ldsister

Eh. Earthquakes aren't the same thing as saying, "You guys, go out and kill everyone, including the babies." For one thing, there were survivors, based on their righteousness. For another, natural disasters are tragic. Slaughter is horrific. I can believe in a God that allows and even causes tragedy. I don't believe in a God of horror. It also kind of sounds like you're trying to shame me out of my opinion by equating me with being a bad, disobedient Mormon if I don't take all aspects of the Bible literally. You might consider that even our own AoF puts a caveat on the complete literalness of the Bible: "As far as it is translated correctly." Additionally, JS has said that parts of the Apocrypha are true and instructive, so there's a lot more grey area with the OT than w/ the other standard works. Being aware of that grey area doesn't make me a commandment-picker.

Funny thing--I'm not even a liberal. I hate Trump because of his character.

No, it's not a breach of spiritual etiquette, and even if it had been, that door was blown WIDE THE HECK OPEN by one of the church's most prominent women praying at a Trump rally. You wanna talk about taking a public stand--that one was colossal. A choir member quitting is small potatoes compared to that.

Sorry. My antecedent was unclear. By "they" I mean LDS supporters of Trump, not the Motab. I was troubled when LDS supporters of Trump made their support publicly known. I was, in fact, DEEPLY troubled when Beck prayed at the Trump rally (shudder), but I didn't accuse her of grandstanding or having underhanded motives. In that same vein of respect, Trump supporters should not now turn around and accuse this choir member and other Mormons who are troubled by the choir's participation of grandstanding and whining and having underhanded motives. She's standing up for what she believes in, just like Beck did. We can't call each other names or accuse each other of nastiness for being public about our beliefs.

No, I'm saying that those wouldn't be the actions of a righteous man of God. I get that there are other interpretations, so I moved on to other instances that are less subjective and that I also can't take literally, like God's commands to kill entire nations. And as I said before, I know I'm not going to convince anyone. Just explaining why I don't take the whole OT literally.

Could be, but the Bible specifically says that a lot of those things WERE ordered by God. Those would be the parts that I don't take literally.

I'm sure some were troubled, but that's okay. I was troubled when they openly voiced their support for Trump, but their right to do so without being accused of grandstanding remained intact, just as the singer's right to quit and openly announce why without being accused of underhanded motives should also remain intact.

Because adoption wasn't a thing? And what about the cattle? Did the cattle need to be spared from depravity too? What about the small children of the priest who hid the idol? What great good was done by stoning them to death? Nope. I just can't take it literally, or if those things really did happen, they weren't ordered by God.

I can see your argument that God didn't tell the prophet to allow it. What about all the women and children that God told the Israelites to kill? Do you take that literally?

She didn't piggy-back anything. She had a social opinion, she acted on it, and she expressed it to others. Unless I see evidence of her trying to capitalize on this in an unworthy way, then what she's doing is activism, not self-interested pandering. Imagine if Lincoln had been like, "I don't want to give the impression that all Kentuckians are opposed to slavery, so I'm going to quietly not own slaves myself, but I'm not going to make a big announcement about it." If you have an opinion about morality, you stand up for it. Now, if she starts selling t-shirts, we can talk again.

If I understood his grounds for finding Obama a vile, repugnant person (even if I didn't agree with his grounds), then yes, I would have.

Regrettably, it is. Judges 20:5-6. (I double-checked. The woman was a concubine. The daughters situation was Job.)

It's awesome that the girl is apologizing. She can never undo the harm she did, but it's still better to apologize than not. I'm so sad that the mom was hurt. I'd say she deserves what all her daughters' victims deserve: love and compassion and support. As for why people said it, I suppose it's because there comes a point where you realize you either tell the truth or you're complicit in the lie. One person got sick of being part of the lie, and once that part of the dam broke, all the other waters rushed in. My husband had an absolutely vile bully as his deacon president, and if someone started praising him (which they wouldn't because he turned into a washed-out loser of an ex-con), there'd be a whole bunch of truth-telling coming out of our mouths.

If I want to continue to believe in a God of love, then no, I can't take the story about the servant of God who shoved his daughter (or was it his wife?) out of the house, let her be raped to death on the front porch, and then cut her up and mailed her body parts to his allies as a literal story.

And I appreciate that she's sending that message, since it is accurate. Many members of the church ARE reticent about MoTab performing for Trump. Her protest speaks for thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of Mormons.

I don't think this is a peacemaking move. At best, he's exploiting the church's position of political neutrality in order to make it look like the Mormons are okay with him after all. At worst, he's exploiting the church's position of political neutrality to get back at all the Mormons who are revolted by everything about him. I don't blame the choir for agreeing to sing. If you have a policy of picking up any animal that asks for a ride, you have to say yes, even to the snake. That doesn't stop the bile from rising up your throat when the snake slithers up your palm, though.

Please see a doctor. What you're describing sounds like clinical depression, like what Holland discussed in Like a Broken Vessel. You may be amazed at how much you can be healed through a qualified professional and some medication. When Holland says, " Our Father in Heaven expects us to use all of the marvelous gifts He has provided in this glorious dispensation," he is talking about modern medicine and contemporary therapy methods. Seek qualified, professional help from a source you trust. (Try LDS therapies.)

I agree. I'd also add that it's for the same reason that we're not too horribly squeamish about the Israelites slaughtering, well, everybody at God's behest but we'd be really uncomfortable if the Mountain Meadows Massacre were standard practice among the early saints.

Part of activism is taking a public stand. Imagine if MLK had quietly kept his feelings to himself and not made waves. I understand why the church is holding firm on its position of political neutrality and singing at any inauguration they're invited to. I also understand why someone would feel that there was no way in the world they could celebrate someone like Mr. Trump AND would want to make their opposition publicly known.

Success is not a manifestation of righteousness. One of the most successful men I know is one who left the church years ago and contentedly spends his Sundays golfing and being glad he's not wasting his money on tithing anymore. One of the poorest men I know (a teacher) is faithful on a Lehi-like level. However, even though wealth does not equal righteousness, you should seriously consider whether you and your fiance have the same life vision. A teacher's salary has, in my observation, almost universally meant a working mother (I do not know of a single family that gets by on a teacher's salary) and/or restrictions on the number of kids they have, and limited opportunities for their children. That's in addition to all the obvious things--old cars, small, older homes, limited vacations, etc. If you and your fiance agree that this is the lifestyle you want, then go for it. If not, then reconsider how this is going to go. Just don't use the argument that wealth equals God's favor. That's not accurate.

"Ladies, would any of you say there is a similar effect for you?" Nope. I find these findings troubling because to me, they cast religious belief in the light of a hormone-driven belief rather than something based on reality.

I never would have thought of that, but it's brilliant! I hear booze is excellent for that as well. Plus, then you get a whole new group of friends whom you only know by first name and so have no other social obligations attached to them!

Re: the frugal living ideas--thanks for the insights. We already do everything listed thus far, but if you have any other effective ideas, I'm always open to new methods of frugality.

Thanks for all your insights. The one thing I'm confused about is the carrot conversation. It was my understanding that carrots are things we want, so I'm not sure how donating plasma is a carrot. Wouldn't it be the hook one would use to grab the carrot? Thinking that donating plasma will change my life would be ridiculous to the point of delusion. I just ran the numbers on karate lessons and said, "Oh. I know how to make that happen." If there are other ways to make fifty bucks that a) require NO up front investment b) require NO commitment c) require NO additional training d) take only 4.5 hours per week and e) are entirely on my own schedule, I would love to hear them. Please remember, I am NOT looking for a career. I AM A MOTHER. I'm looking for an immediate and temporary way to make a couple extra hundred bucks. Either way, thanks for the thoughts and input.

I absolutely agree that he's not going to be a piano genius, FOR SURE! I'm more interested in the long-term effects on his brain development. I've read enough studies to be convinced that music education is good for children's neurology even if they're not musically gifted. Somehow, I must give the impression that I think my super-magical unicorn children deserve special treats and that the world should pay for them. I'm just a mom who has read the neurological research and thinks her kids would benefit from music and karate lessons and is trying to find a way to afford them.