Amillia

Thank you, begood2. Tragedy is something that we all can learn from if we choose to do so. When a person has lost part of his ability to make clear and correct choices either from an addiction, or an injury, it is difficult for us to judge them. My son Nick has a brain injury and he says things to me that we never would have said before his accident. He has frontal lobe damage so he has no inhibitions. With me being his primary care giver I see it all. He tells me everything and he says what ever he wants to me. For someone on the outside looking in, he would appear cruel, crass, and in need of a tongue lashing. It isn't easy being on the receiving end when Nick becomes irritated, but I am sure it isn't easy being him at those times either. I have not seen anyone who knows need judge him for his actions. For those who know Nick they are learning so much about compassion and understanding. I have learned a lot from the life of our friend. I have learned that when you first start to feel like you are in a hole, to find that shovel and begin to dig THEN. Digging out when you can still see the light is much easier then digging out in the dark. If you do end up needing to dig in the dark it would be much easier with the encouragement of a mentor but there might not always have that support from family or a friend, so you should not count on it. Our friend apparently did not call on the one and only mentor who could find him in the dark and I am not sure why. We had lost contact with him with a job change and a move. In my own life, I have needed to be reminded to get back on course...to go back to the basics of what I know to be true. I also have learned, or been reminded of something from Snow. Many times when we get off course it is because of our own selfishness. If we should get off a course in drown in both pride and selfishness, it takes a lot of humility to get back to where we can find peace. I believe that it can be a never ending battle for a "fence sitter" to keep finding their way from pride to peace. I want to make sure that I can always remain on the peace side of the fence. Another good post Strawberry!

Very good post begood2!

Reading all of your comments on this thread, really shows just how bitter and blind you really are. And of course you are not alone, you have your little protégé, Tao echoing and chanting along with you. Weak minds flow together...

Why not? And why are you on an LDS site challenging LDS visitors? You should be banned!

LOL, you are so right on everything! These anti's remind me of a scripture found in John 8. They are just like those who apposed Christ.

That is where we had the most fun with our friends. We did all sorts of volunteer stuff.

I just wanted some feedback on my ideas. You seem more concerned with telling me that I live in illusionary space. Well I believe we ALL life in illusionary space. You just fail to see it...LDS or not... You are the one who said you believed we were all living in an illusionary space ~ I wasn't more concerned with telling you something that you told me first. That just doesn't make sense. Especially since you reinterated it again just now.

If the world does not exist, then the Buddhists are right and the Christians are wrong, and everything we experience is an illusion. Why would we worry about silly laws if life is an illusion? And since this is off-topic, here are some questions for you: 1. Why is marriage considered a legal issue? Shouldn't it be strictly a Church issue? 2. What do you think of my proposed system for religion in our schools? 3. What do you think of my ideas for displaying scriptures in courthouses from all the world's major religions? Even if it is all an illusion, to make any value of that illusion, there must be order and knowledge. When one comes to the full knowledge, they are either Mormon, or just in an illusionary space.

I don't know the answer to those questions, but they are irrelevant to the law, unless our government changes its laws and runs the nation with the laws of the Old Testament. (in which case, you will know what it is like to live under the Taliban, because those Old Testament laws are almost, if not as bad, as Islamic laws) Anyway...re-read my post. All I am saying is that legally, MARRIAGE WOULD NOT EXIST. It would be a religious ritual, like baptism. Homosexuals would legally be allowed to share their financial destiny, but NEVER ALLOWED TO MARRY (unless they belonged to a church than considered that ok). Heterosexuals would legally be allowed to share their financial destiny, but NEVER ALLOWED TO MARRY. See my point? Marriage will have NOTHING to do with law. Since YOU believe in the LDS Church as the only valid church, it is literally impossible for homosexuals to marry, because there is no way they can enter the Temple! So what can you possibly be worried about? If homosexuality is a sin, it will still continue to exist. Just like people will continue to lie, disobey their parents, use the lord's name in vain, worship false gods, etc. Its all legal, so let the Church deal with them! Well if there were no world, it would seem a little more relevant.

Who created the world? Who instigated man and woman coupling up? Why does the moon do what it does?

Well that one doesn't always work! Look at Stephen in the NT.

LOL ~ it would be kind of interesting to see all of those contradictory mandates lined up all in the same view space!

He died alone and very sad I would guess. We really don't know foe sure but we suspect an overdose. I feel bad because of all of the joy he missed out on with having a family that he lost because of his problems. I feel bad for his children who will never know the man I knew. Lindy, my kids say "HI" How sad. It is kind of frightening to think that just one experience in life can totally change things for the rest of our lives.

I didn't see anywhere, how he died. How did he die?

"It is a mass of confusion" is a phrase that comes to mind. I see no value in speculation, and no value in slander. I guess that is why I no longer delve into these things.Also, having receved my own witness of JS's righteousnesss, from a much higher source than anything in writing left behind by the saints back then, I really have no need to read accounts from mere mortals.

Good point Snow!

It isn't very clear what ROLE religion was intended to play...or HOW MUCH influence it would have. That might be a valid question, but I don't see what it has to do with religion? In a Theocracy, we could also have appointed Judges, right? The only difference would be that Christians would consider them appointed by the authority of God. Abortion and prayer being taken out of the schools were both initiated by judges.

I've never interpreted that scripture as Jesus' endorsement of religious war. It sounds much more to me that he's talking about the war or conflict in families that is destined to occur when a person decides to follow Christ above the objections of the family. I heard a discussion once by some institute guys who stated that if you study history, that Christ is always at the center of conflict, starting with the pre-existent war.

You're welcome to post it over there.

There are stories and then there are stories ~ but they are incomplete and there is no way to question the writer of those stories to get all the specifics.If you have ever been in court, you will see that a statement by a witness can be totally discounted (even though on paper it sounded totally perfect) because the story didn't contain all of the facts. It contained only what the witness wanted the people to hear. There are not only two sides to every story (which isn't heard in any of the stories by themselves) but there is also the facts which maybe only one person is in possession of, besides God. Joseph Smith would be that person, in his case. The record documents and stories you have are one dimensional. Like reading the Bible. If you have ever heard a story or teaching or even prophecy from the Bible without the background information, the story will be related to what you know, and your surrounding circumstances. But when you start an indepth study of the times, customs, religions, oppositional religions teachings, etc, and then add to that the meaning of words, and uses ~ you can come away with an entirely different understanding of what was going on in that same story. What was going on back then? What was God actually telling JS which never was written, only talked about, or gossipped through the grapevine until it wasn't anything near the truth anymore? What was the intent of the writers of thos stories? Were they just disgruntled people? Did they expect something more, and when they didn't get it, made something up to hurt JS like they felt they were hurt? There is so much you and I can't know by just reading those stories and documents... that it is foolishness to think one knows JS's story without having lived it themselves. That goes for the people who wrote those documents, or interpretted them. Can they, without actually walking in the shoes of those people, feeling their feelings, knowing their thoughts, and personalities and weaknesses, really know anything about what is the WHOLE TRUTH? I don't think so. I have seen our own country's story has changed according to political desires and I don't think that anyone who is seeking TRUTH will settle for any amount of paperwork to tell the WHOLE TRUTH when it comes to the matter and works of JS. It must be sought through revelation from God.

It wouldn't be the same thing! It's not for financial gain ~ it is for social contacts and fellowship!! Post it anyway ! LOL Or print up some fliers and give them to every youth you see at church and on the street.

I have seen most all the discussions and quotes which state JS was not only a polygamist secretly, but that he was an adulterer. They don't impress me because they are statements of men.So many times we write things, or say things in pure bias, leaning to our own feelings and understandings. Sometimes we say things out of personal rejection or hurt that we brought upon ourselves. Many back then had 'expectations' that were not met. Christ had the same problem with the Jews. They expected one kind of Christ as they interpreted the prophecies, and Christ was something totally different than what they wanted. Therefore they found cause against Him everyway they could. It was not different with JS. He was totally miss understood, and his intentions were found demonic. When if one really understood the spirit of the man, they would have found that he was very humble, and submissive to the Father. He was asked to do more, in his short lifetime, than any one of his accusers would ever understand. They put his actions in the context of their own minds and hearts (which were not pure) and found him wanting. I think this scripture in D&C 121:16 explains much: D&C 121: 16-17 16 Cursed are all those that shall lift up the heel against mine anointed, saith the Lord, and cry they have sinned when they have not sinned before me, saith the Lord, but have done that which was meet in mine eyes, and which I commanded them. 17 But those who cry transgression do it because they are the servants of sin, and are the children of disobedience themselves. The Spirit can show us our sins, even the ones we have deeply hidden. If we knew our own hearts and minds, and could submit ourselves to the examination of The Spirit of Christ... we would find we are not worthy to judge anyone's hearts, minds or intentions. We see things through colored glasses without the Spirit to clearify ~ and that is the way we tell our own stories and the stories of others. Nothing can document the sins of others, not even personal experiences ~ because they will all be tainted with our own sinful discolorations and thus biased. Holy God knows the truth about us, or anyone else. If we ask, we can know the truth of all things, but we must be willing to accept that truth....and that is where many fail to receive ~ For what is a gift, if it is not accepted?

I think God may not say those things mentioned at the end, nor do I think He is pleased by the fighting tween the sects, but I do believe 'choice' was the main idea with experience being the prize at the end, causing the heart and mind to work and search. I don't think God is a passive God, nor does He endorse passiveness, as it is stated that being neither hot nor cold, but luke warm is spewwed out. Christ stated this:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Matt 10: 34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. 39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his dlife for my sake shall find it. 40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. 41 He that areceiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s breward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward. 42 And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.

Thanks for the link Dale! I totally agree with you about Fanny Alger ~ but I don't believe JS was an adulterer at all.

1787 The Northwest Ordinance: Article III. Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged. this is an exerp out of our founding father's statements~ outlining carefully, their intent for religion to be a part of our governemtent and education ~ Judges, who are not even elected, and are sitting in these positions for life, are making up new laws, and new constitutional mandates which have nothing to do with the original constitution. My questions: Do we really have a constitution, or a Judge ruling our governement and rights? Why are we allowing them to have this kind of power?