders would be willing to make the sacrifices that their callings require if they actually believed the Church were false. On the other hand, how likely is it that a person who's spent his entire life in the service of a cause would be willing to question it? I think those who leave are deceived. As I stated above, if one is not asking the Lord for guidance and humbly so, which most who are researching the supposed wrong doings of historical leaders, are not humbly searching ~and they don't have the Spirit telling them what is true and false about those historical figures and they aren't asking with humble submissive hearts whether what was done back then has any significance for those of today. They are just 'confused', angry, and disgruntled because they rush to the judgment that they have been deceived. Also, why would anyone stay in a position just because they had been there forever, if they knew it was all a fraud. I have read everything written which is anti- and I can tell you that every single time I read a report of 'supposed evil' the Spirit gave me understanding of how that event actually came about and why such and such was done. I can't say I have always been on this road of Spiritual enlightenment. When my family was treated badly, I found lots of things which fed my already angry spirit, and I rebelled. In my rebellion, I searched out all of the Tanner stuff and the other well known's stuff and eagerly ate it up and used it as proof that the church was false and the Brethren were knowingly trying to used me and deceive me. It wasn't until I repented of my own rebellion, and told the Lord I was willing to do whatever he wanted, even if it meant going back among people who had abused me, that I started to again receive the Spirit and find peace ~ and true understanding. I have been on both side of this thing and I can tell you honestly that the more you submit to the church and the leaders in total humility, and over look faults, the more my own sins were forgiven and the greater spiritual understanding and acceptence I received. It is a narrow road. Few there be that find it.

Hey my next door neighbor and her cousin accross the street were grand daughters of BY and their family were proud to be call such and I never heard a peep about any unhappy aunts, and I was companions and VT of both over the years. (infact I live on BY land!)Of course every marriage has days where they would just rather not have the world know the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I have read my angry journals and thought what would happen if anyone got ahold of them and determined whether or not I was happily married by just what they read ~ I don't keep a happy journal because when I am happy, I don't need a place to vent. I just enjoy my happiness. So I don't believe journals and other such resources of historical figures can do real justice or come to any real totaly truth on the matter. It is a dangerous road to take historically incomplete recordings and make a case against someone, or some practice through them and them only. Most people don't go around telling everyone how happy they are, but they spend lots and lots of time telling their closest friend about how they are not happy one day or another. My VT once told me that if it weren't for my telling of my woes, I wouldn't have anything to say ~ I thought about that and decided I wouldn't complain any more because really I was happier than not but my conversations weren't portraying my totally picture. I think it is true with most people today ~ they mostly tell about the bad things that happen to them ~ Haven't heard many women coming to RS telling about multiple orgasms, but they will tell how their baby kept them up all the night before. It is the nature of the beast when in public.

Hey! I like this one much much much better!!!

I just re-read Mr. Tolworthy's reasons for leaving and I wouldn't characterize the catalyst for leaving as 'abuse' - I would say he had a request from his church, the church chose not to respect his request therefore he had no choice but to stick up for himself and end the relationship. Don't know him personally at all but I tend to believe his reasons than hear-say from others. Really? Are your reasons because you don't like what you are reading or because you think they are lying - or maybe something else all together? - please share. M. 1st....I don't care what tolworthy put out for the world to read, it isn't the whole story. Seldom do disaffected saints tell it like it really is. 2nd....I don't care who you chose to believe. I know what I know. 3rd.....I have read all of it before from different sources and one can put the same information in a positive light or they can use it to try and discredit the church. These used it to discredit the church. 4th.....with all your getting ~ get understanding. This seems to always be lacking in the anti-approach to anything. One question, Amillia--Do you think it is possible for a person to leave the church for any reason, OTHER THAN, personal sinfulness? For example--it is possible a person could find that the history of the church as they were taught it at first, turns out not to be the same as the history as discovered by objective historical research? Could a person be totally morally clean, clear headed, kind to dogs and children, and still find the church to be something other than what the missionaries/parents/ ss teachers taught him it was? And that, feeling deceived and misled, he chose to reexamine the church, and found that, had he known BEFORE he was baptized, these things, he would not have joined. And thereby then decides to leave. Is that possible? No. because they would be living close to the Spirit and the Spirit would give them understanding beyond the written word.

What a nasty avatar. I never noticed it before.

Being strongly firm with a child, taking away priviledges and having effective time outs works wonders. I don't think hitting a child, back side or not, is an effective tool. It only teaches violence.

But he did join a church JS wouldn't recognize today. The LDS church today is quite different from what it was in JS's time. M. The Holy Ghost is the same. Christ is the Same. The church organization of 12 apostles and a prophet are the same. Of course if you are saying the church is different from when it only had six members and hadn't grown in knowledge and order line upon line etc. ~ then yes it is much different today because it has continue to be a "living Church of Christ" and therefore continues to grow and develop just like a baby isn't the same as the old man 80 years later ~ but still he is ~ right?

LOL....a big lying apologist for Bush and all republicans. Since you are such an expert on lies and liars, can you point me to the ones Shaun Hennedy said? Please be as specific as possible. Now, as for Sean Hannity, he is an admitted George Bush supporter, but just because someone supports republicans does not in any way make them a liar. And disagreements on your personal perception of a situation does not make something a lie. He spews them endlessly. Good grief, just listen to him, any day of the week.

That the fundamentalist wackos want to steal your social security check. Okay, so you don't know either.