Amillia

The simple fact that the Church got alcohol and tobacco right is good enough for me! And by the way, do you know anyone who has died lately of carefully observing the Mormon word of wisdom---maybe it is all those Mormon high priests! LOL ~ Hey Cal, where have you been? Good to see you back! One more thing ~ if it was so popular ~ why is our church the only one not able to consume or use those products? I know a lot of catholics, methodists, and Luthrens, and they can drink coffee, tea, smoke, drink and all the rest which is prohibited by the WofW ~

Anyway, I can see why my Stake President said they didn't teach this ~ no guilty party would want to hear it.

If she misread it, so did I. I think it's an absolutely WACKY way to look at things! IMO, from an LDS or not, your SP was delusional. From what I've read and understand, Jesus Christ does not work that way. Nice way to put yourself above others though! I can't be held responsible for what you see in my posts. B) In fact ~ maybe you should be held responsible. In the past when I got this reaction telling this story, it was always women who responded this way, and I would always find out in the end, that they had had pre-marital sex, and were personally affected by it. Could that be the problem here?

I think this information should incline people to realize that borrowing from an already popular theme does not make someone a prophet. M. Well if that is all you wanted to say ~ no body is trying to convince you that JS was a prophet. Those who already know it, don't need to be convinced nor unconvinced through the WofW ~ But it is an inspired piece of work. I have had a personal experience with that which tells me it was given by revelation from the Lord ~ a proof of JS being a prophet to me, and I don't need that proof.

Hey today is the 6th of April, are we dead yet?

(Kimball consulting with his good buddy and convicted murderer Mark Hoffman) In 1960, future Prophet Spencer W. Kimball gave a speech at the LDS General Conference. Here's an excerpt... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today...they are fast becoming a white and delightsome people....For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised....The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation." "At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl -- sixteen -- sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents -- on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather....These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness. One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated." Source: Improvement Era, Dec. 1960, 922-923. Is this a agressive thing with you J.?

What a crazy attitude. I imagine you were fairly young when you asked this question, so I hope you have moved past the attitude that somehow "sinning" is fun and some kind of a reward. The fact that you could get up every morning, look in the mirror and feel good about yourself and the choices you made are a reward for you. Our motivation should be to obey the Lord because we LOVE and trust him, not because some great reward awaits us. I doubt your friend felt very good about herself through those times. I would think you would be happy to know that repentence is available to everyone who sins (which is all of us), and that, yes, we eventually can all have the same reward. I think your Stake President was dead wrong in this. Doesn't he know the parable of the field laborers? As far as the 'Inheritance" being spent, the prodigal son would not have received the same reward as the older brother no matter what he did. The oldest son received the Lion's share of the Father's wealth ALWAYS, unless he did something to disinherit himself. So this parable can't be talking about losing eternal inheritance because the best inheritance wasn't available to him at the start. No matter what he did, he wouldn't have received as much as his brother. The lesson is about rejoicing at the return of the lost soul. You totally misread it and put your own interpretation of my attitudes there ~ to each their own!

Well well, I guess we must dicount everything every prophet ever said, cause it related to the issues of the day. LOL

Oh my, Mr Sulu. A lot of issues ~ someone needs time out~

The Other Sock =============== There has been a lot of discussion in many of the scientific journals recently concerning alternate universes. Is this the only reality? There is no hard scientific proof one way or the other, but I have a theory. My pens and the other sock seem to go somewhere. I can't seem to find a pen even though I buy them by the dozen. It would seem by common logic that if I keep buying pens, then pens should start piling up to where there should be a pen within easy reach whenever I wanted one. But no, when I look for a pen, I can't find one anywhere. It's the same with the other sock. Perhaps this is the greatest evidence so far for an alternate universe and somehow the other sock and my pens ...are going over there.

Well if you have had both the demonic possesion experience and the angelic and Christ visitations, you will know the difference. Joseph had both. He knew the difference.I have had both. When I was a teen, 13 to be exact, I found a bunch of playboys in my older bothers room and stole one. I read some articles and looked at the pictures until I became very sexually aroused. (sp) I came to a point where I wanted to take off all my clothes and walk out into the summer night. I was so filled with this 'feeling' that I did just that. I even put the back porch light on. LOL Well I got all the way into the back yard before this 'feeling' totally left me. In all of this long walk to my back yard, I never felt naked. It was weird. But I got to the peach tree and I thought of what I was actually doing, and I was abandoned by the 'feeling'. It took forever to get back into the house ~ and lucky me, there was a neighbor boy watching. Total bummer that~ I have had other experiences of demonic possession, Once with a weegee (sp) board, another with unreasonable anger, and jealousy. I know the feeling when it is coming over me these days and can refute them. But I have also had visitations of angels and dead family members. I have had conversations with the Spirit of Christ and the Holy Ghost (and they are different experiences in identity awareness) So I really can't believe that anyone who has had both could believe JS was totally led by demons. I know the difference, so does anyone who has experienced it. One experience I had with a spiritual visitation, was so powerful I felt it for months. Not so with the demonic possession. I felt it leave me totally alone with my guilt. I never gained a lasting courage from the demons. Joseph Smith showed constant courage and in the face of all the opposition he faced, that is saying something.

Dear Randy, We don't disagree on this point. It was a matter of samantics. I used the term review, as a going through all that we did and being judged, I just didn't use the word judged. Sorry. This section also advocates plural marriage. In the time we are 'quickened' by which ever glory we obtain at that time (Section 88) we receive that amount of glory ~ then it goes on to tell us that is according to our righteousness and that virtue cleaveth to virtue etc. I think if you ponder section 88 you will see there is more than first meets the eye. I think it isn't a question of receiving the results of our choices ~ but rather how it will all play out. It is a consequence to be assigned to a lower kingdom and have to work harder to move forward there, than it would have been here. This is the time to prepare to meet God. As you referenced ~ we will stand before the Lord and be judged. We are to use this life to prepare for that day. So I totally agree with this. On the other hand, I don't see it as a second chance, to be allowed to progress in the kingdom we are assigned, and then to pass to the lowest level of the next kingdom and work our way up that one ~etc.. The brethren have taught that we can progress within the kingdom we are assigned ~ wouldn't that be in the same catagory as a second chance as you have discribed above? If not, neither will moving up to another kingdom. It is progressing upward in both situations. We have blown our chance to reach the top by doing it right in this life. We will be assigned to a lower kingdom. There is no changing that. There is no second chance to come to this earth and do it over and reach the top the relatively easier way. We have spent our inheritence (as in the prodical son) though we will be able to be accepted back into the family ~ we will not be getting that inheritence again. That inheritence was the 'advantage'. We will not have the advantage we could have gained in this life, again. But it doesn't say anywhere that we won't be accepted back into the family of the Lord, in fact the parable of the prodical teaches us that we will. And interestingly enough, the elder brother/righteous brother ~ is upset by that ~ and has to be reminded that he is the one who will inherit all that his Father hast. ~ Yet the prodical was given the ring, robe, and fatted calf ~ as a recognition of his being accepted, though late in coming. All he lost was the advantage, the inheritence. ~ I don't believe that this prodical will become a God in the highest kingdom of the Celestial kingdom, but he will be able to be a servant. Read the New Testiment comentary on this parable. A couple of the prophets have given this interpretation. Mercy cannot rob Justice, and justice is not being robbed if we suffer the buffettings of Satan, and suffer our own punishments for sins. I don't remember saying they would be Exalted. I just stated they would be able to progress from one kingdom to the next ~ even to the highest kingdom Celestial kingdom. However, they would only be servants there. This is true. What exactly are we speaking about when we are saying Exaltation and the priviledge of Eternal Progression? Are we just speaking of those who reached the top of the top and become Gods and Godesses? If so, those who are going to be sealed to this kingdom and calling will have to suffer for some sins they didn't repent of here by suffering the buffets of Satan. But they will still be able to come to it. Joseph Smith believed that no matter what Emma did, he would and could reach down to the depths of hell and bring her up to the highest kingdom to be with him. Interestingly enough, I am not saying they have the wrong understanding, I am just saying they don't have the whole understanding, or if they do, they don't teach it. There is a great difference. I asked my Stake President this once: "My girl friend had a child out of wedlock ~ but later was married in the temple. I stayed pure and virtuous and married in the temple. Should this girl receive the exact level as I do after this life? She thinks she will." He said: "No she shouldn't and won't. But we don't teach that because they would be discouraged and not try so hard to be good." This was interesting to me. It told me that we aren't always being taught all there is to understand because we are only being given what the general members can understand and receive. I think it interesting, that I thought that if she did get to have the same level as I did, that I had no real motivation to stay pure ~ I could just always repent later and move right back to the top. Of course, as I see it now, she will get to the top, but not as quickly as I do. She won't have the advantage though she repented, she spent her inheritence and won't get another. Anyway, I have totally enjoyed your end of this discussion. Thanks~ BTW I can't wait to hear what your leaders tell you.

I was speaking about the leaders of today. And Smith's alleged adultery was justified by doctrine, hence the doctrine to be condemned, not the person. We see many who turn aside today, true. But we're talking about Mormonism, not Christ's church. Again I don't agree. The doctrine isn't why JS was murdered. It was gossip and jealousy and hurt feelings which brought JS to become the target.

Amillia, I don't think that anyone in their right mind would condemn Mormonism for sins of leaders or laypersons. It's the doctrine that's condemned. Not really. All I have been bombarded with for the last 5 years in computer land ~ is the history of the church leaders ~ JS supposedly creating the BofM and sleeping with other men's wives Etc. So ~ your comment just doesn't wash with me. Also, there are doctrines of every church, even Christ's church that caused men to leave ~ John 6: 66 66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

I wonder why you are wasting so much of your time and energy trying to find faults here. Terri is gone and thankfully, for her sake..... The wrong thing was done to Terri, and much fault remains to be told. We can no longer save her that is true. What we can do is punish those who corrupt the system. We can shake the sewer pipes where they reside, so that the rats are required to run. Terri didn't want to die and she proved that by hanging on for 13 days. It was only after her parents got their plea to be able to reinsert Terri's feeding tube turned down for the last time that she passed on. I am also happy that she is out of her 15 year misery, being under the total control of that monster Michael. I don't think that I personally could survive for 13 days without water. I know for certain that I would never want that done to me or anyone in my family either. Starvation is inhumane and cruel. Terri is gone, but the fight for change carries on. We all make bad decisions and suffer many times other's suffer the consequences ~ becareful how diligently you seek justice against others ~ you may just get it back in your own life 10 fold ~ Thanks for the warning dear but it isn't I who will seek the justice here, hopefully it will be the justice system. It is you who is putting up links to try and get a judge removed ~ is it not? Or did I just read something into your post with that link? As IF I have that power all by myself. Haven't you ever heard the stories that go along with the idea of "THE POWER OF ONE?

Are you here in Utah? Cause I think we have all of the above and more trying to cancel everything to do with Christian Holidays.

I thought the addled-lefty phrase was "oil-sucking blood monger," but maybe my hearing was distorted by the blended odors of patchouli, pot, and unshaven hippie-chick underarms. (I figure if that strong perfume can distort people's thinking to the point where they think giant puppets are an effective vehicle for political discourse, they might affect hearing, too.) Seriously, though, I agree with your basic point: So what if the Renaissance popes were a bunch of rogues? (I'm actually a bit in awe of their capacity for sensual excess; some of them were legendary for parties whose descriptions make USC's frat row look like Helaman Halls on a Friday night in early May.) As far as I know, all the men (and one woman) who became Popes were legitimately ordained bishops and assigned the Roman bishopric by the people who had the authority to do so. Here's an interesting thought: If we take the position that a few indisputably wicked Popes don't suffice to break the Catholic Church's apostolic authority -- i.e., if we conclude that what matters is the present state of the institution, not the sometimes-messy process by which it got there, why couldn't an institution whose actual founders were flawed be validated by the good-faith belief and correct teaching of their successors? Imagine a church that, in its present incarnation, taught the essential core truths of the Christian gospel, that its present leadership firmly believed in those truths, and that it provided an effective vehicle for Christian life and for spreading the gospel. Imagine that it came to light that some of what its founders taught was not true, or that the founders were deeply flawed personally. My question is this: if the Catholic chain of authority were not broken by Renaissance-era rottenness, about halfway between the institution's founding, and the present day, would our hypothetical church, on the other hand, be compromised by a "rotten" link in the chain a little closer to the beginning of it? Wow ~It does make one wonder how any Catholic can condemn our church for its history! Speaking of historical weaknesses ~ I remember that not long ago (maybe a couple of decades ago) the Catholic church had that exposure of baby skeletons found in the catacombs~ babies of nuns and priests who were supposed to be celebate. I guess we really can't judge a church by the weaknesses of it's leaders can we?

I wonder why you are wasting so much of your time and energy trying to find faults here. Terri is gone and thankfully, for her sake..... The wrong thing was done to Terri, and much fault remains to be told. We can no longer save her that is true. What we can do is punish those who corrupt the system. We can shake the sewer pipes where they reside, so that the rats are required to run. Terri didn't want to die and she proved that by hanging on for 13 days. It was only after her parents got their plea to be able to reinsert Terri's feeding tube turned down for the last time that she passed on. I am also happy that she is out of her 15 year misery, being under the total control of that monster Michael. I don't think that I personally could survive for 13 days without water. I know for certain that I would never want that done to me or anyone in my family either. Starvation is inhumane and cruel. Terri is gone, but the fight for change carries on. We all make bad decisions and suffer many times other's suffer the consequences ~ becareful how diligently you seek justice against others ~ you may just get it back in your own life 10 fold ~ Thanks for the warning dear but it isn't I who will seek the justice here, hopefully it will be the justice system. It is you who is putting up links to try and get a judge removed ~ is it not? Or did I just read something into your post with that link?

Yeah, God is awesome! And we are to search, ponder and pray ~ I love these two scriptures: 1 Ne. 10: 19 19 For he that diligently seeketh shall find; and the mysteries of God shall be unfolded unto them, by the power of the Holy Ghost, as well in these times as in times of old, and as well in times of old as in times to come; wherefore, the course of the Lord is one eternal round. Jacob 4: 8 8 Behold, great and marvelous are the works of the Lord. How unsearchable are the depths of the mysteries of him; and it is impossible that man should find out all his ways. And no man knoweth of his ways save it be revealed unto him; wherefore, brethren, despise not the revelations of God.

I wonder why you are wasting so much of your time and energy trying to find faults here. Terri is gone and thankfully, for her sake..... The wrong thing was done to Terri, and much fault remains to be told. We can no longer save her that is true. What we can do is punish those who corrupt the system. We can shake the sewer pipes where they reside, so that the rats are required to run. Terri didn't want to die and she proved that by hanging on for 13 days. It was only after her parents got their plea to be able to reinsert Terri's feeding tube turned down for the last time that she passed on. I am also happy that she is out of her 15 year misery, being under the total control of that monster Michael. I don't think that I personally could survive for 13 days without water. I know for certain that I would never want that done to me or anyone in my family either. Starvation is inhumane and cruel. Terri is gone, but the fight for change carries on. We all make bad decisions and suffer many times other's suffer the consequences ~ becareful how diligently you seek justice against others ~ you may just get it back in your own life 10 fold ~

I loved conference. I wished there were more.Final judgment is a time when everyone will stand before Christ to have their life on this earth reviewed. I'm sure there was one before we came here, reviewing what we had done in the pre-existence. My husband's patriarchial blessings states that he was given a good home and parents who were members of the church, IOW born in the covenant, because of his valiancy in the pre-existence. That meant there was a final judgment before we were given our earthly asignments. There are many endings and new beginnings. There always will be. One eternal round necessitates progression. We can't let end of the world, final judgments and other such phrases' meanings be held back by men's conceptual and limited understandings. We must not lean to our own understandings or we will be as the pharasees who thought Christ was speaking of the actual temple building, rather than His own body when He stated that if they destroyed it, He would build it back up in three days. The Jews didn't recognize Jesus as the Messiah because they were looking for 'literal' worldly leadership. They didn't put the prophecies into their proper perspectives, and were caught up in their own worldly needs. We also need to be careful not to try and limit the work of the Lord in behave of ALL of us, because we are ALL eternally connected. We know it is important to do our geneology and temple work for this reason. Many of the terms used in scripture and doctrine are not so singly dimentional was we think. There is much the people didn't understand in Christ's work and day. There was much the people didn't understand in Joseph Smith's work ~ They search, and they find understandings at one level which seem to be totally contradicted at another. But in truth nothing really is contradictory. Our understanding just lacks the eternal and long term perspective. We are very finite people in a finite world. But God isn't. His work is endless, because He is the beginning and the end, we aren't. Joseph Smith once stated that if he told the saints all that he was given and knew, they would ride him out of town on a rail and label him a heritic. This is true. It is why we are to not share too much of what we have been given spiritually, because it is only given to those who are ready to receive it.

He does experience all time simultaneously. And it is for this reason that one cannot read and understand the scriptures correctly unless they take time out of them.Try reading the scriptures without past/present/future verbs. IOW IS, ARE, WAS, BEING, BEEN must all be interchangable ~ there is no past, present or future, ~ no time~ as we know it. When discussing God's way of seeing things and how it is masked in a mystery, you have to be very clever, or receive revelation. So I say again ~ the actual meaning of day isn't as one might expect ~ Mark 4: 11 11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the amystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in bparables•: Rom. 11: 25 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own aconceits•; that bblindness• in part is happened to Israel, until the cfulness of the dGentiles be come in. Rom. 16: 25 25 Now to him that is of power to astablish• you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the bmystery•, which was kept secret since the world began, 1 Cor. 2: 7 7 But we speak the awisdom of God in a bmystery, even the hidden cwisdom•, which God dordained• before the world unto our glory: 1 Cor. 15: 51 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all asleep•, but we shall all be bchanged•, Eph. 1: 9 9 Having made known unto us the amystery• of his bwill, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: Eph. 3: 3 3 How that by revelation he made aknown• unto me the mystery; (as I bwrote afore in few words, Eph. 3: 4 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the amystery• of Christ) Eph. 3: 9 9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the amystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who bcreated all things by cJesus Christ: Eph. 5: 32 32 This is a great amystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Eph. 6: 19 19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the amystery of the gospel, Col. 1: 26 26 Even the amystery• which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made bmanifest• to his saints: Col. 1: 27 27 To whom God would make aknown• what is the briches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Col. 2: 2 2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of aunderstanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, band• of the Father, and of Christ; Col. 4: 3 3 Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a adoor• of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds:

Interesting. I like this last pope. His is a hard act to follow ~ I don't envy the next one.

I wonder why you are wasting so much of your time and energy trying to find faults here. Terri is gone and thankfully, for her sake.....

To start look who is putting this out. I always consider the source before I take anything they say seriously. This one I won't take seriously...