Amillia

The same could be said from those people (like me) that find it difficult to understand why there are those who believe in the JS story (as how the LDS church tells it). M. ROFL! You don't miss an opportunity to slam the church and it's members do you. You must be one little bitter woman!!

So far, I've agreed with everything you've said about this top, except I think you might have failed to mention alchemy and colloidial silver. But....I have to warn you right now not to get me started on homeopathy, the ultimate fraud. I am continually amazed (amused) at the caliber of people I actually interact with IRL who actually buy this, um, snake oil. And, after you don't get me started on homeopathy in general, please don't get me started on nosodes and the anti-vaccination movement. PS- I think Pushka is being very gracious and I'd personally rather this not regress into some kind of "bash Pushka" thing, even if you are da boss. You know, the herbs saved my life, where the medications the doctors gave me, nearly killed me, and would have killed me (cause they couldn't even diagnois what they had caused me to have) if it weren't for the homeopathic knowsomethings who gave me the correct diagnoisis and treatment!!!! I'd be dead! Doctors and medicines kill ten thousand people a day. You can't say that herbs or homeopathic people do that much damage. The courts are full of malpractive against doctors, so much so that they are going out of business or seeking to outlaw law suits, replacing them with arbitration. So yak on .... I'm not listening.

I have found that the most severe penalties to come from talking negatively about the Prophet Joseph Smith jr....were natural consequences, if you consider the withdrawl of the Spirit of Christ/Holy Ghost and the loss of power in the priesthood ~ severe natural consequences. NOT TO MENTION the accompanying spiritual blindness ~ The natural consequence of such a thing as talking negatively about any prophet is the flipping of the track switch putting yourself off the straight and narrow way, onto a diverse path that leads down and out. You act like the severe consequence starts with the disaplinary actions of the earthly guardians. They are the LAST of the severe consequences, persipitated by the spiritual darkness the perp has consequently fallen into through this act. The Lord and His servants only can warn us of the doors to hell, they aren't dragging us kicking and screaming into them. There are always natural/spiritual consequences to the breaking of any and all commandments, and Satan is just waiting for us to even look upon a woman to lust after her/ talk negatively about the Lord's servants... so that HE, SATAN, can take over when we lose the Spiritual protection of the Holy Ghost/Spirit of Christ.

The first part or the second part. If the second part, would you like me to prove you wrong? You are saying that Catholics are open to listening to the Spirit? or JS smith?

There's no evidence that once one encounters a true spirit, that they can always discern a false one. Perhaps that's true of Protestants and neo-protestants, but I can say without a doubt that this is not the case with either Roman Catholics or Orthodox. I don't believe that.

Yell as you wish Jenda, but you did give information out here, and didn't make it known that you wanted it to be kept private ~ which is a joke if you think about it ~ I mean you did put it on a PUBLIC forum!!! I even read it.And I wouldn't want to associate with scum that cut people off just for stupid things and didn't have an ounce of understanding or forgiveness in their hearts. Are they all exalted already or something? If so, why don't they show an increase of love, after reproving with sharpness?... as the scriptures teach? You all have shown a very low character in this experience ~

I have never heard of someone in the church not being allowed to ask questions. In fact in our ward conference, our stake president opened our meeting with a time for questions. How is it considered a sin and by who? Or is this just more made up stuff from a guy who doesn't really know what he is talking about when it comes to the church?

Good stuff PD and Dale!

True, but wouldn't you say that singling out one particular group for special criticism is harsher than making a general criticism of a larger group. It's one thing to make a generalized statement about the universal human tendency towards laziness, but single out, say, Mexicans for that criticism and the fertilizer would rightly hit the propeller. Exactly! :)

Why do mormon missionaries knock on the same doors year after year? There are a few here who's beliefs in Mormonism are lessening. Im here to help them (if they want it) find something better for their lives. In the case of Taoist Saint, we can share those teachings from the East that we find mutually inspiring. In the case of sgallan, offering words of encouragement not to dispair at losing his spiritual foundation. In the case of others Im not going to mention, giving them something less tedius to think about than the semi-annual general conference sessions. In your case, just getting under your skin when your have run out of things to contribute. ----------------- Mormons are best described as freethinkers.........................on a short leash. Wow....how magnanimous of you. And for those spiritually enlightened few, conference was a spiritual feast ~ not tedious! The blind will never see, and the deaf will never hear ~ when God speaks through His prophets and apostles.

I would think Setheus it is obvious - because he wants to come here, like most of us posters. From what I perceive - Jason seems quite happy. Are you happy Setheus? If Jason's posts are bugging you why don't you just not read them? Wait, I know why - because you can't help it - you want to read them. M. You sure twisted that good. LOL You are making the point against Setheus on a board he is in accord with. You and Ex are against what we believe here and quite often attack us on our own turf. Setheus' point was....if you don't like our beliefs, go where you are comfortable. The fact that you are comfortable being on a board strickly to be a nemesis ~ attests to poor character on your part not Setheus'. Keep that cork screw action on the screwy anti board will ya?

Hey, if you are anywhere near this forum, H A P P Y B I R T <span style=\'color:blue\'>H </span> D A Y ! ! ! !

Are we so sure about this? The Jews do not believe (or teach) that God is an exalted being from Kolab which is basic LDS belief. It is appropriate then to say that both Jew and LDS believe there is a God, but when we look at foundational beliefs, Jews and LDS can argue that they do not believe in the "same" God. This may appear nitpicky, but to the Jews this would be a major train wreck in finding commonality of belief in the "same" God when they do not view God as an exalted being. B) In Christ I Serve, Thunderfire I think he is referring to the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob/ the creator. Believing different things about that God doesn't make it necessary to believe they are two different Gods.

Huh? What are you saying here? And are you ever going to respond to the issues I bring up, or just skirt around them accusing disbelievers of sin? What issues? Your opinions? Everyone has opinions....like rear ends you know?

So why doesn't your church "get a life" and send home the 50,000 missionaries who daily intrude on the beliefs and practices of others? Those missionaries chose to go out and teach the word. The people who listen, listen voluntarily. You are here on a pro-mormon board voluntarily. You silly silly silly boy.

Don't you ever get tired of putting your own little "spin" on other's comments? Haven't you got one original thought in that mind of yours? Thus far the only "sin" you've convicted me of was being a free thinker. According to you.

It's all about perspective. You see those who fight against the Mormon church as negative, sinful people. I see them generally as people who are concerned that this little heresy might spread as part of the predicted apostasy prior to the 2nd coming. If you don't want to be part of the church ~ fine ~ but it seems to be that there is something wrong with you (not the church ) when you can't leave it alone and get a life, allowing others the same privilege.That fact that you continue to sling mud, as your prime religious activity, seems to show that you totally lack what the Lord allowed. That being ... all men to worship how , where, or what they may. Mark 9 teaches that!

That can be true put this way as well: ...a long habit of thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being wrong....(common sense)I would add to that: ... especially when it accomadates the sinner.

If we are to listen only to select opinions, we would have to believe there isn't a decent person on the planet. I just don't think your opinion and that of anti mormons are worth the powder to blow them to H.... So go peddle it somewhere else...

As a man thinketh ~ Anti's think so much negative and do so much in the negative realm, that what thinking they do is conterproductive. It is better to think a little good, than a whole lot of bad.

From your description of events, I'd say you still don't know the difference. Joseph smith didn't either. And I too had words come to my mind that I didn't know before I spoke them. However, the devil is cunning, and can and will do whatever it takes to keep is in a delusion. Like you are one everyone should listen to as an authority on JS! LOL

Don't feel bad Jenda. We all have to stand back one place or another.My answer to the truthfulness of the BofM ~ first time was on my mission. I had to read it in the language of my mission and as I struggled for the first couple of weeks, I was given the language to teach. I was speaking the language so well so quickly, and having passages found in the BofM come to my mind in times of need, that I knew it was a gift. I have to just give you all a question: If you are given special gifts to teach about the Book of Mormon, wouldn't you consider it true? Why would the Lord give special gifts like this, to teach false works? This was not my only time of receiving a powerful spiritual confirmation of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. I get a special witness every time I read in it. And for those who would suggest it was Satan ~ LOL I know the difference between Satan and the Lord.

Ummm... what about when people discover things about 'the church' and realize that there's no way it can be true? Maybe the missionaries should tell possible converts a bit more about the history. I guess that's my fault b/c I wasn't enough of a skeptic at the time to research it. The church's true power isn't granted through it's history. Too many get lost by looking beyond the mark. Too bad... The Weakest... =============== No brain is stronger than its weakest think. ~Thomas L. Masson~ It is all this 'weakest think' among the anti's that have lost them the kingdom. They spend all their time and energy in this 'weakest think' mode(meaning, looking beyond the mark for the faults of men) instead of looking for all the great things that the church membership can bring to them. There are gifts that are so great, one can easily over look the faults of men in the church's history. But what do they look for? 'The Weakest Think'!

Why do you presume that someone who leaves just hasn't asked that question? There are people in the Church who have asked, and haven't gotten an answer. Good point, PD... And haven't you heard the latest news? It is no longer required to pray about the Book of Mormon for a Testimony. Testing "Moroni's promise" seems to now be optional. The following is copied and abridged from Boyd Packer's recent talk from General Conference: <span style='color:green'> "When I first read the Book of Mormon from cover to cover, I read the promise that if I "would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if [the things I had read were] true; and if [i would] ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he [would] manifest the truth of it unto [me], by the power of the Holy Ghost" (Moroni 10:4). I tried to follow those instructions, as I understood them. If I expected a glorious manifestation to come at once as an overpowering experience, it did not happen. Nevertheless, it felt good, and I began to believe. The next verse has an even greater promise: "By the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things" (Moroni 10:5; emphasis added). I did not know how the Holy Ghost worked, even though the Book of Mormon explains it a number of times in a number of ways... ...If I had expected in my little-boy innocence some special spiritual experience, it had not happened. Over the years as I listened to sermons and lessons and read in the Book of Mormon, I began to understand... ...Do not be disappointed if you have read and reread and yet have not received a powerful witness. You may be somewhat like the disciples spoken of in the Book of Mormon who were filled with the power of God in great glory "and they knew it not" (3 Nephi 9:20). Do the best you can. Think of this verse: "See that all these things are done in wisdom and order; for it is not requisite that a man should run faster than he has strength. And again, it is expedient that he should be diligent, that thereby he might win the prize; therefore, all things must be done in order" (Mosiah 4:27)." So Elder Packer asked God, with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ with the result that he did not get an answer. In fact he states that the only result was that "he felt good". That was his testimony. The Church seems to be redefining a "testimony" (as described by Moroni) so that more people can have them. Presiden Hinckley said something similar once...I don't remember the exact words, but the message was "if you're doing what's right, it demonstrates that you do have a testimony". So you do not need to worry about getting an answer when you pray about the BoM. A testimony is now becoming something you "do" rather than something you have. If you're obedient, that's a testimony. I guess the Church is recognizing that a lot of people are really bothered by their failure to get an answer...a powerful feeling or "manifestation" that can be distinguished from common emotion. Rather than risk losing converts, they redefine testimony so that it doesn't matter whether you have a manifestation at all. Interesting thoughts and quotes from conference Taoist. I think everyone is different. Some just don't know what they have until they lose it, and then they won't admit it.

Umm...some people actually do not leave the church because they are guilty of sins. Some leave because they discovered things they do not like about Church history or doctrine. For lack of a better phrase, they "studied their way out" of the Church. Actually, I know more people who have sinned and STAYED in the Church. Why is that? Here is a thought: If a sinner leaves the Church, they are also probably also an unbeliever, at least in the Atonement...otherwise they would stay so they can be forgiven by Christ! So both the sinners and non-sinners will leave the church because of a lack of belief...which is a perfectly rational thing to do. You may know more in church than out ~ but that is because of where you are in life/job/church ~ I know more out than in who are sinners.