wenglund

This explains it rather well: WiKi: Torah Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Perhaps you should put a "This is an Advertisement" notice on each of your threads? Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Of course you don't see it that way. You can't see it that way. Even though things have been logically shown you every which way from Sunday, you haven't and will never see them, and yet you blindly assume it is because people are refusing to show you. Even more important, you will never get that you have a blind spot because you are convinced you see perfectly and better than people with authoritative sight. This is what is know as double blind (metaphorically speaking) Around and around it has and will yet go until people recognize the futility of interacting with you and leave you to your own false and blind perceptions. Goodbye not-so-Merry-go Round. Thanks, -Wade Englund-

It is because they are using the wrong set of eyes and instruments. Physical eyes, even when enhanced by reading glasses or microscopes or telescopes, will not be able to see spiritual things even when they are abundantly right before them. Christ explained this when visited by Nicodemus. (Jn 3) I think you can guess my answer from what I said above. Thanks, -Wade Englund-

From the perspective of a blind man, particularly a blind man who thinks he can see and see better than those with authoritative sight, invariably nobody has, nor can they show him a thing different than how he already "sees" it. He can't "see" it any other way. So, no, in your own way you aren't wrong. How could you be? However, when this becomes apparent to many of us who have interacted with you, the only civil thing to do is step away from the counterproductive exchanges and leave you to "see it" as you invariably will. Again, all the best to you. Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Yes, which unwittingly illustrates that you keep missing the key, and perhaps you always will..Enough said. Thanks, -Wade Englund-

You completely missed the key. Thanks, -wade Englund-

Wrong. No. The key is you not getting what I have said. Until you do....All the best to you. However, to answer your question, yes. Thankis, -Wade Englund-

Taking a somewhat different tack from @Jane_Doe, I would say that it isn't our place to judge. That will be between you and the God you currently do'n't believe in. He will know your heart and deeds, and will judge you based on what light you have been given and whether you have chosen darkness over that light. It is likely that you will receive in heaven or hell exactly like what you want on earth. If you want a godless and childless eternal existence, there is a kingdom prepared for you. I don't know why you would want to settle for so little when there is so much possible to you, but that is the way of personal agency. Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Like I said, some people are easily confused. Yes, we are actually and currently in "the telestial kingdom" on earth. Some of us are also actually and currently in the "terrestrial kingdom" on earth, while still others are actually and currently in the "celestial kingdom" on earth. However, those kingdoms on earth are not the same as those in heaven. Those kingdoms that exist in mortality are not the same kingdoms of immortality. Resurrected bodies and kingdoms are differentiated from the non-resurrected kingdoms. However, as Paul explains in 1 Cor.15, while the bodies in the earthly kingdoms are not the same as the bodies in the heavenly kingdoms. the bodies (seeds) which are sown within the respective earthly kingdoms portend and symbolize respectively that which will be resurrected in the heavenly kingdoms. The seeds sown unto the telestial kingdoms on earth will die and be resurrected unto the Telestial kingdom and glory of heaven, symbolized by the stars. The seeds sown unto the terrestrial kingdom on earth will die and be resurrected unto Terrestrial kingdom and gory of heaven, symbolized by the moon. And, the seeds sown unto celestial kingdom on earth will die and be resurrected unto Celestial kingdom and glory of heaven. In short, it is a seemingly small but significant point, don't conflate the earthly and mortal telestial, terrestrial, and celestial kingdoms with the heavenly resurrected Telestial, Terrestrial and Celestial kingdoms. The kingdoms in 1 Cor 15, and D&C 88, and D&C 76, are clearly ("pure doctrine") after death and pertain to the RESURRECTION. And, while the endowment does depicts these kingdoms as steps of descending and ascending through the plan of progression, nevertheless, as an ordinance, like other ordinances ON EARTH, it is symbolic and preparatory and anticipatory of what is to come in the afterlife of HEAVEN.--i.e. the RESURRECTION. You either get this, or you don't. If you don't, that is up to you, but it renders further discussion with you unproductive. Thanks, -Wade Enlgund-

In @Rob Osborn 's defense, It can sometimes be confusing to distinguish the symbolic from the actual (i.e. the symbol, itself and that to which the symbol points). For example, much of Israel through the ages may not have been aware that animal sacrifice was an ordinance that was symbolic and pointed in anticipation to the actual and final atoning sacrifice of Christ. Even today, many Christians, and some LDS, may not be aware that baptism is also an ordinance that is symbolic and points, among several things, in anticipation to the burial and raising up of the body through the resurrection. As Elder Oaks explains, when we are baptized and partake of the sacrament, :"we do not witness that we take upon us the name of Jesus Christ. We witness that we are willing to do so. (See D&C 20:77.) The fact that we only witness to our willingness suggests that something else must happen before we actually take that sacred name upon us in the most important sense." Baptism is symbolic and points to when we actually take upon us the name of Christ. Being born of the water through baptism, and being born of the spirit through the Gift of the Holy Ghost, are both ordinances performed on earth and during mortality which are symbolic of the actual rebirth and quickening in heaven and unto immortality and eternal life. (see HERE) Certain temple ordinances on earth are also symbolic and point to the actual coronation in heaven Likewise, certain saints may be unaware that the earth, today, and those who dwell thereon, may rightly be viewed symbolically as telestial and terrestrial and celestial, though in truth they point to the actual kingdoms of the resurrection. (see the scriptures you referenced above.) Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Is there a reason it cant mean both--particularly given the remorse and recompense phase of the repentance process? Thanks, -Wade Engulnd-

I take back everything I have said, apologize for what you see as insults, and freely admit that I was wrong, and if you would like, I will delete all my posts on this thread. Given that with each exchange, with a person I generally respect, things only got worse when the intent was that they get better, I figured it best that I stop digging the hole deeper. Again, I apologize, and hope all the best for you with the prayer situation and anything else the Lord see fit. That, truly and for sure is the last I will say on the matter. Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Except that there are differences in credibility and expertise if not authoritative inspiration. Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Stephen Smoot of Book of Mormon Central has some interesting points to make on the subject: The points are underscored by a staff member of BoMC: Where Did the Book of Mormon Happen? Thanks, -Wade Englund-

By way of clarification and to disabuse false accusations, as usual, you are once again in error. I wasn't defending the Brethren or the Church, nor did I assume you are close to apostasy. The thoughts never crossed my mind until you falsely assumed and expressed them. These are figments of your irrational mind. Rather, what I repeatedly intimated was that it is you, and not the Brethren or anyone else who wasn't making sense, particularly given your inability to see the sense that was reasonably presented to you, and this also in light of a multitude of errors you have made in this thread alone.. I have capitalized and bolded words to help you see through the blindness, but even that was repeatedly misunderstood. And, I have attempted to address your concerns politely until you got snippy and condescending, and so I treated you in-kind. In shorty, and reproving betimes, you have a glaring and seemingly intractable blind spot to your own intellectual limitations and propensity for mistakes. Your pride is getting in the way of productive discourse, and it causes you to mistakenly assume that the problem (including alleged "insults") is with others rather than yourself. Again, do yourself and others a favor and get a self-introspective clue--though I won't hold my breath. Some people you just can't reach. Aside from that, I am sure you. like many of us, are a very intelligent, reasonable, faithful, spiritual, and lovely persons who ultimately wishes to do good and to progress and further the kingdom of God.. Now, for sure, that is the last I will say on the matter, let come what may. Thanks, -Wade Englund-

For those interested, while I will say no more on the matter myself, I will let the Brethren speak for themselves sinse they need no defending whether some of us see the sense of what they say and do or not. Here is their explanation for the changes to the Sunday Meeting Schedule and related Items: Changes Help Balance Gospel Instruction at Home and at Church Thanks, -Wade Englund-.

Actually, one of the reasons the Elders and High Priest were recently consolidated into one quorum was to lighten the load of the Bishop, shifting, to an extent, many of the former responsibilities to the Elders Quorum, leaving the Bishop to focus more on the youth. This was suggested in the the First Presidency announcement and subsequent talks by General Authorities. Here is a brief snippet. "“These adjustments will help elders quorums and Relief Societies harmonize their work,” said Elder Rasband. “They will also simplify the quorum’s coordination with the bishopric and ward council. And they allow the bishop to delegate more responsibilities to the elders quorum and Relief Society presidents so the bishop and his counselors can focus on their primary duties—particularly presiding over the young women, and the young men who bear the Aaronic Priesthood.” (see HERE) Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Interesting. I don't recall Joseph mentioning a vision he had where, as with Moses, he was shown the "world and the ends thereof." However, he did suggest something along the lines that if mankind could see such things, particularly the afterlife, they would kill themselves to get there--which suggest to me that he had a good sense of the mind blowing power of such an experience. Indeed, the fact that Joseph understood Oliver's condition, and hinted at why he wasn't then experiencing the same, also suggest to me that Joseph, too, had previously undergone that same condition. Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Wrong. To my way of thinking , one's spiritual experience involves the mind as well as the heart, including one's opinion. Wrong again (at least you are consistent). I posted this earlier in the thread (see the quote below) and pointed you to it several times Now, whether you see the sense of it or not, a reasonable explanation was in fact given. And, if you could get over yourself, and humbly open your mind to the distinct probability that it is you, and not the Brethren and most of the members, who has a problem making sense in this case (please note each of the many times where I have pointed out how your thinking has been in error on this thread alone), we would all be the better for it. Either way, this is the last I will say on the matter, dudette. With all that has been reasonably said, it no longer matters whether YOU get it or not, the Church will continue to move forward. To each their own. Thanks, -Wade Englund-

There are 55 scriptures in our canon where the word "salt" appears. (see HERE) One that I find most interesting comes at the end of a poetic treatise on heaven and hell, and states: "For everyone shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice salted with salt." (Mk 9:49--bold mine) This is followed by the familiar passage: "Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith shall ye season it?" (vs 50) The next sentence reads: "Have salt in yourself, and have peace one with another." (ibid) In these two verses there appears to be at least four different symbolic meanings for salt. Fascinating. Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Your inability to understand why, is part of the reason that the only intelligent thing to do at this point is to say, "bye,! and avoid the bait to inevitably wasting more time. Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I will repay your alleged courtesy by politely and graciously answering, "bye." No more time wasted. Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Getting back to productive interactions, I found on another thread where @mikbone brought up the biblical symbol of salt. In the context of that thread, salt was considered from the standpoint of its taste (savor). However, while researching that topic, I discovered that there are a number of other biblical uses for salt, and thus layers of symbolic meaning. According to Wikipedia, "The role of salt in the Bible is relevant to understanding Hebrew society during the Old Testament and New Testament periods. Salt is a necessity of life and was a mineral that was used since ancient times in many cultures as a seasoning, a preservative, a disinfectant, a component of ceremonial offerings, and as a unit of exchange. The Bible contains numerous references to salt. In various contexts, it is used metaphorically to signify permanence, loyalty, durability, fidelity, usefulness,value, and purification." The Easton Bible Dictionary has similar things to say, and adds: "A "covenant of salt" ( Numbers 18:19 ; 2 Chr 13:5 ) was a covenant of perpetual obligation. New-born children were rubbed with salt ( Ezekiel 16:4 ). Disciples are likened unto salt, with reference to its cleansing and preserving uses ( Matthew 5:13 ). When Abimelech took the city of Shechem, he sowed the place with salt, that it might always remain a barren soil ( Judges 9:45 ). " Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I deeply respect and value what you learned about the law of sacrifice. This having been said, like some kids, you know so much about things that you are unaware of just how little you do know--even when it is pointed out to you this way and that that you don't. Mary Poppins said it best: "...there’s no one so hard to teach as the child who knows everything.” If you did read the articles, you did so with your eyes wide shut, or you are seriously lacking in comprehension. Either way, we are back to the same old invariable conclusion. It is a waste of time trying to give you a hand up in light and understanding. Bye. Thanks, -Wade Englund-